Publics

[Hakaku]

Exactly Izor, which is why I think if we would limit the levi to 1 per freq, then at least it would promote LTing competition, without destroying the map & sets.

[Troll King]

I'm all for it. It's about time people started thinking of a compromise instead of taking one extreme or the other. One thing I've suggested before in theory, but haven't figured out how to best put into practice is to find something besides the flag room that would attract levis so that they can still bomb and kill, but without the base and basers being the only viable target. When their weapon works best when it hits walls, doesn't it seem odd that the one thing that we don't want levis to focus on is the only thing that has walls?

Perhaps there should be more walls and obstacles in the spawn area. There's no reason that three-quarters of the map is filled with empty space. We don't need to form other bases or any elaborate structures, just some simple walls and barriers. Or if we want something more ambitious, something else I've thought about was extending the outer, lower walls of the base so they stretch lower (and outwards, wider) into the middle of the map. That would turn the middle of the map (and at the same time, a significant portion of the spawn area) into one giant courtyard. With the walls surrounding it on both sides, I think this would be another alternative target for levis. And if it were designed correctly, it could also be a natural funnel directing people upwards and into the traditional base.

[Supreme Authority]

Perhaps there should be more walls and obstacles in the spawn area. There's no reason that three-quarters of the map is filled with empty space. We don't need to form other bases or any elaborate structures, just some simple walls and barriers.

Actually that is, at least i think its is cause i always see people doing it, practise grounds for the newer wb's

[Troll King]

And Warbirds are notorious for their inability to fly around simple barriers?

[Ephemeral]

I feel it is important to consider the pub issue from the top down instead of trying to pick apart details (bottom up thinking).

I agree with a lot of what TK posted. The growth of TW was unchecked and mostly unplanned. This is the same as an area that you live in not having vision and good planning in place and then experiencing a lot of new growth. The problems manifest themselves in many ways, examples include; over-crowded schools, traffic, big jumps in taxes, trailer parks and fruit stands built next to expensive developments.

Jumping all over a traffic issue or over-crowded schools is bottom up thinking. It might 'band-aid' a few problems but will not address the real problem since long term planning is not place. To tackle better planning, we must understand what went wrong.

Moot has driven a Mission Statement in place as a great start. The next step is for a plan to be put in place that will fulfill the Mission Statement.

My opinion is that the unchecked growth caused the TW to lose focus. TW grew in every direction at once, particularly with the number of arenas and events. Bots, while making some things easier, do not replace humans or the human touch. Staffing turn-over is too high. Squads and players have to be very proactive and in be firm about not playing with known cheaters and lag inducers. Education and promotion also need to be a part of the plan. This is the hard stuff to do, but debating minutia such as ship/map changes is simply addressing the symptoms and not the problem.

[Izor]

I agree with a lot of what TK posted. The growth of TW was unchecked and mostly unplanned. This is the same as an area that you live in not having vision and good planning in place and then experiencing a lot of new growth. The problems manifest themselves in many ways, examples include; over-crowded schools, traffic, big jumps in taxes, trailer parks and fruit stands built next to expensive developments.

This is not a good analogy, and ill tell you why. I live in a town that is getting fucking crowded and packed with developments, and the problem is all in the infrastructure like you said. The roads which once were fine with a smaller population are not being widened to meet the demand that is being put on them and traffic gets really awful at some points. The reason this doesnt apply to TW is that at the time you are referring to, elims and TWD were the biggest draw. There was enough room in elim when the gates opened to accomodate everyone and plenty of TWD arenas for them to play in, and when people would fill up a pub a new one would just be created. After the game started to decline we saw an increase in infrastructure, such as wbduel, base, and javduel. The result is equivalent to having I-95 for the traffic of a 2 lane highway. It doesnt really hurt anyone being there but its way more than necessary.

I do agree though about the fact that the growth caused people to lose focus. Events like zombies on the weekend would be something people would look forward to and they'd want to log on just to play it. Now they can get it hosted whenever they want (thanks wark!) and i think in that case it might take a little something away

[Sufficient]

Cut the dmg radius of lev and go from there.

