Publics

[Izor]

If you take them away, its going to annoy a large minority of people

yep, a minority

IMO Removing the pure pubs would be a step backwards. I and others campaigned for years to get them put in in the first place, and they have shown themselves to be the most popular public arenas for a good reason.

Yeah, that good reason is because they in effect have sucked all the life out of the lower pubs. You dont read the other threads. I'll catch you up. Why would you play those lower pubs when you cant get shot by levis in the top ones? I'll admit, I like wb'ing in the second pub because theres not a ton of levis there lobbng bombs at rocks. But I also can see the bigger picture. No one new is sticking to this game. Partly because its old and outdated but partly because those lower pubs are not any fun at all. The only way to prolong this games life is to make all pubs equally fun, so that when a player logs in they are getting an accurate representation of what the game has to offer.

changing the pubs isn't going to help, and might well drive people away.

This is very excellent thinking. Where were you when someone wanted to change pubs to put in purepub basing?

[Lemmin]

I was there campaigning for pure pubs, because I could see that levis in pubs were killing the game. And I can see that changing them again to allow levis in all pubs again will kill the game. Again.

I don't see this fixation on "equality". Different people enjoy different things. Therefore, we should have different arenas to cater for it. If you make one arena that is a compromise between all those different things, you end up with an arena that noone likes.

The LTs aren't going to like it because they can't get as many cheap kills. The pure basers won't like it because there are still LTs mucking up their base. To my mind "equality" just means "noone has as much fun".

The whole reason for making these changes is flawed - we aren't all the same person, we do need different pubs.

LEM

[Izor]

I was there campaigning for pure pubs, because I could see that levis in pubs were killing the game.

I dont get it, we're both referring to the days where this game saw its peak. This game has been on a decline ever since purepub has been around. Dont allow increasing bot numbers fool you (they add a steady...25-40 to the playerbase at all times I would say)

Your entire argument is based on the premise that the pre-purepub layout was not working, which is untrue. There were some basers that whined about levis, thats about it.

I also ask you to put yourself in the shoes of a newb, the future of this or any game. When you log into one of the lower pubs (and chances are you WILL log in to one of the lower pubs, seeing how the top ones are usually full), what is your chance of coming back? I can attempt to explain how pubs work at attracting new players without having levi restrictions in some but on top of already having done that, it is completely unnecessary since history will back me up.

The focus here is also entirely way off of where it should be. Basing, although it is outlined as one of the key points in mootlands objectives, is not the focus of publics. Attracting new players is. Since you cannot honestly tell me that you have any fun at all doing anything except blasting the one noob in fr in those lower pubs with a lev bomb, a change is needed. I'll also point out that marketing campaigns and perfecting the perfectly balanced pub basing game dont mean anything if thats not what players like.

[bubbles19518]

That is nowhere near as commonplace as LTing.

Yes it is, I go in put and shark tunnels all the time. Once I start doing it I have about 15 minutes before tons of other sharks come. Sometimes I cant even do it in the pub I was planning on because someone is already there.

[Doc Flabby]

why not just restirct levi to 1 per freq and to the player with the most points like in octobase.

It would be the reward for doing best in pub. For this to work however you would need to give players a real points bonus when they win the timed game

1 levi per freq will not mess up basing, but will keep it balanced and FUN. i've defended flag rooms sucessfully using a shark from LTs its not as hard as people make out....

[Richard Creager]

Yeah, that good reason is because they in effect have sucked all the life out of the lower pubs.

Ahaahahahahhaahhaha just shut the fuck up right now before you even TRY claiming those pubs had any life in them at all or that they're even remotely different than before, levs and cloakers ran amok all day then, birds sat in spawn and its the same exact way now. Fucking moron.

[za gophar]

this so reminds me of the gay marriage debate

[Richard Creager]

I dont get it, we're both referring to the days where this game saw its peak.

I don't get it, why would you comment on those days at all when you weren't even around for them?

This game has been on a decline ever since purepub has been around.

