Publics

[kthx]

There are 29 squads who are currently shown in TWBD, out of which, only 18 are above the starting 1000 rating. Out of the 18 squads which are above 1000 rating in TWBD, 10 of those are squads which are more interested in Javving and Warbirding, and just base as an afterthought.

There are 40 squads who are currently shown in TWJD, out of which, only 20 are above the starting 1000 rating. Out of the 20 squads which are above 1000 rating in TWJD, 15 of those squads are actually considered to have jav lineups, or are jav squads.

There are 51 squads who are currently shown in TWDD, out of which, 29 are above the starting 100 rating. Out of those 29 squads, 23 of the squads are considered mainly warbird squads.

The funny thing is Basing was ruined by the people who are trying to protect it. When newbies enter the game, they get stuck in dead pubs because the two pure pubs are always full, they think the game is boring and quit, mainly the people who play pure pubs are people who actually base, and people who are experienced pubbers anyways. Besides that, because you made ?go base such a closed event where only the best get picked every game, no new basers are really getting into your league, instead they go to elim and join up on newbie squads and over the years become better duelists. Which feeds the fact that DD and JD are by far the most active leagues in Trench Wars. Over the years this zones "main goal" which is basing, has been replaced with three things, Basing, Dueling, and Javving, it is ridiculous to still think that this zones main cause is basing.

I am trying to figure out where Torquil is getting his information. "Base even had more players in it than elim even before the zoners". First off, Elim generally has 50+ people in it at any peak hour in Trenchwars, - when Wbduel or Tourny are running, Base I almost never see over 40 even with these new fangled zoners. Secondly the zoners don't really help an arena after awhile, People see ?go elim ?go baseelim ?go base all day, every day now, and if they don't like the arenas they don't go, people figure that out fairly early.

As for the zones decrease in population, I wouldn't really put it all on the hands of Pure Pubs, It is a combination of Rampant Cheating pissing people off, Older players getting tired of the game or moving on in life, Bad Staff and Bad Staff Decisions, and the game being outdated. But if you want someones opinion who was around during this zones "Population Peak" then Izor is correct. This zone had peak players around 2003 when we had close to 600 people on during peak times on weekdays, and 750 during peak times on Weekends. Shortly after Pure Pubs were brought around the zones playerbase slowly decreased until it is what it is now. What Izor is trying to say is - Players Quit the game, it just happens, and quite a few quit over a three year period of time, usually these players are replaced by new players who stay with the game, but since pure pub has been around this second integral part of the cycle of this game isn't happening - And I can agree with that. Finally, How can you say that Basing is more of a team game than TWDD or TWJD, thats is utterly ridiculous, you just think that because you don't understand the complicated teaming in other leagues.

[Darkmoor]

So, finally the public arenas will get their much needed overhaul?

Seems to me that you want to shape the publics into another ?go base without the need to assign a captain and to manually add players. Publics should remain publics, with as few restrictions as possible.

One of the main things that you should focus on should be to promote playing in public arenas. Give the players reasons to play in the public arenas. The current situation is about as bad as it can get. The top point gatherers get their name on the front page (is it even working?) that no one notices and that is it. Not to mention that no one cares about points.

As for any map/ship changes. A few blocks could be added to make some LT shots harder at most. But whatever you do, at least keep the roof open. With the ships you should revert back to older settings (including a normal sized Weasel). Recently there has been a tweak here and a tweak there to the ship settings, the end result is not good.

LTs are not a problem if you do not let them become one. A few active people should be enough to keep them away from causing too much damage. LTs are a part of the public basing.

The idea of adding various games to publics is probably a good thing. Hopefully it will freshen the publics a bit. There are lots of options here, I hope you will look into all of them. Simply having a timed game of basing every now and then will not help a thing, a lot more is needed.

One thing to also note is that the current player base cannot support the publics ideally. Maybe some smaller events could be removed or hosted only on certain days to improve the situation.

