custom subspace covid masks.

[kthx]

This is generally true for those who are already insured in the US, but isn't true for those who are uninsured. (That's around 10-15%. That number also doesn't include those who only have catastrophic coverage with deductibles of several thousand dollars, essentially useless for anything but treating a serious disease, treatment after a car accident, etc.)

Any US plan would obviously still allow the well-to-do to receive care privately, much like in the UK. There are a lot of wealthy people in the US and many private hospitals would stand to make a killing by treating them.

Getting sick in the US is a risk even with health insurance. You can have decent coverage but still be bankrupted by procedures that cost tens of thousands of dollars or more, but which insurance only covers a percentage of. In some cases that percentage is as low as 10%.

Also, there are socialized and semi-socialized systems that function quite well. In Japan I never had to wait for procedures, and it was always extremely affordable, even when running a battery of tests. I never paid more than $25 and never waited more than a few days. Dental was the same -- all covered except for cosmetic work. So to say that the options are "things as they are" or "wait 6 months for treatment" is not correct. (Though I think knowing the US govt, we'd see the long wait times.) That's still probably preferable to living in constant fear that any moment you could lose everything you own because of a medical procedure.

Trying to compare s small homogeneous society or country to a country like the US when it comes to government healthcare is silly in it's own right. Prople always fail to grasp the extra cost of population and logistics in the equation. People also fail to see that government ran healthcare stifles innovation. The US leads the world by a large margin on the creation of new medicine largely because it is still profitable to do so here. Most countries with socialized medicine are parasites that buy these drugs at cost while not having to pay out for the extensive testing and marketing of said drugs. And eventually like social security it turns into a legalized ponzi scheme where young people are forced to pay a large percentage of their income to a health care system that they by and large won't need unless they live long enough to reap the benefits of it. It also opens the door for the government to take more control over its citizens lives due to the fact that if you have an unhealthy lifestyle you will cost more to take care of. Too much sodium on your blood test, choose to drink or smoke, are overweight, you need to pay more taxes to cover your lifestyle. And you might not think that's. Big deal but what if it gets more personal than that Jessup? Being trans increases likelihood of committing suicide and comes with increased medical costs, being in the gay community risks a higher chance of contracting aids or other STDs. Black people have a higher chance to have high blood pressure due to genetics and cultural diet. Are you ok with the government having to force higher taxes on certain populations over these legitimate issues? Are you ok with the government telling you that you can't continue to live a certain lifestyle because it's economically unfeasible? These are just a few of the litany of issues that giving control of your healthcare freedoms bring about. Ask veterans if the VA provides quality care with reasonable wait times for operations.

[qan]

I don't disagree with it, just saying u get a shitter service as someone from a country with healthcare for all.

This is generally true for those who are already insured in the US, but isn't true for those who are uninsured. (That's around 10-15%. That number also doesn't include those who only have catastrophic coverage with deductibles of several thousand dollars, essentially useless for anything but treating a serious disease, treatment after a car accident, etc.)

Any US plan would obviously still allow the well-to-do to receive care privately, much like in the UK. There are a lot of wealthy people in the US and many private hospitals would stand to make a killing by treating them.

Getting sick in the US is a risk even with health insurance. You can have decent coverage but still be bankrupted by procedures that cost tens of thousands of dollars or more, but which insurance only covers a percentage of. In some cases that percentage is as low as 10%.

Also, there are socialized and semi-socialized systems that function quite well. In Japan I never had to wait for procedures, and it was always extremely affordable, even when running a battery of tests. I never paid more than $25 and never waited more than a few days. Dental was the same -- all covered except for cosmetic work. So to say that the options are "things as they are" or "wait 6 months for treatment" is not correct. (Though I think knowing the US govt, we'd see the long wait times.) That's still probably preferable to living in constant fear that any moment you could lose everything you own because of a medical procedure.

[Rab]

I don't disagree with it, just saying u get a shitter service as someone from a country with healthcare for all.

