An interesting conversation with Mootland about Pub I would like you to read.

[Sumpson]

Ok well then you're saying pub is fine and everyone should be messing around in it. I would like it to have a goal, what other goal to set in pub beside basing? oh wait.. King Of the Hill might be good beside all the basing attraction.

[Tigron-X]

like ?go javs for ?go baseelim ?

exactly!

pubs should be like that for ?go base

Why? I don't think it should because TW isn't all about basing. So, by making Pubs conform to just basing, then that in turn undermines everything else TW has to offer.

[Sumpson]

like ?go javs for ?go baseelim ?

pubs should be like that for ?go base

[Tigron-X]

The only map which could promote basing is the map currently used in TW for basing, changing the map would rip the basing scene apart. I don't want to play a different game, and I believe there's many others with me in the basing scene.

I meant like making an arena that promotes basing. One that's better at promoting basing than ?go base. Keep ?go base, but have something that doesn't limit people to being picked.

[bkgmjo]

OK, I've read this entire thread. And, I was agreeing with Sumpson a lot in terms of promoting basing in Pubs, and most likely because I love basing. So I already had the same perspectice as he did coming in here.

However, I never realized that making one pub a Pure-Pub might have turned TW into a game that only promotes basing until just now. Because, all the action eventually goes to the first Pub on the list. It has in the past, so why would that change now? And does that mean people want basing? Probably not, but that's all there is now with out waiting on games to start in other maps or events to be hosted. So yes, in a sense, people are forced to base until something else happens. And that's wrong.

In other words, players don't have a choice anymore beyond basing except to go to elim, baseelim, ?go base, or other maps, but then you have to wait to play. And, that sucks.

See... the best thing about playing in Pubs has always been that you don't have to wait to play. You can go into a Pub and be whatever ship you want, when you want, and play like you want to play without any hasstle from anyone. You don't have to be an allstar wb, jav, baser, and so on to enjoy TW's ship settings. You just hit esc+# and enjoy TW. (Also, with that said, no limiting ships per freq either.)

Anyhow.... so, ever since Pure-Pub came along, all people have been allowed to do is base, and that has killed the massive free-for-all that everyone use to enjoy. Basically, the massive free-for-all provided a little bit of competitive basing, a little bit of lt'ing, and a lot of spawning. And I think because of that, it branched out into what became elim, TWD, ?go base, and so on. And that's what's awesome about TW. You find what you like and then expand into the competitvness associated with that ship; whether it be basing or dueling. And I think that's what everyone loves about TW. However, Pure-Pub seems to have turned TW into only basing. At least that's what I'm understanding from reading this thread.


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BTW, I don't understand what the issue is with the Weasels. I like the whole idea that they're like assassins. That was the first thing I realized when they were made small. So, the message is there. What's the problem with the ship the way it is now?


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And to address Sumpsons concern of promoting basing, why don't we make a map with Pure-Pub like settings? And advertise it in some way?

I mean, we can all agree that ?go base is a bit elitist, so it fails to promote basing. In other words, it doesn't compare with elim's or baseelim's ability to promote dueling. So all in all, it seems like the underlining probelm that we face here is finding a way for TW to promote basing without destorying the massive free-for-all in Pubs because dueling is already covered.

So, what about a new map that promotes basing that isn't a Pub?

I don't know what Sumpson's bot idea provided, but maybe it can be used there?

i really agree with you there. a pub has to be for the pub and not limit players in their options. all specialized stuff has to be an event. because that really is no public anymore. and it does not always have to be the same. if we have so many ppl who love ?go base...may it stay 24/7. i dont really care as long as there are still people in pubs. but we have so many other basing maps that could all be hosted too, i just barely see that. just the standard lame boring "next elim game" "basing starting" and "xy has a run in ?go duel" ads all the time. if finally something gets hosted it is the same worn out stuff that everyone can already play with closed eyes. i dont really know why it has to be like that if there is so many volunteers for hosting events. and also i dont get why a game like ?go starcon that was damn crowded years ago gets hosted while the host has no clue at all that there is a bot neccessary for it. and after finally finding that nonexistant bot cant find anyone that tells him how it works. nice idea to host something you were asked for, but i wouldnt mind some stafftraining on things like that. im taking the starcon example because it already happened like 10 times to me, the hosts dont know how to host...and then you get disconnected all the time because of that 5-death disconnect rule(that i think is the worst idea put into the game ever since not idle players in a ship block the pubs but specs do).the last time i saw it hosted the way it is supposed to be was years ago.

