protesting the new settings

[SpiderMage]

No wonder, I totally feel you..
You know, why not make some art at the same time, have you tried out Open Canvas? Painter IX/9, both great programs.

Nope, neither one, Me + mouse = sucky

[bloodzombie]

Oh my holy, it's the return of the ENFORCER's!! (or whatever his name was)

I miss that guy. And sirius too.

[Sarien]

Here you go, BZ. Since you miss him, I figure I'll re-post something to remember him by. Now with semi-improved light balance on the face.

[StarKitty]

I don't post for 1 whole day and i miss out on a all THAT omfg... 45 mins to read...

I don't see the point in arguing here anymore lol everyone has an opinion and it's silly to argue about it..


Lol all this hate and anger Q_('-'Q) kind of funny when you're drunk X_X

At least quinn has the decency to take into account that some people DO get offended by all this aruguing and apologises at the end of his post heh...

uhm anyway imma go get myself owned in game now...


********End Spam********

[boofhead]

I posted in the other thread, but I want to make sure I get across.

I'm a long time weasel user and here's what I think of the new settings.

1.The ship improvements make x's way, way, way, overpowered. They aren't even close to balanced. If it were up to me, I'd change it back to how it was before and maybe just speed it up a tad, if at all.

2. The Rocket removal is lame. Rockets on x's are fun.

3. X-radar on x's is my least favorite change of the bunch. It was way more fun when you could stalk other x's and have to guess where they were. Also, I always had to watch my back, too.

X's were so cool before. It was a ship that was unique from all ships in all continuum zones that I knew of. Don't lameorize them!.

[Stultus]

2. The Rocket removal is lame. Rockets on x's are fun.

Rockets are still available for purchase in safes.

3. X-radar on x's is my least favorite change of the bunch.... Also, I always had to watch my back, too.

Being visible to one more ship 100% of the time should prompt you to watch your back. Half the reason I fly weasel so much is that I enjoy dueling other cloakers.

[Quinn Cairn]

Y'know, you're starting to amuse me with attempting to evaluate me psychologically. Angry? I was never angry in any post so you can end that right there. That and you saying I am "personally attacking you", in my opinion anyone who says levis/weasels are unbalanced has a flawed or stupid opinion. Maybe stupid is the wrong word, but flawed is definate.

"Flawed" is preferred in a civil discourse over the more juvenile "stupid". So, let's not let it degrade into the uncivilized.

Now, you also went on to say "respond to my actual words", take a lil time to practice what you preach... because:

Where did I say you were advocating removing just cloak in any of my posts? I gave an example, note and EXAMPLE of what weasel would be like without cloak and stealth, that without either of those things they would be fully useless.

I misread.

I never said strays were a unique hazard for weasels, for unique implies that they are the only ones that have to worry. Yes all ships have to worry about stray, but stray is more deadly to a weasel than a warbird because of energy differences and recharge rates.

I don't remember saying you did. I was merely pointing out that using strays as a hardship for weasels and that it therefore makes it more understandable for them to have Cloak + Stealth, is not adequate. In effect, dismissing that argument and giving my reasoning.

Lancs, warbirds, spiders and levis are all at the mercy of weasels, ok and? Javs, spiders, terrs, lancs, levis and sharks are all at the mercy of warbirds, all you need is enough distance and manueverability and any ship can die to the hands of a warbird. So far, your only arguement is still only "weasels can cloak/stealth with no penalty so I can't see them so it's not fair". There are some games in this world that want some opponents to be blind to certain things...

Actually no. Javs, terrs, lancs, levis, and sharks are not at the mercy of warbirds. Each ship can see the wb threat coming and take appropriate action. That action may not always work but it doesn't always fail. The ability to take such action by definition means that those ships are not at the mercy of the warbird. And Spiders are defanitely not at the mercy of warbirds. I would argue that if everything else is equal, Spiders have an advantage over the wb. Though the wb is not at the mercy of Spiders since wbs can take appropriate action.

