Publics

[Sufficient]

You can basically duel in any arena regardless. No one does 4v4 wb dueling in pub. No one does 4v4 jav dueling in pub. It's all 1v1 stuff in spawn area. That can easily be moved to private arenas, ?go duel, ?go tourny. Pub is about basing and dueling in pub is quite poor (random ppl inturrepting duels). And again, lemme point out that no one conducts 4v4 wb duels in pub.

Once again keep the basing/dueling is better/takes more skill out of this thread. The last 10 posts or so are all off topic and chest thumping/humping each other (basers hump each other and duelers humping each other).

[Troll King]

TK: Yes there is unused space in that top 50% of the map, but that doesnt mean that the focus of the top 50% isnt the base.

Um... yes it does. You're more likely to find non-basers than basers in the top half of the map to the left and to the right of the base. How can you argue that those sections are dedicated for basers? If you want to apply a more accurate division of the map, you'll see that only a quarter of the entire map is being used for basing. That is a percentage that needs to be increased.

And for Wark's post, if the zone has indeed strayed from its basing roots then that only shows how important it is that basing does get supported. I think that your and Izor's fears that dueling will be greatly diminished by these changes are greatly exaggerated and little more than fear-mongering.

[Chao.]

You can basically duel in any arena regardless. No one does 4v4 wb dueling in pub. No one does 4v4 jav dueling in pub. It's all 1v1 stuff in spawn area. That can easily be moved to private arenas, ?go duel, ?go tourny. Pub is about basing and dueling in pub is quite poor (random ppl inturrepting duels). And again, lemme point out that no one conducts 4v4 wb duels in pub.

Once again keep the basing/dueling is better/takes more skill out of this thread. The last 10 posts or so are all off topic and chest thumping/humping each other (basers hump each other and duelers humping each other).

There you go. Dueling can be done in any number of arenas, and pubdueling pales in comparison to most of them. That's all I have to say on that subject.

[Hakaku]

Dueling COULD be done in any arena, but won't. Look at other zones for example, they have duel arenas that are no more popular than our ?go duel arena. In TW, you can just jump into a public and shout "come duel at bottom safe!!" and start some dueling. If you shout "come duel at ?go random", people will ignore you.

The point of publics are to promote all aspects of a zone, in TW we have equal amounts of arenas and leagues between basing and dueling (if not more of automated dueling).

If you truly want to concentrate on 1 style of basing, get rid of half your dueling arenas, make ?go base the same as pub well as ?go twbd. Even if they don't have problems with people running around on roofs, we should keep uniformity around the zone.

And you can call it fear or whatever other excuse you want, but changing the map won't do much. As a levi user, I'll make sure to find new spots to ruin basing. How do you expect to improve basing by changing map? Your problem is your settings, fix the levi or limit its use per freq. Fix the weasel before anything for god's sake.

[Chao.]

Your problem is your settings

I will go so far as to say that this has been addressed.

[Izor]

Basing can be done in any number of arenas too, but that is besides the point and this is quickly becoming a penis wagging argument of which game is better. No one is going to understand how the other side can have more fun playing what they like to play.

Point is, objectively speaking, lots more people enjoy dueling than they do basing. Can you deny this? I doubt it. At least I doubt that you can prove that people enjoy basing more, because it is much less played in comparison. So why would you change the pub to detract from that?

What I fear from a major change is that people will log onto this zone, and even if they like to duel, the pub will undoubtedly show favoritism to basing, and since its pub they will think "hey, thats what this zone is all about". They wont know about elim or ?go base or TWD or TWL. If they dont enjoy the focal point of the game, they wont play it. That is why I said its important to keep the 50/50 balance that is currently in place to show that the 2 are equally treated in this zone (and they are, TWD/TWL/elims and ?go base).

[Mootland Farmer]

Ok, I think this issue is getting sidetracked fast. What I propose is I make a list of changes that have been suggested, and try them out. Whatever we do, it will be too ALL Public arenas. What do you guys reckon?

[Troll King]

You're speaking as if basing and dueling in pubs are on an equal footing and are currently equals, and that any change to encourage basing will upset that balance. At the same time, you're saying that more people are dueling than basing. That should tell you already that it's not a 50/50 split right now and that pub basing does need a push before it becomes so.

Which is it? Pick one argument or the other, but put them together and they cancel each other out.

[Weaver]

I apologize in advance for not reading all 4 pages of this thread, I'm a bit preoccupied with other things. I had an idea for pub changes and I thought I'd throw it out here.


Put the levis back in the pubs with a few changes:

1) remove the safes so terrs aren't able to warp to a place of sure safety when they are in trouble.

2) Increase attach bounty of levs to maybe 40 so its not as easy to green up.

Without a safe, levis wont be able to sit in a safe and have a friend green them as easily. They also wont be able to ?buy their way to 20 bounty.

Just my thoughts on the topic. It might be worth a try for a day or two unless everyone thinks the idea its a really stupid =)

[Mootland Farmer]

Well, we tested the new map today for a bit. Went well I thought, but there seems to be some more changes.

Note: This isn't a permanent solution. Just trying out stuff at the moment.

Edit: The arena name is ?go altpub

[Izor]

1) remove the safes so terrs aren't able to warp to a place of sure safety when they are in trouble.

Safes are kinda lame like that...BUT have you ever tried bountying with any ship and not using the safeties? its impossible. This goes hand in hand with 2, though

TK: no, my two points do not conflict. I say that the pubs should equally promote the two types of games to give players the choice of what they like, and that more people like dueling, so I dont see how that conflicts. Usually if more people like something you enhance it to attract even more people. You dont take away from it.

ok, ive seen altpub, and its ready for my criticism. I'll try to keep it constructive since it seems a map change is going to be unavoidable with the people im dealing with.

- Yes dueling is very restricted in that, and it doesnt take a genius to see that. If you rush someone the only place to go is through the spawn zone where you will get spawned, or to the safety.

- Who would ever, EVER go in the little arm things that define the courtyard? They might as well be closed off.

- The objective was to allow LTs and levis back in the game, but you've also severely restricted them. Someone is going to camp the safety, it will be very difficult to green, and even after they do there is no protection from other levis killing them. Also they cant go outside cause there isnt anything to do there. Whats the point? You can do that in the existing setup by just extending levi restrictions

[Mootland Farmer]

That's the purpose of testing. Trying out different things. I've told you several times, that a map change is NOT the only solution, so stop being silly.

[Dr. Snyder]

What gets me is why no one ever bothers bitching about shark mining in pure pubs... I mean I understand not alot of people do it, but its so much easier than lting, you can get similar bounties and because of lag mines you are often able to get 10 kills before needing new mines.

Maybe we could increase the turret penalties for thrust and speed... I know asss allows this feature.

so many different ways to be lame and thats what makes tw fun and interesting.

[Izor]

That's the purpose of testing. Trying out different things. I've told you several times, that a map change is NOT the only solution, so stop being silly.

I wasnt being silly - I brought up issues with that map that I feel need to be addressed, and I did so saying I would (try to) keep it constructive.

[Jones]

no one should be forcing anyone to play anything, it's up to a player what he wants to do while in pub. the thing that is good with pure pubs is making it only two freqs and no levis.

btw, comparing 8v8 to 4v4 is the first step of newbiness in my opinion. dueling is 5v5 as simple as that

edit: the first impression i got from altpub was it hurts the outside base players and does nothing for basing