[Jessup]

I see no reason anyone can disagree with healthcare for all.. It is CHEAPER,it is moral, it is what EVERY "first world" country does. Did you see the guy who got a $1150689.06 bill who had covid. WTF is that? lol. I'd rather have some access to health care than none at all. It is completely indefensible to support this system as it is now in USA. The police and military get like way over half the budget on federal and state level tax spending while the people get a small pittance. I have dealt with cancer without health insurance and was literally left for years unable to get any treatment until it advanced. I can't follow your logic at all eph when you yourself are benefitting from a public option for dialysis. This issue has NOTHING to do with "freedom". It has to do with the welfare of the citizens of the country. People are dying from lack of healthcare. People are being held hostage with ridiculous insurance policies that STILL bankrupt them. People are homeless because of medical debt in huge numbers. People don't even usually get dental care through their insurance policies which is some of the most basic services that save lives. Bad teeth are proven to be leading causes of heart disease and strokes and sepsis. It really baffles me how anyone can say too bad you get nothing as they are sick and dying in the richest country in the world. The priorities need to be changed in this country. ALL LIVES MATTER and no lives matter if black lives don't matter!

[Ephemeral]

Anyone in the US who wants free healthcare for all ought to go on dialysis. If you need dialysis, then you automatically get it for free. It is a total nightmare. So is the VA (another free US healthcare system). Dialysis patients make up only 1% of the Medicare population but consume 7% of the total MediCare money each year. This kind of math does not work if you expand it to include all other kinds of illnesses and treatments. Those who want ‘free healthcare’ never address this problem.

Having the US government run something is always a disaster. Can anyone name a single US system which the government runs that is successful? The postal system? The IRS? Help me here, name one thing that the government runs that is working great. How is Medicare working? (I am on it and it sucks). How about Disability? Anyone here every try to work with these people? I have and it is another nightmare.

Additionally, why is the suggestion to switch the entire country over to free healthcare all at once? If free healthcare is a great idea then start with a smaller group. I suggest that they start with the VA, fix it and make it work to show everyone how great it will work.

Politicians in Washington have some of the lowest public opinion ratings that a group can have. Yet some people advocate that we give them more power and more of our money. That makes no sense to me.
Eph

[Rab]

In the UK we have healthcare for all. What happens in reality is it takes 2 months to see a GP, then 6 months or more for a referral if needed. Emergency stuff is good tho, they'll fix broken bones etc no problem. I have private medical through work and end up using that whenever possible, small print on it is a nightmare.

[Ephemeral]

I respect your experiences a lot, Eph. But, as deep as your experiences are, they are only one persons perspective.

No shit, this is why I started my post with, "Here is the perspective from my chair..." The context of my entire post was 'this is my opinion' and not an 'argument' so your reply is inane.

Health Care for all! ...

The following is my opinion.
Anyone can donate their income and time to giving to others. So please feel free to donate your income to those whom you feel need it.

The USA is a country which is based upon personal freedoms. This includes financial freedom and the ability to do with my income as I see fit. You cannot legislate morality. If folks like yourself feel you should be paying for everyone else to get health benefits, then p[lease donate your income but stop trying to control other people's freedoms.

Lastly, the issue of division is not Trump (but I agree that he is certainly trolling those who are driving the division and hatred). The division is being driven by the media and identity politics and was started years before Trump was even in the picture. Identity politics is the opposite of what the US should be about; that we all all born equal. 'I am black and therefore I am a victim.' 'I am trans therefore I am a victim.' I am a old white guy but am being kept alive by machine. So fucking what? I am a victim but I do not feel the need to walk around whining about it.

I lived through the 1960s and I can say that this country has made incredible progress over the decades. Yet over the last 10-15 years we are going in the wrong direction as the media and others continue to drive division. Consider the name 'Progressive'; 'we are progressive and the rest of you are not' is what the name means to a lot of people. The name itself drives division.

We need to pull our heads out of our asses and stop with this tribal crap. Stop trying to force other people to think a certain way. Enjoy our freedoms including being allowed to think as you wish and run your life as you you want to. If there is an injustice, get a lawyer and sue someone. Knockings over statues is moronic. If anyone is truly concerned about racial inequities then stop buying and supporting Apple. You know, the company who is supporting China and their slavery of over 1 million Uyghur Muslims. But I guess it is easier to knock over a statue then it is to give up your iPhone.

