Is cheating on the rise??

[SLaQ n Sauce]

Furthermore There is a list of ppl that have ever used CE..and i will do my best to see that it comes to light. Yes rough be scared. Also..SubSpace Staff...come on now ban ppl when u have proof dont be stupid.

Post that shit, I would be interested in seeing it, even if it is just heresay.

On a side note, say goodbye to Olympia Girl, year ban for being a POS cheater. GET EM SWIFT! lol

[Duclover]

It's a 2d spaceship game. Why would you ban a friend you know over cheating on it? Cant really expect people on staff to care that much overall about the game, although there are some that do. I think most staffers are 'corrupt' in that they will let their friends get away with stupid things like racism if no one is really around, though i like to think theyd ban a friend if hes using a cheat. I dont really care so much about it as long as league doesnt get ruined, and as long as some alias no one ever heard of isnt playing in twl getting 20 kills with suspicious lag I think it'll be fine.

Id expect just such a comment from a guy thats been surrounded by the like and I speak from experience. And in short, yes its on the rise and it makes the game as a whole .....suck. What happened to people that have been around long enough using the skills they "should" have by now Vs using a program to give them an edge? It says loud and clear that they dont trust their own skills to speak for themselves, hence, they need a cyber cheat to do the talking for them. -Duc

[intersect]

*cough*thought some1 was cheating *cough*

[Duclover]

Slaq, I see you posting this thread as nothing more then an attack on staff so please do not quote or direct anything towards me. You were staff and you know how this works.

Why not suggest something like all Moderators get 2-3 names with powers like Smods. All this fucking whinning is doing nothing.

If you see this as nothing more than a personal attack may i suggest you either take the blindfold off or take some classes on common sense....of course culprits will recognise staff entering arena....there should be some discrepency used....and as for your response...may I recommend some tact?

[Kolar]

If you see this as nothing more than a personal attack may i suggest you either take the blindfold off or take some classes on common sense....of course culprits will recognise staff entering arena....there should be some discrepency used....and as for your response...may I recommend some tact?

Excuse me but why don't you mind your own business. You don't understand the situation here and I've said all that is needed about Slaq, it was a personal attack on staff.

[bicycle]

hmm so am i unbanned now too or what? im kinda scared to try to log in because the banned message gives me nightmares

[Kolar]

hmm so am i unbanned now too or what? im kinda scared to try to log in because the banned message gives me nightmares

Yes you are unbanned, same with Cape.

[SLaQ n Sauce]

keep up the good work kolar! Host DM?

[Izor]

I never said we could solve or prevent the problem but we do have tools to do so.



Sorry Slaq but that wasn't constructive, you offered critisism but no ideas. I'm not saying you guys can't post what you want within the rules, only that if you don't want to get told to fuck off in so many words while doing so then take it to trash talk forum. And also Smods have that already, get your shit stright.
I don't care if they want to say we're doing a bad job only if they can do it in a polite and civil manner and have some ideas that are worth looking at. If not move it somewhere else and let people get shit done here.

This puzzles me. If you have the tools to do something, then how can't you do it? Oh, and you also said something like 'staff knows what it is and will netban you from SSC if you're using it'. which leads me to my next point.

The community as a whole feels staff is handling cheating very poorly. Even if you should assemble the 5 mods that are necessary to have everyone agree someone is using a cheat (no less than 4 - all on their staff names - were present when vys was banned, and this is the only time i know of someone getting caught cheating) they will just end up evading the ban. Oh and when someone like cloth is banned for jumping around with quarter inch spikes that the majority of people think he shouldnt be allowed to play with, rudy will just unban him cause his lag is within the limits. Never mind that its illegal to pull your cord to evade dying, which is what lag like that should be considered, legit or not.

But no I'm not here to just flame staff with no ideas of my own. The first thing I believe staff needs to do here is understand that there is no way they're going to stop people from cheating before they try and 'solve the problem'. Perhaps then assign some older and more trustworthy mods, like dumbrit! and dameon, to a team allowed to go ban people for cheats without having to ask 3 other mods if they have their back on it. Once someone is banned for a cheat, take away their TWL priveleges for the season..thats the biggest thing since most people will want to play league still, and can now. The rules on squads that 1 cap or 2 asscaps cheating having that squad dissolved is fine if you're talking about stupid shit like double squadding. But with actual cheating I think it needs to be stricter. Perhaps a cap/asscap, or 2 players within a certain period. Because let's face it, captains should be more responsible of the players they allow on their squad. And I know that when vys was on QS, we probably didnt deserve a lot of those wins since he was cheating anyway, so dissolving/restarting would have just given the rest of us a clean slate really.