[Dameon Angell]

No, seriously. The Weasel is fucking up basing in pure pubs. Cause you get about 6 guys on one team in a weasel, thinking they're gonna steal the flag for a second, which they might. But, that team never wins, and the players on that team get pissed, so they all leave.

[Izor]

If you ask me, LJ has much more intricate teaming than LB. You always have to be alert for your teammates, and the better squads will eat bullets for each other. LB requires excellent teamwork from sharks, and in fr fights spids need to cover under and shoot strategically, but I dont think its anything like the teaming in other leagues - you sometimes need to know your teammate in dueling very well to save them from being chased. This is getting off topic now so I'll stop.

Torq, theres a reason you hate analogies. You're bad at them. Unlike weeds in a garden, duelers arent harmful to the rest of the 'garden' and we surely dont stop basers from doing their thing.

Also, I already proved the peak of TW and the date of purepub, scroll up

PD - that join date is really damn close to purepub, but ill assume that you had a couple very forgettable months as a newb before those came in

Still, dueling has been the bread and butter of this zone for so many years. Why would you attempt to change that focus to basing? Because it is the 'focus of the zone'?

The fact that more TWDDs are played isn't really an argument because TWDDS are alot easier to set up.

Thats part of the fun. You come on and see 3 other people and can get a game, so you end up playing more. You dont have to worry about 7 squaddies being on and 8 people on another squad.

[Mootland Farmer]

We are getting sidetracked here with this league stuff... If our focus was dueling, why isn't our Public map ?go deathmatch?

[Troll King]

You proved that purepubs came after the peak, but that doesn't prove that they were the main cause. I think that they did make the problem worse, but only because they took the better players out of the regular pubs, but I don't think they were a major cause of the decline. Instead, they were a poor attempt at stopping the bleeding.

As for dueling being the "bread and butter" of the zone, the point is that it was never intended to be the main purpose of the zone. The map design, the ship settings, and even the zone description were all made with basing in mind. The bread and butter was always supposed to be basing, and over the years, we've lost sight of that. This is an attempt at remedying the situation.

I think you're overreacting to the effect the proposed changes will have on dueling anyway. There's nothing in them that will do any real harm to it. The courtyard is a levi alternative and will hopefully also encourage base partcipation, but there's no reason people have to stop dueling. You can easily fly in and out of the courtyard, and it should be several screen lengths in width, so there's still plenty of room. There's nothing here that "forces" people to base. Staff will try to encourage pub basing, but ultimately, how you play will be up to you.

[Izor]

Currently the top 50% of the map is focused around the base, and the bottom 50% is a deathmatch-style area. No one has pointed out a reason that this needs to change. In fact, no one has pointed out what is wrong with the current pub map that warrants a change

If you want to fuck up base go ahead, use the top 50% of the map to do whatever you want. But just leave that bottom part alone - you dont know what youre doing with it. No one has ever done anything stupid like fuck with that half of the map. You know why? Because its simple, and it works.

And seeing as how its a 50/50 arena between dueling/basing, its very hard to say basing is the 'purpose' of the zone.

[Sufficient]

Keep the dueling/basing is harder and better than basing/dueling out of this thread.

[Troll King]

Currently the top 50% of the map is focused around the base, and the bottom 50% is a deathmatch-style area. No one has pointed out a reason that this needs to change. In fact, no one has pointed out what is wrong with the current pub map that warrants a change

If you want to fuck up base go ahead, use the top 50% of the map to do whatever you want. But just leave that bottom part alone - you dont know what youre doing with it. No one has ever done anything stupid like fuck with that half of the map. You know why? Because its simple, and it works.

And seeing as how its a 50/50 arena between dueling/basing, its very hard to say basing is the 'purpose' of the zone.