As far as my only argument being cloak/stealth is like say my only argument is invincibilty. It may be the only argument but it is a good one. Similarly, I can boil your arguments, like you did mine, to only one as well: cloak/stealth with no penalty is fair. However, that's beside the point, I wouldn't say that it's my only argument, but It's my main point. Like the main point of both candidates for President is, "I'm better than the other guy." They then go on to present arguments as to why. My main point is that cloak/stealth with no penalty is not fair but I do present arguments(plural) as to why. But nice try anyway.

Another thing, why do you keep bringing up other games when it is TW we are discussing.

And ok, Lev-Terr, insane speed with insane power, unbalanced, but we are talking about single ships, not union of ships. Because Lanc-Terr is deadly, so is Warbird-Terr, Shark-Terr, Spider-Terr... Levi in itself is not unbalanced

Are you saying that the Lanc-Terr, WB-Terr, Shark-Terr, and Spid-Terr are just as powerful as the Levi-Terr? If you are, there is no point in continuing this discussion.

Correct me if 'm wrong... but isn't the whole idea of cloak/stealth to be the weasel's advantage? They are supposed to have that advantage over "blind" opponents, just like Spiders have the rapid fire advantage over a warbird...

There are fair advantages (terr speed, wb maneuverability, spider firing rate, cloak - stealth) and unfair advantages (cloak/stealth with no penalty). I think one ships advantage is balanced by anothers. Terrs may be faster than all other ships but those ships can use one of it's advantages to counteract the terr's speed, like using their firepower. This goes for other ships as well. How can a ship with no X-Radar counteract the cloak/stealth of the weasel? Levi's slower than other ships, but it can leverage it's portals and stealth. What can None-X ships leverage against an opponent they don't even see coming?

You keep pressing with the "unfair" arguement, it's weak 'm sorry. You never touch on my comment about everything is not meant to be fair... so it's ONE ship that has an "unfair" advantage over the main ships, get over it.

I think the same about your argument. So what? If this game is supposed to be balanced, then you can't have unfair advantages. Now, if this game isn't supposed to be balanced then you would be right, everything isn't fair. Now as far as telling me to "get over it", remember it's a public forum in which people can discuss aspects of TW. If this priviledge somehow upsets you, I deeply regret that, though not enough to be persuaded into self-censorship.

And when did I ever say I thought weasels had to uncloak before firing?

3) You stated that Weasels now can fire two shots, well that's all well and good except one thing. You have to be uncloaked to do it, and I think unstealthed as well.

Answer your question?

And the whole "it ruined it for levis in pure pub", first of all, pure pub = no levis, so there's no way pure pub can ruin it for levis since levis don't exist in pure pub.

That was the point. To show that people who like to play levi have dealt with the realities of pure pubs and so can people who like to play weasel.

weasels however ARE in pure pub, and sometimes weasels don't want to have to deal with the deaths caused by levis, yet you seem to want them to be forced to play where levis play...

Just like you seem, to ignore the fact that none-X ships don't want to have to deal with deaths caused by weasels and yet you seem to want them to be forced to play where weasels play..... Hypocrisy anyone?

And one thing you still never, ever touch on save for "going to hide". You keep saying Weasels have no penalty for having cloak and stealth on at the sametime. You never touch the fact that it does not regain any energy, none. In a battle outside the base, a weasel one on one, if it misses, if it is not immediatly killed it has to retreat and recover while the opponent can simply fly off and be left alone.

I don't know what point you are trying to make but each ship can simply fly off. However, I don't know if you know this but a weasel shot doesn't fully deplets the weasel's energy (takes it down to about 400). A recharge of about 350 pts means the weasel is ready to strike again sooner, unlike the recharge of about 900 which it needed previously.

This is how the game has been broken down for Weasels:

Before the new settings this is how it was...
Weasels only had an advantage over Warbirds, Spiders and Lancasters( not counting Levis and it's not that hard to flash x radar on and off, I do it all the time in jav )
Weasels were pretty much easy fodder for Terrs and Javs, and it was no trouble for a Shark to lure a Weasel in and then drop a mine.


The new settings...
Weasels now can put up a decent fight against Terrs while their advantage over Warbirds, Spiders and Lancasters remain the same, so nothing has really changed.

