An interesting conversation with Mootland about Pub I would like you to read.

[Mootland Farmer]

The reason why we don't/shouldn't have ship limitations; A theory by one of my dear friends, which I happen to agree.

When Leviathans were removed partially from Publics, if you had been playing in Pure Publics, you may have noticed that there was an increase in Javelins and team killing. Why? Because there was nothing to blast them of the walls, so instead they camped in flagroom lobbing bombs into mid-base. Great. Then when the weasel was changed, it was found to be dueling Warbirds and Terriers. Pretty much not the point of the weasel.

What I am getting at is that major changes or limitations on ships adversely affected other ships, which wasn't the desired effect of the changes in the first place.

By bringing back Leviathans, we are also removing team killing Javelins. By changing the Weasel (for example), we are brining it back to what it should be, an assassin, just like the Leviathan is a siege weapon.

[DJSlayer]

Sump ... you got some good arguments and I can see the logic behind them but ... I think the general idea is that if we started putting ship limitations in pub it would no longer be what pub is meant to be, it starts to turn into another ?go base.

Don't start whining about me making assumptions and jumping the gun here but you limit levis to 1 per freq ... eventually people will start whining about that and they will be disabled in all pubs. Next people will target the weasel and that will be limited and eventually disabled ... then what comes next? Pub is perfect? I doubt it ... next it will be ... "limit javs cause of tking newbs" or ... "lamecasters are over-powered get rid of them"

When you start to limit stuff people expect all ships causing the smallest problem should be limited ... eventually leading to pub becoming terrs, sharks and spids only ... which is NOT what is wanted.

If you wanna whine about liking the old settings and the zone being killed because of changed settings ... why don't we just put everything back to how it was when TW first started? Because it was changed for the better/still working on improving. Original settings were good ... zone started to die ... changes were made ... zone picked up again ... zone is starting to die again ... now we changing to make sure we can get the flow back again.

Unless drastic changes were made then the chances of another DSB is unlikely so ... stop ya worrying, and I'm confident if the changes were THAT bad Moot would have the sense to put it back again. He's not as stupid as he looks you know, contrary to popular belief. =P

[Mootland Farmer]

Mootland, a levi protected, that's nice, I think when there is only 1 levi a freq it will be allot more meaningfull, the story which you discribed will be more likely to happen with 1 levi a freq.

It happened without ship limitations.

[Sumpson]

A poll like this might be a good idea:

I would like to have the levi's limited to 1 a freq
I would like the shipsettings of the levi to be balanced
I don't play levi neither do I care about it

--

Mootland, a levi protected, that's nice, I think when there is only 1 levi a freq it will be allot more meaningfull, the story which you discribed will be more likely to happen with 1 levi a freq.

[Chao.]

I think more people first need to realize what TK said: If anything, these changing are making the levi actually BALANCED with the other ships. Too many seem unwilling to acknowledge that for far too long those bombs were too strong.

[Mootland Farmer]

Agreed. Limiting ships is definitely not the way to go unless it was all out. From the past few days I've seen a few cool things. I was monitoring a public and I saw a team protect a Leviathan into base and take out the opposition team. I've seen Leviathans in flagroom fights and only stuff near the bomb died, meaning the whole of one side wasn't obliterated. Giving the enemy Terrier a chance to hide in lower or in the ear of flagroom from the blast.

[DJSlayer]

Sumpson has some good ideas ... they are all being misinterpreted though ... -_-

Having an MVP and end of game layout similar to ?go base would work. It adds some kind of goal to basing without saying, "you must base, get yo ass in there" However ... it has been stated and agreed on numerous times that pub is about putting emphasis on basing without limiting any ships and what can be done in base. So ... limiting levis is just stupid.

Adding a bot to get more goals while basing in pub will (in theory) increase competitiveness in pub while still making it possible to LT ... although, I've heard about 10 million shouts of, "try making sugestions when you actually pub" so ... I'ma shutup now =P Spamming on forums will never get the pubbers opinion so this in thoery is pointless.