Look again. Of the top "50%" of the map, the space to the left and right of the base isn't used for basing. It's hardly used for much of anything actually, except for leviterrs to run from hunters. The base currently takes up just a quarter of the map with the rest is wide open space that suits duelers just fine. Based on the descriptions we've been given, it sounds like there will still be plenty of space, perhaps even close to the 50/50 you think it is now. This new map will put more emphasis on the base, but at the same time, it's not forcing you to base. I don't get why you're so resolute against something that, frankly, you haven't even seen yet. Most of the changes will affect the structure of the base itself, which, based on what you keep saying, you won't even use.

Hell, if you're afraid that the new base will take up too much of the map, then there's one easy solution to that. Enlarge the ring of meteors.

[Chao.]

Look again. Of the top "50%" of the map, the space to the left and right of the base isn't used for basing. It's hardly used for much of anything actually, except for leviterrs to run from hunters. The base currently takes up just a quarter of the map with the rest is wide open space that suits duelers just fine. Based on the descriptions we've been given, it sounds like there will still be plenty of space, perhaps even close to the 50/50 you think it is now. This new map will put more emphasis on the base, but at the same time, it's not forcing you to base. I don't get why you're so resolute against something that, frankly, you haven't even seen yet. Most of the changes will affect the structure of the base itself, which, based on what you keep saying, you won't even use.

Hell, if you're afraid that the new base will take up too much of the map, then there's one easy solution to that. Enlarge the ring of meteors.

One of the things we've tried to do is tighten the circle enough to make the base very prominent, something that's obviously where the most action will take place, but there's room within the courtyard and around the base to do whatever else may interest someone.

[Zerzera]

If you ask me, LJ has much more intricate teaming than LB. You always have to be alert for your teammates, and the better squads will eat bullets for each other. LB requires excellent teamwork from sharks, and in fr fights spids need to cover under and shoot strategically, but I dont think its anything like the teaming in other leagues - you sometimes need to know your teammate in dueling very well to save them from being chased. This is getting off topic now so I'll stop.

Yeah that's what it is about in a cram now, but maintaining a squad that needs 8 players to play a game is a bit harder than maintaining a squad that basicly needs 4. As I said, I wasn't just talking about tactics.
The strong point of basing might be it's weakest point at the same time.
But still, pubbasing only needs a player to join into an existing team, if he prefers duel he should be able to find elim pretty quickly. It's not like it isn't zoned 30 times a day.

Torq, theres a reason you hate analogies. You're bad at them. Unlike weeds in a garden, duelers arent harmful to the rest of the 'garden' and we surely dont stop basers from doing their thing.

I was talking of sub-games in general, like levterring hurts (feeds on) basing. Even duelers hurt pub-basing, if you have two teams of 13 people in a pub, and of one team 4 people are 'dueling' in lower over the other team, it does harm the balance.
Maybe I should've refered to pubduelers as plant lice on the flowers of Trench Wars, but I didn't want to go too far to get my point across. I think it was pretty clear the first time.

It's fine if you think that people come here to duel, but there's been a load of dueling zones that didn't fly. Also elim, that needs no setup for players other than typing ?go elim could harbor anyone that likes duel. It's zoned about every hour, so it shouldn't affect the zone.
Trench Wars started declining when elim had a hour-cap, or maybe the amount of altnicks drasticly decreased when the hour-cap was implemented.
I can see the correlation, the elim hour-cap killed TW.

Still, dueling has been the bread and butter of this zone for so many years. Why would you attempt to change that focus to basing? Because it is the 'focus of the zone'?

For you, and it won't change, elim is still there and zoned, wbduel is still there, twdd is still there, twld will still be part of the twl. Even if basing in pub is regulated, there still will be space for dueling.

Thats part of the fun. You come on and see 3 other people and can get a game, so you end up playing more. You dont have to worry about 7 squaddies being on and 8 people on another squad.

Good for you, some people sticked to this game for years because of 'friends' they made. Some people only stick to this game to show everyone how eleet they are with spaceships, the people they play with can be seen as 3 random people. I know, I've been dueling too. The changes made to public never really affected subspace as a whole, they only made pubbasing in TW more enjoyable.