Now you can continue to take all of our posts as personal attacks, since most of us probably think you're an idiot anyway, or you can try to look at this from the community's viewpoint and see staff is really failing when it comes handling this. Maybe try and take something positive from the conversation and use an idea someone suggests. I know I'm not the only one who has ideas that could possibly do something. But acting like you're in control when everyone can pretty clearly see you aren't isn't going to help the community out

[Zerzera]

Excuse me but why don't you mind your own business. You don't understand the situation here and I've said all that is needed about Slaq, it was a personal attack on staff.

Why don't you mind your own business, what makes you think you are the spokesman of staff? If it was an attack it was an attack at the mods (and the smods who direct them) and it has nothing to do with a ZH with a high suckup level.

[Izor]

loooooooooooooool HES ONLY A ZH?

[Kolar]

This puzzles me. If you have the tools to do something, then how can't you do it? Oh, and you also said something like 'staff knows what it is and will netban you from SSC if you're using it'. which leads me to my next point.

The community as a whole feels staff is handling cheating very poorly. Even if you should assemble the 5 mods that are necessary to have everyone agree someone is using a cheat (no less than 4 - all on their staff names - were present when vys was banned, and this is the only time i know of someone getting caught cheating) they will just end up evading the ban. Oh and when someone like cloth is banned for jumping around with quarter inch spikes that the majority of people think he shouldnt be allowed to play with, rudy will just unban him cause his lag is within the limits. Never mind that its illegal to pull your cord to evade dying, which is what lag like that should be considered, legit or not.


But no I'm not here to just flame staff with no ideas of my own. The first thing I believe staff needs to do here is understand that there is no way they're going to stop people from cheating before they try and 'solve the problem'. Perhaps then assign some older and more trustworthy mods, like dumbrit! and dameon, to a team allowed to go ban people for cheats without having to ask 3 other mods if they have their back on it. Once someone is banned for a cheat, take away their TWL priveleges for the season..thats the biggest thing since most people will want to play league still, and can now. The rules on squads that 1 cap or 2 asscaps cheating having that squad dissolved is fine if you're talking about stupid shit like double squadding. But with actual cheating I think it needs to be stricter. Perhaps a cap/asscap, or 2 players within a certain period. Because let's face it, captains should be more responsible of the players they allow on their squad. And I know that when vys was on QS, we probably didnt deserve a lot of those wins since he was cheating anyway, so dissolving/restarting would have just given the rest of us a clean slate really.

Now you can continue to take all of our posts as personal attacks, since most of us probably think you're an idiot anyway, or you can try to look at this from the community's viewpoint and see staff is really failing when it comes handling this. Maybe try and take something positive from the conversation and use an idea someone suggests. I know I'm not the only one who has ideas that could possibly do something. But acting like you're in control when everyone can pretty clearly see you aren't isn't going to help the community out

We have some tools to detect cheating but it is not fool proof. I said that staff knows what it is and how to detect it because some people were thinking staff doesn't know what CE is. It is a limit in technology and knowledge that is our failing. I plan on changing that. Rudy is now a level 1 bang op and i've setup some testing days for Moderators with the help of SSC. Aswell SSC is working on new methods for banning and Priitk is working on a new update but I have no information on how far along it is or if it will be released.

I don't see more then 2 or 3 mods working together on one person if a second opinion is needed. As for evading technology limits our abilities but there will be better options in the future for banning. I don't know what happened with Cloth but I will mention it to Swift next time I'm on MSN. We are limited by technology and by the knowledge gap that exists between older zones who have dealt with this bullshit for years and with TW, now getting a lot of it. I plan on using my position to bridge the gap.
If it were I who was deciding on cloths case I probably would have banned him or kept him from playing. Even if your connection is bad or whatever you are still disrupting the game by playing.

It will be a never ending battle and cheating will always plauge us but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop it. Dumbrit is still around and Dameon is actually a Smod now so he has much more power. The truth is we have a group of high mods who have more powers, leaning on Smod to deal with TWL-TWD double squading and generally are very experienced. Seaon banning from TWL-TWD sounds like a very good idea but it has to be blantent program abuse or CE/hacking.

I'm taking a few as personal attacks because they just give staff or me shit but bring no ideas to the table. The zone is player run, you guys have the ability to either help run it or contribute ideas here and I really welcome it. I also welcome all the help SSC can give us and recently they've provided.

By being staff 3/4 of the community thinks i'm an idiot anyways. I really don't care for trash talk but if they want to act like they are blameless on this issue or can complain uncontrolled they're wrong. We have rules to follow here and things to discuss and if they can't do it civilly and offer something I will call them on it.

