Hey! They're talking about us!

[Fit of Rage]

Well sure Golden. That's what draws in the pubbers, but its those events, TWD and such that retain a lot of players. I know I've tried playing several zones and the subevents just didn't seem too fun. Pub was okay but after that I just got bored. Like Epi said on the other thread, there's almost ALWAYS something to do in TW.

[Epinephrine]

Actually technically I'd agree with the argument that TW is a newbie zone in terms of not training players to learn how to play Subspace properly, and that TW players in general would do worse than SVS players in eachother's zones.

What do I mean by not training for Subspace properly? Subspace IS many different zones, not just Trench Wars. Any SVS player who is decent will tell you that popping into any other zone and winning is relatively easy. Just as most TW players can probably own in EG if they are decent in TW warbirds, SVS players can go into virtually any zone that isn't too weird and do quite well for themselves.

As proof, many of the very best players in TW are accomplished SVS players, and started there themselves. Meanwhile with the exception of Banzi and FF (easily some of the best locally produced players we have) no TW player that I know of has battled to the upper echelons of Pro League, although I do admit the dynamics of that zone make it hard to do.

As for time to master? Any of the truely great TW players (from any origin) can tell you that TW isn't really that hard to master. Most of the best players became the best players after a relatively short period in the zone. Of course aspects such as learning teamwork, building play confidence, and learning not to choke aren't TW specific, and are more life skills, and these can of course affect a player's progess in the zone. As the dueling vs basing argument has shown us, dueling players can easily move to basing as dominating individual players, although the teaming aspect (which obviously requires time and effort of up to 8 people) is harder to do. In summery, TW is easy to master, and all the sub-arenas of TW and all it's little games are easy to learn and do good in and in a relatively short time.

How about SVS? SVS takes a long time to really learn. It'll probably take you a few months just to be decent in it, and up to a year of regular play (instead of crazy non-stop play) to enter the upper levels unless you are a born natural. SVS has skills which take years to progress. Dueling in TW is pretty simple and doesn't require much. SVS has finer points on dueling which only the best duelers know, and which I (and most people) didn't even think even after 2 years of SVS and regular dueling success.

Stabwound argues on the thread that the TW terrier in basing is the hardest ship because you cannot screw up. I'd like to point out that in the top SVS games, especially in Pro League, scores in even championship games have been known to be as low as 1-0 or 3-2. On a 4on4 context, one death makes a hell of a lot more difference than terriering in TW. The pressure is surely comparable, so TW is not that unique.

What am I trying to say here? I'm trying to say flat out that TW is not a hard zone to play in, and not a hard zone to master. I'm going to say that TW players are at an intrinsic disadvantage compared to SVS players in other zones. Some of you have mentioned challenging SVS players in TW. Well discounting the SVS players who already play in TW it'd be kinda silly. A more apt challenge would be SVS player vs TW player in every single other zone in Subspace that ISN'T TW. Take average SVS players and average TW players, and team them in other zones, SVS will win hands down (top players don't count as much, as the best players can dominate anywhere, although I bet SVS would still have an advantage).

Does this make TW inferior? God no. TW is the best run zone in all of SS and the only zone that I spend my time playing these days. It's the only zone worth my time and I think that about sums it up.

-Epi

[K2Grey]

You already have svs squad in tw,

Sika - Won pro 2 seasons ago
Domi - in some pro squad or other
Owner i.e. bhang - won pro last season
Raspi - AML player
FieryFire - used to play pro

etc. True much of -F- roster isnt svs, but theres a pretty sizable portion in svs too.

[Kings]

So amny ppl are paying in tw because it is the eziest zone around. One shot, one kill. You own more in here than any other zone. Only a little luck is needed. I, myself, played tw because i was getting my ass kicked in otehr zones.

[Jeansi]

Comapring SVS with TW:
TW = 100 meter run
SVS = 10 000 meter run

running 10 000 meters fast is hard and takes a lot of practise. Sure, they can run 100 meters fast too, but still running 100 meters really really fast is just as hard.

But the relative difference between them would go in the advantage of the long-distance runners.

[Acidmouse]

I have been in Secret since it started just under a different nick along with one or two others that prefer to keep it quiet they play Tw. Alot of snobs in svs tbh.

[Predator Rulez]

We just pwn.. ez :P <3

[MetalKid]

To me, I don't really care about the other zones. So TW isn't training to do well in other zones. So what? To me, TW = Subspace. I never liked the original style of play where one shot didn't kill. Sure, anyone can kill anyone else after a relatively short amount of time, but it takes hella skill to make it so that other people won't be able to kill you. You've never seen people dominate in TWL games so much that they don't die during them. Killing people is not the only part of TW. Dodging is equally as important. Of course, in other zones, you have to dodge more than in TW, but if you get hit, its not a big deal. If you get hit in TW, you're dead.

[Jeansi]

I'd probably visit many other zones if it was possible to switch server without leaving the game. kind of like a ?gozone EG or something.

[tyflyias]

Cool thing about ss forums is polix has everyone on lockdown.

[Twerp]

If you don't like the zone so much suse, then why are you in the forums?

[Squeezer]

Hey Everyone guess what??????? Polix is my cousin....seriously he is