[Izor]

By your logic of 'theres zoners every hour' then there shouldnt be a base because ?go base is zonered often for basers

TK: Yes there is unused space in that top 50% of the map, but that doesnt mean that the focus of the top 50% isnt the base.

The pub map was very specifically designed to have that 50/50 balance, and its been around longer than most people have been playing. If you want to have your 'courtyard', try expanding the asteroid ring so that theres still the 50/50, and see how many people actually use it. The answer will be very few, because the only reason I've ever seen anyone go into the entance to base is to get 4fers. The real reason behind you bringing in the ring is to make people go into that courtyard and base, otherwise you would be keeping things as they are now and just screwing around with the base layout. "Making the base more prominent" is unnecessary and adversely affects dueling. Look at the top 2 pubs. There are plenty of basers there already. I dont know why you want to force others to play it.

Just look at some of the other suggestions that have been thrown out here to entice people into basing without changing maps. I mean, even if you do change people still wont care about points. A reward system would go a much longer way than a map change toward attracting people.

[Chao.]

By your logic of 'theres zoners every hour' then there shouldnt be a base because ?go base is zonered often for basers

TK: Yes there is unused space in that top 50% of the map, but that doesnt mean that the focus of the top 50% isnt the base.

The pub map was very specifically designed to have that 50/50 balance, and its been around longer than most people have been playing. If you want to have your 'courtyard', try expanding the asteroid ring so that theres still the 50/50, and see how many people actually use it. The answer will be very few, because the only reason I've ever seen anyone go into the entance to base is to get 4fers. The real reason behind you bringing in the ring is to make people go into that courtyard and base, otherwise you would be keeping things as they are now and just screwing around with the base layout. "Making the base more prominent" is unnecessary and adversely affects dueling. Look at the top 2 pubs. There are plenty of basers there already. I dont know why you want to force others to play it.

Just look at some of the other suggestions that have been thrown out here to entice people into basing without changing maps. I mean, even if you do change people still wont care about points. A reward system would go a much longer way than a map change toward attracting people.

Yes, the reason the rock circle is smaller is to make the base more noticeable and prominent, so people realize that's where most of the game will take place. I see no reason to force a 50/50 balance for dueling and basing in the pub. Dueling is not the main purpose of the zone, and I wholeheartedly believe it does not deserve some special equal representation along with basing in the pubs.

[kthx]

Dueling doesn't deserve a 50/50 balance in pubs with basing. Thats funny, if this zone was only basing it would be dead by now as the most active league is dueling. Instead of being narrow-minded "save the basers" type of people how about admitting that this zone isn't what it was originally made for, it has expanded beyond what anyone who created it first thought it would be. Who cares if Basing is originally the intent of the zones creators, players have made other things in Trench Wars just a prominent. Dueling has gone far beyond a relatively small sub-culture in Trench Wars and that isn't going to change. I think the real, final question that you people need to answer before you change the pubs to be more base oriented: Is making basing more popular really worth possibly downsizing other more active leagues and making them obsolete instead of basing? I personally don't think so.

[Chao.]

Dueling doesn't deserve a 50/50 balance in pubs with basing. Thats funny, if this zone was only basing it would be dead by now as the most active league is dueling. Instead of being narrow-minded "save the basers" type of people how about admitting that this zone isn't what it was originally made for, it has expanded beyond what anyone who created it first thought it would be. Who cares if Basing is originally the intent of the zones creators, players have made other things in Trench Wars just a prominent. Dueling has gone far beyond a relatively small sub-culture in Trench Wars and that isn't going to change. I think the real, final question that you people need to answer before you change the pubs to be more base oriented: Is making basing more popular really worth possibly downsizing other more active leagues and making them obsolete instead of basing? I personally don't think so.

Explain to me how changing the base a bit (dueling space is NOT completely gone) to guide newer players towards the fr for basing is going to make them lost interest in doing anything else. If dueling is as popular and as large a part of the zone as you claim then these changes will not hinder it.