[Zerzera]

From my point of view; every player scared away from this game is a life saved :P

In my memory the peak of Trench Wars wasn't the same time as Izor's peak.

[Ignominy]

I apparently need to write an essay on the psychology of newbs. They dont log on to this game at first to collect a flag and gather points that dont mean anything. They log on to shoot spaceships. You basers are attempting to force people into doing something that more or may not be fun to them, as opposed to letting them decide what they enjoy. Implementing any of these changes is going to kill this zone worse than purepub is now.

Best point of the thread.

Why not make purepubs unconnected to the public arenas, and in a seperate map? They are vastly different anyway. Then you could have your timer below the energy bar not show up everywhere, try out whatever new ship settings you want to have on the lev, throw in your extra roof no bullet tiles, or warp tiles, or whatever the hell you think would make it great without changing the rest of pubs.

Then starter pubs would be again what this game is about to an ultra-novice player: shooting spaceships. Then, maybe after they play a bit and discover they can change arenas, they'll start strategically shooting spaceships (basing). This will also reduce (a little bit) your tking jav problems by taking out people that have no idea what they're doing.

You could even start the arena name with the number, e.g. 0 purepub, 1 purepub, and it'll jump to the top of the arena list. If it stays as popular without having people auto-dumped into it, then you won't even need zoners.

I think this would breathe some life into regular pubs without taking away the purepubs which are so much better designed for basing and only basing.

EDIT: I suppose, if the server crashes, then it'll reset everyone's record, won't it? Still I think this is a good idea to give everyone's ideas a chance.

[Denon]

I always did prefer ?go purepub for the pure pub settings. It was a kind of inbetween from pub to ?go base.

People that actually wanted to base could go there without the need to "prove" themselves to get picked.

[Fluffz]

I feel it is important to consider the pub issue from the top down instead of trying to pick apart details (bottom up thinking).

we are not trying to go to the moon here. i honestly cant see the reson we need a mission statement or some execution plan.

the given situation:
one ship/ship combination (Levi/Leviterr) is overpowered which is why it got so popular among the players. but unlike the jav in EG this ship/ship combo has the additional ability to destroy basing, next to dueling the only reson to enter pub

the target situation:
unique and balanced ships

now either fix the cause of the MAIN TW PROBLEM or dont. wtf do u need a plan for.

[Izor]

Please note that a ?go purepub would be doing essentially the same thing as the current publics, just a little bit less. All the basers would flock to that arena instead of a pub, and although the pub game would be slightly more balanced, there would still be less of them there than if a ?go purepub did not exist. The pub game needs basers to be good and fun. There is a delicate balance between basers, spawn zoners, and LTs that needs to be maintained. Making basers go to some other arena throws off that balance in the pubs and undermines the whole game. You newbs and even people who were around back then dont seem to remember that basing still happened in LT pubs, you just had to be smart about it and keep alert.

Also, the peak of this game was undeniably before purepub. Not far before it, either. Like i said its naive to point the finger at only one thing in a situation like that, but purepubs are largely the reason why people have not been graduating from pub. Havent seen anyone refute that point either.

[Richard Creager]

Just keep in mind that a lot of newbs like to play that ship, and it attracts way more people than the current setup.

Oh, so thats why the purepubs are always full and the ones with levis have an excess of people in spec trying to get into them the entire time huh? Wow.

I apparently need to write an essay on the psychology of newbs. They dont log on to this game at first to collect a flag and gather points that dont mean anything. They log on to shoot spaceships.

Basing isn't shooting spaceships amirite guyz?

You basers are attempting to force people into doing something that may or may not be fun to them, as opposed to letting them decide what they enjoy.

I'm giving them plenty of choice, they would be able to be in a purepub at any time (since so many pubs would be pure, instead of only two always being full) they wish or they can go to the very last ones if they want to deal with levs and spawning.

[Richard Creager]

The pub game needs basers to be good and fun.

Put levs back in and basers aren't going back, it's as simple as that.