This is because there aren't enough purepubs.

Your entire argument is based on the premise that the pre-purepub layout was not working, which is untrue. There were some basers that whined about levis, thats about it.

Yeah those who didn't know private basing was going on, more than a few people were complaining, DAILY.

I also ask you to put yourself in the shoes of a newb, the future of this or any game. When you log into one of the lower pubs (and chances are you WILL log in to one of the lower pubs, seeing how the top ones are usually full), what is your chance of coming back?

Not much unless said pub is pure when I see it.

I can attempt to explain how pubs work at attracting new players without having levi restrictions in some but on top of already having done that, it is completely unnecessary since history will back me up.

The history you were not here for is not backing you up at all.

The focus here is also entirely way off of where it should be. Basing, although it is outlined as one of the key points in mootlands objectives, is not the focus of publics. Attracting new players is.

Staff can't give out a Mercedes to every player who signs up, guess BASING IN PUBLIC will have to do, since it's the premise the zone was made for and all.

Since you cannot honestly tell me that you have any fun at all doing anything except blasting the one noob in fr in those lower pubs with a lev bomb, a change is needed.

I agree, the lower pubs need to be changed to pure. Here's how it works, all pubs except the last one is pure, if the last one gets full (good luck keeping players there, levs, you surely make arenas you're in fun) then obviously a new pub is created fresh by the server and since it was just made there'll be no bot making it pure, if there even ends up being such a demand there can easily be more than one nonpurepub, however having everysingle other one except the bottom ones pure will leave ample room for new players to get to see the real game of this zone the first time they log in. If they don't like flagging, they can kindly fuck off to the lowest pubs/elim or leave if none of those arenas tickle their ass's fancy.

[Pressure Drop]

I play alot of pub0
here are some of my ideas for ship changes etc... note these are just ideas, ones i brought up before:P

ship balancing
LEVS
make levs unable to attach
levs would be easy to deal with if needed then and some ppl would enjoy sneaking a lev up the side to take a cheap shot before getting hunted by a wb or x

you could also reduce it from l3 -> l2 bombs, add max shrap of about 9 and give it some l2 shrap and give it an increase in speed and rotation so that its still the slowest ship but it is about i dunno 75% speed off the next slowest.


JAVS
give javs an attach bty off bout 5-6
this would stop the crazy 6 javs per freq attaching, rocketing and bombing like crazy in flag room fights. It would mean eatting a few greens in spawn which would help out their terrs in the flag room fight if they wasnted to jav during it. You could also increase the greens in spawn slightly for this. I think this wold increase the number of fighter ships and reduce tking in flagroom fights

X
take away multifire, give a rocket + repel

Terrs
Maybe reduce burst length slightly

game and pub type
i was their when basebot was tried out

it had some advantages to roboroy when its bugs are sorted out

maybe have it in a pub0 with no priv freqs
then have a pub1 with roboroy and no priv freqs
then have the rest with priv freqs and which ever bot seems most popular after everyone gets used to them and have a vote on the forums with pub0 keeping basebot and pub1 keeping roboroy

[Pressure Drop]

hmm if possibly have a tk bot

the way the bot msgs you a pm telling you you've been tked if its not an accident report it.

Instead of that you could get a pm from the bot saying something like
"you were tked by <name> if it wasn't an accident or they are being consistantly reckless type ::!alert:<%tickname>

then it could monitor that person and say if they tk 4 ppl in 10 minutes or something they are auto ship changed and locked out of tking ships for 30 mins

if a bot like this is possible you could apply it only to javs but lock them out of shark too if they get changed due to excessive tks.

[Ephemeral]

What kind of input does this thread contain? It contains input a small group of people who may or may not play much pub but certainly have a lot of experience. I do not think that we have the correct perspective if we are just discussing ship and map changes.