In my opinion 'woke' lip service and virtual signaling is only appeasing people who support identity politics and want division. Anyone with an IQ over 80 can see right through a company like FaceBook donating $10M toward 'Ending Racial Injustice' when only 4% of their work force is black (even worse only 1% of those are technical jobs). If people wanted REAL and significant racial change, they would go apply pressure to Facebook to address their racial inequalities. You know, something that has a chance at actually helping blacks.

But the biggest issue is the media and their effort to make everything binary and then drive division. Here is a link to an older article "The Media’s 10 Rules of Hate" from a reporter offering an opinion on his own industry. https://washingtonspectator.org/taibbi-10rulesofhate/

Eph

[Jessup]

See right wingers spewing hate again. So sad. This is why there is so much divisiveness. They lie, cheat and repress by any means necessary and do stupid things like politicize mask wearing in a goddang pandemic. Trump wore a mask for the first time today ever lol. What a moron. Better late than never but jesus what a douche.

[Rab]

and by less informed you mean less brainwashed, fuck off back to twitter ty.

[ronaldinho]

Who's talking

[Jessup]

Black people supportive of the LGBT movement named BLM are stupid

:laugh::laugh::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::lau gh4::laugh::laugh:

Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Could you be any more less informed? :rolleyes4::rolleyes4::rolleyes4::rolleyes4::rolle yes4:

[ronaldinho]

Great post qan, despite that I feel concerned by your statement. Because I absolutely hate leftists and reject every one of them. In France media personalities cried on live TV when Trump got elected, for real. The public crying with them, lol. It was more moderate among the people but still Trump is seen as evil as Hitler here (not that I don't like it you know right ahahah). Divide and conquer, as the old adage goes. Mission accomplished. Yes it is.

Black people supportive of the LGBT movement named BLM are stupid, all have on common to hate Trump. https://dailycaller.com/2020/07/07/j...this-november/ Ex-Democrat Vernon Jones knows.
Let's not talk about the white ones, the worse part of humanity.

[Jessup]

Health Care for all! This barbaric system is unacceptable in the usa. Literally in states like Florida the #1 reason for homelessness is medical debt. Healthcare for profit using middle man insurance companies are unnecessary and plain evil making our costs higher than ALL of the rest of the worlds.

Covid is dangerous obviously as I know 5 people who died from it the youngest being 36. Real friends try and correct misguided thought processes. I know Trump supporters and they always say the dumbest stuff and test my patience. Can I still be friends with them though? Sure... but it DOES effect my overall opinion of them in the long run?.. yes.. Belief systems DO play a part in friendship. Politics is like religion. An often unspoken permeation that will effect those around them.

These times are trying and policy makers are being more and more divisive. The fragility of the USA system is exposed and amplified because of Covid and Trump actively playing off of the divisions. I focus on him and the republicans as they are the ones in power currently and will bring as much fire to the dems when this idiot Biden wins. Silence is COMPLICITY in these troubling times. Stand up to injustice !!

Stop the wars/ military industrial complex. Stop the prison industrial system. Defund the police with sensible budget cuts. Police need retraining and accountability and input independent review boards for misconduct. Karens need fines for improperly using 911. I could say so much more sigh.. Social equality is the goal with more compassion for ALL on EVERY SIDE. :nice:

[Rab]

Seeing as we're broadly in agreement, can we remove all the political bullshit from TW now?

[paradise!]

I respect your experiences a lot, Eph. But, as deep as your experiences are, they are only one persons perspective.

You should first be aware that your arguments are interestingly fallacious (look up: reification OR the fallacy of misplaced concreteness). Your arguments and abstractions use definitions (like "immunocompromised" and "pre-existing") that are themselves abstractions. If we use traditional definitions of pre-existing conditions, then you do realize a large amount of the US is at risk? Obesity, diabetes, even asthma can be fit into the box of pre-existing conditions and are reported as such in COVID-related deaths.

People seem to think because they don't have AIDS or some chronic condition then they don't have a pre-existing condition. No. Your obesity is your pre-existing condition. Your diabetes is too. Oh you have an inhaler you use from time to time? You too. Oh you have psoriasis and you take some meds for it? You too. I don't think you realize how many people fit into this box of immunocompromised. You know people with moderate asthma taking meds fall into this category too?