There is a delicate balance between basers, spawn zoners, and LTs that needs to be maintained.

No, there "was" a "balance" back when the zone sucked and we didn't have a nice bot keeping a pub free of shit, that has changed, those who even remotely want to base in a pub have now been able to taste what it is like to be privelaged with no levs around, they like it, they like it a shitton, trying to reinstate this shitty "balance" you claim exists (which actually no longer does fyi, not to mention it so barely and shittily did when it was "balanced") is just going to kill these once active pubs and bringing them back to the state that the lower pubs are, because as it seems you guys aren't able to tell
THE LOWER PUBS ARE STILL THE SAME AS THEY WERE BEFORE PUREPUB, AND JUST THE SAME WAY THE NOW PURE PUBS HAD BEEN, WHICH IS, THEY WERE ALL SHIT.

Making basers go to some other arena throws off that balance in the pubs and undermines the whole game.

You'll be making basers go to any other arena or even game the fucking second you remove the purity of those pubs, I fucking guarantee it, no one wants to deal with levs again, except people from quicksand levterr and darklegion. You guys do NOT fucking represent public basing in any way shape or fucking form.

You newbs and even people who were around back then dont seem to remember that basing still happened in LT pubs, you just had to be smart about it and keep alert.

1. It BARELY happened
2. As I said before, staff had never given us what we'd wanted in regards to the playing eligibility of levs before, there is no point in regressing the fact that this has changed, but go for it, see if this "balance" you claim will still take place now that people have been able to see good pubs which again HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE PUREPUB.

but purepubs are largely the reason why people have not been graduating from pub. Havent seen anyone refute that point either.

Check this out, this zone. Guess what it was made for
you get three.
Go
I'll give you a few hints
It's not elim
It ain't leagues
Not zombies/dodgeball/dm/whatever the fuck shitty subarena have you

Any clue yet?
Try hard
Real hard

Ever think
well you don't obviously but
maybe, the reason why people aren't migrating from the publics
is because purepub just so happens to be more fun to these newbies than any of these touted subarenas you think they should be heading too?
Maybe they don't want to play your game
Maybe they just wish that there were enough purepubs for them to always be able to get a game in one, instead of having to wait for one or the other to open up? That would definitely be a huge reason why some people sit in pub and then log out when they're sick of waiting
Add days of this waiting for the good pubs to open up
And you might have one less nub in the zone
Maybe he'll try elim
Goes and gets spawned around a bit
And afterwards more waiting
Obviously, since the guy came to elim to escape waiting for purepub to open up, waiting after going out is going to be something reminiscent of sitting in the lower pubs, who knows how long it'll take before he gets sick of that arena
So where else is there? Oh, this weird matchbot guy just zonered for ?go base, well there's a base in pub (OH A FUCKING COINCIDENCE PERHAPS YOU MEAN TO SAY THAT THIS SUBARENA CAME FROM THE VERY CONCEPT OF PUB ITSELF?! I WONDER WHICH ONE CAME FIRST, AND WHICH ONE THE FOUNDERS OF THIS ZONE HAD IN MIND FOR PEOPLE TO PLAY, HMMMMM) so I guess maybe it sounds fun
Lots of spectating in this arena, a little bit less amount of people than elim in here, not as much as 36 though. So we just get to jump in from spec at the go right?
Oh whats this?
Players all get thrown in
one
at
a
time
?
Well that's interesting, they tell me this game has a limit of 16 people though, so I guess it won't take too long
Oh, I didn't get picked what other arenas are there
or
Oh I got picked and everyone bitches at me because I don't play like they do or like they want me because I don't play 8s basing I play pub, well excuuuuuuuuuuse me princess, I'm going to another fucking arena.

Hmm no other arenas look like they have people playing in them...I guess it's back to waiting for the bluebomberless pubs to open up

[Ephemeral]

Ok, my bad.
Let's all debate the pros and cons of the size of the weasel and the color of bullets. No sense in trying to understand the issues from the top down, let's do more of the same thing and argue over minor shit like has been done for the last 5 years and see if that works.