Consider for a moment how most players evolve over time;

1. A new player finds the Zone and begins playing base pubs.

2. As experience grows, the new player begins discovering other standard arenas such as ?go base, Elim, javs, etc.

3. Further down the road, the new player tries some of the hosted events

4. At some point, the player decides whether or not they should join a squad and play in leagues

At each step, ask yourself questions like "what did I find fun when I was like that'. In step 1, is not the 'fun' that you can fly around and blow other people up? How many people (percentage-wise) continue to play pubs as they evolve into steps 2-4? Certainly pubs lose players as they evolve, should this be addressed? And if every players evolves and most leave pubs behind but continue to play in other venues, is not the value of pubs to be the first stepping stone and give the newer players what they want, the ability to blow other people up with ships levs? Hell, bring on the Thors?

[Maurauth]

When you were a newb, could you actually get into a lev and find a terrier to attach to you? Or were you going into the base and then suddenly blown up by a blue bomb, and then again, and then you get spawned a couple times. You think "fuck this" and quit.

[Vehicle]

In my last post I didn't mention pure pubs, but to be honest, I think they are a travesty. However, I do think it is fixable with minimal effort. Staff needs to make a key decision: are pure pubs worth keeping around? If the answer is yes, put them in every public arena and have a timed basing game going on everywhere. However, you have to tweak the bot. Levi's should be allowed in every arena, including the first two pubs. However, I do agree that something has to be done if levi's will be allowed to reenter the basing scene.

You have 2 options with the levi; one, take the bomb radius and 1/2 it, this way the levi still can tear shit up, but it's shots will have to be a little bit more aimed. Or, like I stated earlier, make a 5 tile wide shell around the flagroom from the outside (mid being fair game,) keeping levithans at bay. However, levithans could still enter the shell, but the entrance's could be near the flagroom entrance, enabling a layer of defending team defense that hasn't been seen in the past.

For heavens sake, enable private freq's in every arena. I'm sure a lot of you remember when squads would take over pubs and battle it out for the flagroom. This encouraged basing, and was stripped away in an attempt to force people to base, but it apparently isn't working.

[Maurauth]

ship balancing
LEVS
make levs unable to attach
levs would be easy to deal with if needed then and some ppl would enjoy sneaking a lev up the side to take a cheap shot before getting hunted by a wb or x

you could also reduce it from l3 -> l2 bombs, add max shrap of about 9 and give it some l2 shrap and give it an increase in speed and rotation so that its still the slowest ship but it is about i dunno 75% speed off the next slowest.


JAVS
give javs an attach bty off bout 5-6
this would stop the crazy 6 javs per freq attaching, rocketing and bombing like crazy in flag room fights. It would mean eatting a few greens in spawn which would help out their terrs in the flag room fight if they wasnted to jav during it. You could also increase the greens in spawn slightly for this. I think this wold increase the number of fighter ships and reduce tking in flagroom fights

X
take away multifire, give a rocket + repel

Terrs
Maybe reduce burst length slightly

I aggree with about 90% of this, X should have mutli fire, and maybe a repel, but the flagroom should have "window*" tiles or shipwarp tiles in all the enterances other than the main, and the holes next to the cram.

Terrier burst seems fine as it is.

This is basically what I said about levis, they should be a bit faster, more of a medium bomber like a slow ship, stronger than jav, but with less bomb radius, and shrap.

That's an excelent idea to make attach bounty a bit higher so they have to grab 3 greens or so. It would really add to the basing.

If you do this to all pure pubs, and put the antibomb/bullet tile around the outside of the flagroom on the top and sides, but not on the bottom, and maybe make the parts next to the ear a bit wider, with maybe a small 2 tile or 1 tile vertical block a lin it.

I wouldn't mind helping make a concept map of it and putting it in dev zone if anyone else is working on something like it (chao?).

Window Tiles = A tile that is invisible on map and radar, and allows bullets and bombs to pass through, but not ships.

[Sufficient]

you mean a jav?

You need a direct hit for a jav to do a one-hit-kill on a full nrg ship. Levi can have a larger one-hit-kill-on-a-full-nrg-ship radius. Simple.