Actually no. The lower energy penalty for the weasel's weapons coupled with the increased manuverabily of the weasel means it can strike more often than it used to. Strike a none-X ship, move out of the way quicker, short recharge, move back quicker, strike again. Instead of the strike a none-X ship, out of the way slower, long recharge, slowly make your way back, strike again, like it was previously. See, things have changed.

When the game was created, long long ago, Weasels were given cloak/stealth to be their advantage over other ships. And for as long as I can remember, and maybe as long as this game has been around, Weasels have never had a penalty for cloak/stealth, so why now?

See above. They're a few reasons why.

[Quinn Cairn]

Also you have to take into account how much their bullet costs in energy, if you put an energy penalty on using cloak and stealth at the same time, how is a weasel going to fire a shot?

The same way the Jav does when it has on X-Radar: quickly. But that's the point, there would then be a downside. Yeah Lancs have multifire, but the bullets are slow, and not instakill. Yeah the Javs have bombs, but they are slow and bounce so it's pretty much a bank shot, then you have to avoid killing your team. And so on and etc for other ships.

Again, this all simply boils down to the arguement "I can't see them and that's not fair".

Boils down the opposite way for you. So what's your point?

One other thing 'd like to know, do you dislike it when some of your teammates are Weasels and score kills for you? Say taking out the Spider that is firing at you or the Warbird that is chasing you?

Interesting question. I look at it this way. I get a job because the Head Man knows my family, I like it. If someone else gets the job because the Head Man knows their family, I don't like it. The point that either situation is unfair and not right remains, even if I benefit in one of the situations.

EDIT: One last thing I thought of... you keep saying that Lancasters, Spiders and Warbirds are all at the mercy of Weasels... what about Warbirds, Javs, Spiders, Terrs and Lancasters all being at the mercy of mines? Mines at the entrance of the flagroom with no one willing to Shark is a bothersome situation, sometimes even more annoying than being killed by a Weasel, especially if the enemy Shark keeps being fed repels and simply pushes you back and relays mines when someone sacrifices a life to clear a mine. What about that advantage Sharks have over every other ship, and that's not just some ships, that's every other ship save for Weasels that can slip inbetween the mines.

It's a threat that can be identified and the proper actions taken. I could simply sacrifice myself, become shark, or duel in open space with WBs and avoid them completely. The mines will not follow me, cloaked and stealthed.

[Quinn Cairn]

I just thought of this in terms of why Weasels should not be banned...

Levis were banned because people disliked their ability as a single unit or Levi-Terr to take an entire flagroom defense down, and keep it shut down.

Weasels have NO such potential, as they can only kill one at a time, and not for very long of a time( I mean consistant chain killing, not flying off and staying in safe areas even after you have full energy ) I myself haven't gotten over 60 bounty in a Weasel as best as I can recall, and Vorf, who I deem a VERY good weasel player, 'm not sure if 've ever seen him get over 60, I may be mistaken. Weasels in my opinion are a "5 minute ship", where your life expectancy is on average only around five minutes, cloaked or not, while other ships can easily out live this. So banning it from pure pub just because it can get a few kills now and then is flawed logic.

Levis and weasels are unique ships that uniquely unbalance the gameplay. Levis do it one way and weasels do it another way. I've already given my reasons as to why I think weasels unbalance the game play.

[Quinn Cairn]

Forgot to apologize to easily offended viewers for posting yet another opinion they may not agree with. Also, I tend to lose interest which means it sometimes takes me awhile to regain enough interest to post again. The amount of time varies.

[Izor]

nice quadruple post newb

[bounty]

LOL quinn joined the forum this month ........just great.

[SpiderMage]

Oy... ok 'm just not going to argue anymore... 'm tired of it.

Weasels are fine the way they are, most people on the forum think so and most people in the pubs think so, that's why there was a growth of Weasel players.

If you don't like it, that's just too bad unfortunately. For all you Warbird, Spider and Lancaster players that can't access X Radar, you have an invisible enemy to fear, and that's just the way it goes, just like the rest of us have the Warbird one shot one kill bullet and Jav bombs to fear.

[Shas'la T'au Kais]

Levs aren't unbalanced, they just move the focus of fighting away from the base.

[GoldenPlums]

So THE ENFORCER got his place at Texan Finishing School.