Javelin limit in PurePub?

[MiKe_HawK]

I know that ship settings and limits in public arenas have been hot button topics these days with the new weasel settings (see thread http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=16146 by T0NE) but may I bring up the consideration of a Javelin limit in PurePub arenas?

I simply love to base (especially as terr) and basing subarenas are hosted often, but in my opinion, not often enough (I'm not demanding more hosting...staff arent machines). Also, I love ?go base but it is hard for anyone to get in every game no matter how well known you are, especially when captains are adding squadies and friends over all others...and I'm simply just too lazy to cap.
So I resort to PurePub but I find myself trying to terrier on a team with 10 javs which leads to me being team killed every 5 minutes. It's just ridiculous.

I know there have been alot of changes to ships and pubs over the last little while but I seriously think that this should be considered. I mean...you've locked an entire ship out of 2 public arenas...I'm just asking for a limit for one ship to be roughly...4. It is seriously something to test out. Similar to how Pure Basing weekend evolved. If anything it is something to consider. As well as a limit for weasels in arenas (but I'll leave that one to T0NE )

[Kolar]

Tone isn't on the right track when it comes to making publics better, the weasel's ability to cloak is not its greatest ability or "unbalanced" ability. For public 0 and 1 I think the bot should start speccing people or start greening engine shut downs for team kills and excessive team killing could alert a mod. I don't like the idea of suplimenting moderators for bots but as first responders to cheating... sure.

[Kim]

Yes there should be a limit.

[Kontrolz]

Easy solution for both ships, which I first mentioned in one of Tone's many threads. Weaken the x, make it bigger, or slow it's recharge or at least make it have to shoot with full energy so people can't change their key definitions to shoot almost as fast as warbird with a damn cloaker. If you weaken the cloakers less people will play as them, this will also reduce the number of javs you see, a main reason why people jav is because cloakers are attacking the flagroom from the roof, or just from mid. I think making hte cloakers big AGAIN, like they used to be will solve many problems that the tiny tyrants have caused.

EDIT: ALSO LESS ?CHEATER CALLS

[Kim]

A ship that interferes with the well-being of other players on your frequency, such as that of a javelin, is too much of a responsibility for your average public TW player.

[MiKe_HawK]

Lets not get off track...there are 6 pages on the cloaking issue...add to that if you wish Kont.
And Kolar cheater calls very rarely solve the problem...I gave up on them a long time ago. If I used ?cheater every time i was team killed in a pub I would be banned just for pissing off staff. Also, Im not sure if the greening engine shutdowns would work. If you gave it to a jav, wouldnt the terr get it as well? and that does sound alot more complicated then a simple limit. Bot would have to track who are javs on team and how often they team kill...if it was just an engine shut down everytime "someone" teamilled then sharks would get it aswell and that would just be insanity.

[AcidBomber]

a main reason why people jav is because cloakers are attacking the flagroom from the roof, or just from mid.

^ Very true indeed. I'd love to wb/spid in mid, but the constantly being x'd is not fun, so I resort to jav that can protect me from weasels. <_<

I think making hte cloakers big AGAIN, like they used to be will solve many problems that the tiny tyrants have caused.

Tiny weasels are fine, slow down the recharge and it'll be all good. :P

[Sarien]

I personally like the engine shutdown for TK's.
Sharks don't have to TK. It isn't a requirement that they have to drop mines that are easily thrown around to kill their own team. I like the idea of engine shutdown greening because not only does it hamper the player it serves as a kind of "teaching tool". A sort of "this is not good" lesson, without having to draw upon staff themselves.

The idea has a lot more merit to my mind than ship limits, because as we all know, there are lots of jerks in the world, and if you limit the number of javs, you'll have these same jerks rush to be in the limited ships and still TK, while laughing and keeping others from playing. Bad Idea. Bad Terrible Idea. (Not putting you down for having it, just saying it won't work)

[Existenz87]

i dunno having so many javs in pure pub helped me to learn to stay away from walls and in turn made me afraid of all red balls of light.

[Troll King]

I personally like the engine shutdown for TK's.
Sharks don't have to TK. It isn't a requirement that they have to drop mines that are easily thrown around to kill their own team. I like the idea of engine shutdown greening because not only does it hamper the player it serves as a kind of "teaching tool". A sort of "this is not good" lesson, without having to draw upon staff themselves.

The idea has a lot more merit to my mind than ship limits, because as we all know, there are lots of jerks in the world, and if you limit the number of javs, you'll have these same jerks rush to be in the limited ships and still TK, while laughing and keeping others from playing. Bad Idea. Bad Terrible Idea. (Not putting you down for having it, just saying it won't work)

I think you understate the affect that would have on Sharks. Even the best sharks will still get team kills, and even then it's usually not their fault at all but their teammates, and sometimes even the enemies that cause those teamkills. Sharks don't have to TK, you're right about that, but it's very easy for an opponent to force a teamkill. Why should they be punished for that?

[Sarien]

I can see your point, and I don't think the idea is perfect, but I like it, nevertheless. It has merit, I think, and is something to think about. Is it possible to tell if a person is in a jav when they TK? I would say probably it is, and would like for the idea to be explored further.

[Troll King]

I've never liked any form of automated rule enforcement in Trench Wars, especially when it comes to things like teamkilling which are not always cut and dry. There's too much of a grey area and any automated "punishments" will be too easy to exploit.

[SpiderMage]

Well, sometimes ?cheater works, a lot of the time it doesn't. In one game a few days ago, we had someone TKing us to death, costing us the flagroom at least a half a dozen times, and at least a few of our people sent ?cheater calls. No mod came for about 30 minutes or so and the moment he came, the TKer stopped because he knew a mod was present. Why not instead of limiting ships that have a value in basing, have a vote system or something, where if say someone TKed 5 - 10 times or more in a certain amount of time, the team could vote them into spec. Granted people could attempt this against Sharks during highly contested bits of battle because they'd be constantly mining to defend and constantly having their mines be reped away but the sensible few(and that's a very small few) players would recognize that they weren't TKing on purpose, unless of course they are mining where they know it will TK no matter what. Unfortunately it's been my view, that this game is too easy on TKers, especially those who do it on purpose or those who simply don't care and do it just because they have internet access. Many games have a vote system, some games allow the killed player to kick the TKer, accidental or not, on the first offense(which I think is wrong), but Continuum leaves it in the hands of mods who may or may not show up and who may or may not even catch the person TKing. I mean it's really easy to spot an intentional TK from an accidental one when someone is Javing, so voting it might be a good way to go.

[Riesen]

The voting idea sounds neat as long as it's a fair vote.

[genocidal]

This voting idea is a horrible idea, no offense. The point of having a staff that enforces the rules is that they are (supposedly) impartial and fair. Now, you could get a team who just doesn't like a certain person or may have other reasons to not let them use a particular ship. I am sorry that you think your ?cheater call was not dealt with for 30 minutes but, being staff, I can assure you that unless you made your call at 4 A.M. EST or for some reason no staff was on at the time (a very rare occurrence) that your call was dealt with before you perhaps knew that it was. Not only would a voting system be very difficult and time-consuming to implement it would create more problems than it would solve as staff would have yet another thing to monitor: vote cheating in which people are biased against a certain person in a ship. The beauty of Trench Wars since I started playing was that, unlike RPG games and such, experience doesn't get you access to more ships it only gets you precision and skill in the ships you have played. To disallow new players from playing ships defeats the purpose of having skill rather than access the point of experience. That is why people don't get tired of Subspace after 3 months of playing and move on to another game.