Why don't you mind your own business, what makes you think you are the spokesman of staff? If it was an attack it was an attack at the mods (and the smods who direct them) and it has nothing to do with a ZH with a high suckup level.

I never talk as if I speak for staff, I am a part of it and I took this attack personal because of that. I was replying personally to Slaq and DucWhatever thought I was replying as if Slaq didn't have a right to speak here, he couldn't have been further from the truth but that issue has been layed to rest.
I don't suck up to anyone, if I did I probably would have been a Moderator 7 months ago. The policies of this zone and the operations have as much to do with a ZH as they do to you. I like being a ZH, I think I have more pull and knowledge then most of them. It is a thankless job to many of you but I enjoy helping people here and giving advice to new ZHs as a trainer and offering ideas to our upper managment.
You never liked me ZZ, I left Incuria and went squadless for months after and I never started a fight with you or anyone on chat. I don't want to agrue with you anymore same with Izor so lets just start acting like adults here. Whatever you think I did I am sorry so lets move on.


I am still a ZH as I said because I did not want to go from ZH-ER-Mod. I found event hosting boring and too stressful to maintain a quota. I was offered it again twice I think since going back to ZH. I am much more suited to policy, information stuff and managment. Normally ZHs moving to the Moderator level take 1-1.5 years or more so I probably will still be a ZH for a while.

[Izor]

So basically, you are saying TW staff is doing nothing except waiting on SSC ops to do something about banning people? Because forgive me if I'm wrong here, but that post said nothing about what the zones local staff has done about the situation. Also, forgive me for seeing the glass as half empty, but how will you ever be able to ban someone when they can change everything that is 'unique' about their computer with just a couple of programs.

My rant about cloth was more of a shot at TW staffs inability to stop people who shouldnt be playing from doing so than a complaint that needs addressing now. I dont think the kid even plays much, but when a staffer bans him for half inch spike killing people and its reversed by someone who wasnt even there to see it over the excuse 'lightning struck my cable' it just makes me chuckle.

It doesnt really matter how much 'power' people on staff have because they arent allowed to do anything about what they see..unless of course some other staffers see it too..like I said I don't know if this is from a lack of trust or what but it is frustrating to a player sending a cheater call to hear a mod say 'yeah that looked suspicious to me too but I really cant do anything since its a grey area and no one else can back me up about it'

[Kolar]

So basically, you are saying TW staff is doing nothing except waiting on SSC ops to do something about banning people? Because forgive me if I'm wrong here, but that post said nothing about what the zones local staff has done about the situation. Also, forgive me for seeing the glass as half empty, but how will you ever be able to ban someone when they can change everything that is 'unique' about their computer with just a couple of programs.

My rant about cloth was more of a shot at TW staffs inability to stop people who shouldnt be playing from doing so than a complaint that needs addressing now. I dont think the kid even plays much, but when a staffer bans him for half inch spike killing people and its reversed by someone who wasnt even there to see it over the excuse 'lightning struck my cable' it just makes me chuckle.

It doesnt really matter how much 'power' people on staff have because they arent allowed to do anything about what they see..unless of course some other staffers see it too..like I said I don't know if this is from a lack of trust or what but it is frustrating to a player sending a cheater call to hear a mod say 'yeah that looked suspicious to me too but I really cant do anything since its a grey area and no one else can back me up about it'

Rudy is implimenting changes and I can't be as specific as I can if you want to message me. To date little has been able to be done but it is changing because all levels took a soft approch to cheating. I listed what I want to happen and how things will change in TW.

It is extremely hard to change everything, not specific things like a DHCP assigned IP but changing everything to get around a ban like your MacID, Machine ID, IP, ISP. Future banning will allow for zone wide tracking of bans and more specific information.

I got the story too, it seems very shotty but I wasn't there. I think the point was that he was banned by surquimstanial evidence and it was done because the public put presure on the banning Moderator. This can lead to wrongful banning, not that I would or would not know if Cloth did cheat.

I will send his name to the right people. My point is I know things haven't been done well up until now. You can blame almost everyone for that but now billing staff and tw staff is changing. I don't see the need to place anymore blame.

[Barton]

It is extremely hard to change everything, not specific things like a DHCP assigned IP but changing everything to get around a ban like your MacID, Machine ID, IP, ISP. Future banning will allow for zone wide tracking of bans and more specific information.

changing your macID, Machine ID & IP can be done with in 5 mins. so I have heard.

I hope that someone finds an other way for banning ppl.