to your idea of the pure pub as an event. i said the same in another thread i think, even tho i dont belive it would get that much attention anymore after people get used to play pubs with levis again. i would like to see the old basing weekends coming back though.

the thing with the weasel is.... it does not really fit into teaming. you know me as L O V E and u know i always play that ship. but even tho i love it, and love to duel with it, hunt lancs and terrs that are supposed to hunt me, it is a loner, can defend itself against everything, even other cloaks. going into the basing action with other ships than other weasels and a terr is useless. one shrap or a bomb a little too close and u go boom at once. it is only good for hit and run tactics at base. and terrs really dont have the time to give out a warning anymore. when i rush into base cloaked i get my first kill before someone can even read the warning, when 3 cloaks rush base the half base is killed before people get what is happening. for the whole basing thing it would be great if it was slower but then again it is way too weak outside. thats why i think the old weasel how it was was the best choice to have a fair deal between the bonus of cloaking and the lack of attacking power. maybe give it a little faster shots than it originally had but thats it. the only thing you really have to change when you make weasels big again is the lancs radar tho.

[Sumpson]

The only map which could promote basing is the map currently used in TW for basing, changing the map would rip the basing scene apart. I don't want to play a different game, and I believe there's many others with me in the basing scene.

The way I want it to be, you can do anything you like in pub.
The way pure pub is you can do anything you like.

However, the difference there with my idea and the pure pub is, my idea allows 1 levi a freq, pure pub allows no levi.

My thread summary:

To promote basing we need to get rid of the levi?

"yes we do, we gotta change it, can't base with the current levi"

"it is possible to play basing with levi's around, but not with tons of levi's, 1 levi a freq allows basing."

"no change needed, let players play whatever they like, however we need to promote basing"

I believe the first step to promote basing would be to implement the time race game with scores/MVP at end.
I think this will get pubs more competitive, and when being more competitive, levi's will be a lesser problem.

[Tigron-X]

OK, I've read this entire thread. And, I was agreeing with Sumpson a lot in terms of promoting basing in Pubs, and most likely because I love basing. So I already had the same perspectice as he did coming in here.

However, I never realized that making one pub a Pure-Pub might have turned TW into a game that only promotes basing until just now. Because, all the action eventually goes to the first Pub on the list. It has in the past, so why would that change now? And does that mean people want basing? Probably not, but that's all there is now with out waiting on games to start in other maps or events to be hosted. So yes, in a sense, people are forced to base until something else happens. And that's wrong.

In other words, players don't have a choice anymore beyond basing except to go to elim, baseelim, ?go base, or other maps, but then you have to wait to play. And, that sucks.

See... the best thing about playing in Pubs has always been that you don't have to wait to play. You can go into a Pub and be whatever ship you want, when you want, and play like you want to play without any hasstle from anyone. You don't have to be an allstar wb, jav, baser, and so on to enjoy TW's ship settings. You just hit esc+# and enjoy TW. (Also, with that said, no limiting ships per freq either.)

Anyhow.... so, ever since Pure-Pub came along, all people have been allowed to do is base, and that has killed the massive free-for-all that everyone use to enjoy. Basically, the massive free-for-all provided a little bit of competitive basing, a little bit of lt'ing, and a lot of spawning. And I think because of that, it branched out into what became elim, TWD, ?go base, and so on. And that's what's awesome about TW. You find what you like and then expand into the competitvness associated with that ship; whether it be basing or dueling. And I think that's what everyone loves about TW. However, Pure-Pub seems to have turned TW into only basing. At least that's what I'm understanding from reading this thread.