Go spam your idea in pub Sump then see what people? You'll be plesantly surprised how many people wouldn't want levi limited ... and how many want the levi adjusted. I've even seen Lt'ers say they wanna be able to LT in a way more useful to basing ... current LTing just involves everyone in FR dying ... including teammates, which is just stupid!

[RageRitual]

If you denie all of sumpson's suggestions you should atleast fix that team leader thing. Last I checked it was set to who got the most flag claims? I also have sat an entire match sitting afk and got MVP for it what is up with that? Making MVP's more competitive will help yes, but it will not solve everything by itself. I hate LT's personally but alot of players play them, limiting them to 2 per pub would hurt more then help. The temporary levi situation answer is simple, some pubs with, some pubs without.

[Fair]

After reading this lenghty post yes all!, i agree with sumpson in some ways a bot would be good to show the times of flag held ect but not to limit levs.

I havent experienced the new lev settings yet as my isp has been down for couple of days.

And some people have mentioned changing ships back to old days which i think would be awsome, get that fricking cloaker back to the same size as every other ship ffs they allready have cloak and stealth this was OTT.

and people for blimey sake stop insulting each other and discuss you trash talking hippies sumpson has taken alot of stick from just throwing some ideas around, also people have discussed settings and these are or have been tested so how about throw sump a bone and test a bot
(i understand the time it takes to create this but at least get the flag time working and go from there its only fair these ideas get tested just like the frickin cloaker)

As for basing in pub yeah i remember the old days when base was fun to hold and it still is ok we cant force people to base and we shouldnt souly try to do this but flag is the key to team to hold (or is the flag there just for fun?!!?)

But consider making spawn smaller? or spawn people higher.

Ill look forward to testing the new lev later

[Nethila]

lets put all these arguments aside for a sec, and just look at the fact:

new lev settings were up this weeked, i played/specced pub for a few times. True, outside LTers did sort of decreased. But inside base LT increased. Because the lev's bomb damage increased, even tho the blast radius got smaller... FR or mid-fr is only THIS big. The increased damage actually caused more deaths.


i welcome changes. but im not a big fan of FR being flooded with LTs.

[Hero*]

Sumpson i know you arent FORCING people to base but you are HIGHLY ENCOURAGING THEM TO BASE. Its the same fucking thing dude. Soemone said to change all the shit back to normal; levs with reps, portal. BIg ass weasel. I agree. That shit was fun! If i come into pub and im incouraged to go to base, thats basically the same as forcing. I'd rather wb and jav the shit out of ppl trying to enter by the yellow bar.

Ex of what you're doing:
alright guys, we have two entrances to attack from. gate one has 2 spiders guarding and gate 2 has 4javs, 9spiders, 3 terrs and 2 levs. Which one would you choose? I'm not forcing you to take a certain entrance but you're a retard if you choose gate 2.

[lunch3]

One way to change levs in basing and to prevent lting is somehow not allow levs to attach to terr, but if they have high enuf bounty they can attach to the inside of fr when their team has flag. Not even sure if that type of programming is possible with how tw runs, but something outside the box like that would improve the game imo.

limiting the amount of levs in pubs would also help, and maybe instead of points determining who can lev, the people who should lev are those that hardly tk, so maybe rating should be taken into account for this type of thing in deciding who is allowed to lev.

i myself rather they still have that huge blast radius, but whatever works.

[Sumpson]

I don't think the change of Levi settings is good, I don't think the change is needed. I hope the basing bot will be here soon.

[Mootland Farmer]

The Leviathan settings the Public Committee are proposing requires that Leviathans actually aim for their kills? (by lowering the blast radius) The rest of the Leviathan settings are to the same as they originally were.

[Sumpson]

So by forcing, you mean they can play whatever they want?

No, they can't play the ship they liked, and they never will be able to again.

ps. Ok you have given some arguments but none has conviced me.