------------------------------------------------------


BTW, I don't understand what the issue is with the Weasels. I like the whole idea that they're like assassins. That was the first thing I realized when they were made small. So, the message is there. What's the problem with the ship the way it is now?


------------------------------------------------------

And to address Sumpsons concern of promoting basing, why don't we make a map with Pure-Pub like settings? And advertise it in some way?

I mean, we can all agree that ?go base is a bit elitist, so it fails to promote basing. In other words, it doesn't compare with elim's or baseelim's ability to promote dueling. So all in all, it seems like the underlining probelm that we face here is finding a way for TW to promote basing without destorying the massive free-for-all in Pubs because dueling is already covered.

So, what about a new map that promotes basing that isn't a Pub?

I don't know what Sumpson's bot idea provided, but maybe it can be used there?

[Eck.]

IM WITH U ALL THE WAY trenchwars is getting ruined and its pissing me off



Over my Head: Don't care. You don't speak to me like that


WHO THE FUK ARE YOU dont speak to me like that ROFLMMFAO

Moderators really do think there gods or sumthing dont they

Can all u mods email me ur addresses and what time ur usally home so we can um talk about stuff

[Leaf]

Gah, only read like 3/4 of the first page.
My opinions about public is this:

Before the pure pub bots came I never played pub, maybe went into wb once in a while killing in spawn getting some bounty.
But now I can actually play pub some times, I really agree with Sump getting the MVP changing into 1 person because now it's just crap.
TW is still dead, no one is ever playing baseelim and I have to fucking complaint, no one ever fucking hosts, and when they do it's crapevents. I've seen Left_Eye doing a good job but rest is just fucking around, for fucks sake. More staffers than ever and still you host crap and taking no requests at all, instead I get warned for stating my opinion in staff chat or getting a !stfu tell for asking something valid, way to improve the zone! I actually thought being gone for a while would make me want to play SS again but with TW like this, I might aswell remove the game from my computer.

Edit: Sorry if I post the complaints here but people might actually read this ^_^

[RageRitual]

As much as I HATE levi's, limiting them in a "pub" feels like a bad idea, I mean it is pub as many have said previously in this thread. Maybe levi's would not be as bad if they were not able to join a pub and be attached to a terrier 30 seconds later from people switching freq and suiciding to get the levi's bounty up. This is why the levi is lame, they come in, get bounty up without having to earn it, then they attach to a terrier. The terrier does all the work setting up shots, all the levi really has to do is push the fire key on their keyboard when the terrier is lined up. I ask you where is the skill? They get this overpowered bomb they lob around killing everything in site (friendly or not) without haven to earn a single kill.

Anyone consider that? Maybe I am simply rambling, but it needs to be adressed.

[Sumpson]

people who don't pub or who haven't pub'd in years need to stop trying to act like they know what's best for pubs.

Try to make sense and tell me why i'm wrong instead of making useless comments like these.

And yes your right, the day I started playing TW I started playing ?go base. I started playing TW after about 5 years of subspace, I have played a couple zones, and owned a couple zones. TW Pub doesn't make sense to me, Its not intense.


oh yah btw:

is there a problem?

basing can't happen with levi's around.

is it true?

no.

This does only say that the problem is not too big for a need of shipchanges.
The problem is you can't base with levi's around when there's like 10 levi's on a freq. You can with 1 on a freq.

[Predator Rulez]

I couldn't be arsed to read the whole conversation.. You lost me in the middle.. a summary would have been nice..

Anyways.. I'm sticking with moot.. he knows his stuff..

[Kontrolz]

changing settings doesnt seem like an option to me, its what makes the game, and what gets people online for.

If you need to limit how many of any ship a freq is allowed to use then it is overpowered and doesn't add/help to pub (keyword being pub) action. It's clear that changing some settings are necessary.

As far as there not being problem, you haven't played this zone that long Sump, and when you started you didn't even play pub for that long. I've been playing in TW publics daily since 1999-2000 (and off and on since 98). I also still play pub daily. I think I just have to let you know since you seem to be ignorant on the subject, yes there is a problem more than one actually. But instead of getting into every single problem with settings I'll just address the one that appears in this thread over and over and many other threads:

people who don't pub or who haven't pub'd in years need to stop trying to act like they know what's best for pubs.

If you don't even think there is a problem with pub settings (which you've stated over and over again sump) then it's obvious you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Hopefully "telling" you there is will inform you and maybe open your eyes, coming from a real pubber.

[Mootland Farmer]

You seem very anti ship limiting, you know it must be horrible to the levi's now to not be able to fight against basing.

This is what you have in pure pubs, no levi playing at all, now that's what i call limiting ships.

change settings to solve the problem?

is there a problem?

basing can't happen with levi's around.

is it true?

no.

As I have explained many times to you, one of the goals for better Public competition and consistency is that all ships are allowed in every arena. Do you see Leviathan limitations in Publics now? No, you don't. As I've also explained to you I'm trying to steer away from as well. Basing can't happen with Leviathans? Yes it certainly can. I've seen evidence if it because I actually play in Publics. Is there a problem? Yes, it's you.

changing settings doesnt seem like an option to me, its what makes the game, and what gets people online for.

People are naturally scared of change. This is a basic managerial concept. Trench Wars has continually changed in terms of ship settings. Even before I played there were many ship setting changes, and that was far before the peak of Trench Wars. Who's to say these changes won't have the same either?

neither do I think it is needed.
1 levi a freq would make the game competitive and interesting. who will get the levi, who will have the most points to be able to choose the levi?
And finally the levi has its meaning, being brutal to basing. but can it? not if a team works together for basing, its just one levi.
The levi would need allot of protection which would get people have to work together on their goal and win the basing game.

A team can work together and eliminate Leviathans and LTs right now, instead of bitching, despite the Leviathan being slightly underpowered as it was before.

[Sumpson]

Sump ... you got some good arguments and I can see the logic behind them but ... I think the general idea is that if we started putting ship limitations in pub it would no longer be what pub is meant to be, it starts to turn into another ?go base.

Don't start whining about me making assumptions and jumping the gun here but you limit levis to 1 per freq ... eventually people will start whining about that and they will be disabled in all pubs. Next people will target the weasel and that will be limited and eventually disabled ... then what comes next? Pub is perfect? I doubt it ... next it will be ... "limit javs cause of tking newbs" or ... "lamecasters are over-powered get rid of them"

When you start to limit stuff people expect all ships causing the smallest problem should be limited ... eventually leading to pub becoming terrs, sharks and spids only ... which is NOT what is wanted.

If you wanna whine about liking the old settings and the zone being killed because of changed settings ... why don't we just put everything back to how it was when TW first started? Because it was changed for the better/still working on improving. Original settings were good ... zone started to die ... changes were made ... zone picked up again ... zone is starting to die again ... now we changing to make sure we can get the flow back again.

Unless drastic changes were made then the chances of another DSB is unlikely so ... stop ya worrying, and I'm confident if the changes were THAT bad Moot would have the sense to put it back again. He's not as stupid as he looks you know, contrary to popular belief. =P

You seem very anti ship limiting, you know it must be horrible to the levi's now to not be able to fight against basing.

This is what you have in pure pubs, no levi playing at all, now that's what i call limiting ships.

change settings to solve the problem?

is there a problem?

basing can't happen with levi's around.

is it true?

no.



changing settings doesnt seem like an option to me, its what makes the game, and what gets people online for.

neither do I think it is needed.
1 levi a freq would make the game competitive and interesting. who will get the levi, who will have the most points to be able to choose the levi?
And finally the levi has its meaning, being brutal to basing. but can it? not if a team works together for basing, its just one levi.
The levi would need allot of protection which would get people have to work together on their goal and win the basing game.

I think its good yes