Distension Beta Suggestions/Bugfix thread

[gdugwyler]

Changes: (forgot to add what I did yesterday)

• Shark: Starts with 2 reps, gets a 3rd at rank 4. Max 5 repels, the 4th and 5th being available quite a bit later. First (and now second and third) regen available earlier.
• Terr: More portals available. As of today I will also increase how much each upgrade of recharge and energy give. (See below.) Multifire is now much more expensive, but has a spread almost as tight as the Lanc. Those interested in a more offensive build for the Terr should consider it.
• Shark/Terr limits: Implemented. You can now only have +1 shark than the other team, and +2 terrs. (The Terr limit is wide because in an early game, if two people want to Terr and no-one on the other team has yet entered a Terr, they should still be able to do this.)

TKs: Presently the TK penalty as compared to the amount earned per kill is drastically different, and widening with every increase of the beta multiplier. This is due to negative RP not having the bonus figured into it. When there's no multiplier, TK penalties are going to be much more severe in comparison to TKs. To reflect this I will have the bot manually figure in the multiplier. This means TKs will reduce RP 3.9 times of what they are presently. This may seem grossly unfair, but this is the number we should be starting with and adjusting from, as it's proportionally equivalent to how the TK penalty will work when Dist is released. If this is not sufficient we'll look at the other more complex options from there. Note that a PubBot will be in Distension at public release, and will have TK monitoring enabled just as in pub. ::report will be active, and intentional/excessive TKing will be the usual warn-able/ban-able offense.

Terr: I can't increase the delay between firing and being able to use a portal due to config constraints, but I can try upping the recharge and energy a slight bit -- more on the recharge than energy. I would like to keep portals at the present level, though, or at least for the meantime. Even moreso than bursts, ports are a defining part of the Terr (with attachability being the most), and while this will make the ship harder to kill ... as it should be ... it will also allow for a great deal more tactical options on the part of the intelligent player.

Spider multi: With the addition of a now-useful super, the delay between shots of spider multi has been increased slightly, while the amount of energy required to fire the multi is reduced slightly.

Spider anti: Spider anti cost has been reduced, as is the energy cost to have it on. However, the range of effect is also reduced.

Limiting system: Sorry about the problems. It's as yet untested. I'm planning on having it at 50, but need it at 40 right now to be able to make sure it works. Also, yes, there is a possibility of having multiple Dist arenas. Will have to see the server load.

Investigating the crash as well. Looks like an unusual exception.

[DankNuggets]

re: terr suggestions

i think that a higher top energy (even though it's already pretty high) might help terrs survive longer and make some of these one-hit-kills go away (altougth there's not too much you can do to defend against bursts and lvl 3 anything), but i also think that one of the reasons for the complaints is that the terrs are upgrading to lvl 2 bullets as soon as they can. The best way to get kills as a terr isn't to chase down a ship 1v1 both at full nrg and gun it out-- the majority of terr kills (at least that i get now) are with lvl one bullets being sprayed somewhat randomly in fr battles. The reason is i can shoot 3-4 and still survive a lvl 1 bullet, but the spiders/lancs/wbs with lvl 2 bullets often can't. Also, while they are eventually going for the terr, most of the time i can vulch several kills while they're shooting my support.

In sum, I think that the more bullets (not more powerful ones) that are a better solution for terrs b/c it gives them more oppurtunities to hit more people, a larger spray to hit people, and it leaves them with enough energy to take a hit or two. So maybe lower the bullet cost for terrs? Decoys to throw off attackers? Rebounding bullets?

re: sharks suggestions

its sucks even more to play a low level shark than any other ship, even terr. if they had more reps to start with, one or maybe two upgrades to 4 and then 5 reps later. Or instead of upgrading to 4 ever, which allows for fr charges, cap it low and give them regen at a low level? as for later level sharks, it's a bit overpowering as is, but i would like to see the firing rate upped anyway- that side arm lvl 1 bullet should be more useful

re: jav rockets/sharp

the rocket on a jav is my favorite feature from pub, and i still think it really helps get that one sure kill. it seems fine as is, but maybe its seems ineffective b/c a lot of ppl still have low level turning/top spd? As for shrap, i feel i get killed way too often from lvl 3 shrap. i think it should be capped at lvl 2 until waaaaay high ranks, but let them get higher levels of it. a bloom of level 1 shrap is more fun to play with than 2-3 lvl 3 shraps anyway.

Misc questions:
Will any ship get rebounding bullets? Will anyship get bricks? Can ships have inverted reps and others still have normal ones?

[meddi]

I think teamkilling should be like it is in pub, you get 1 reminder from pubbot about the first time someone teamkills you and gives you the option to ::report it or whatever thereafter. Between the teamkiller and the victim, there needs to be a 3rd party to decide how to handle it, because sometimes victims can be overzealous about getting someone banned for teamkilling them, when in reality the teamkiller hasn't done enough wrong to be disciplined. It's going to be a massive failure if the bot tries to police this by the numbers alone.

I don't see what is wrong with increasing RP penalties as TK frequency increases. This isn't about banning intentional TKers, it is about discouraging stupid shots by ships with increasingly more devastating bombs.

[Mjollnir]

Ahh the terr... it used to be one of my favorites to play (still is in pub), but it has been troubling me over the past few weeks. I just couldn't nail down why it seemed to have become more and more painful to play, to the point now that I just refuse to switch into it. And not just since the burst changes, but before, and worsening since. I think I've finally come to the conclusion that it's just far too vulnerable. Yet it's held not only to the high standard of a pub terr (staying alive), but even more so as backup terrs in Distension are a very rare sight.

In pub, the terr concerns include the wb, a jav bomb, the weasel and the opposing terrier bursts (as far as one hit kills go). But in Distension, the wb is faster and it has spread bullets. The weasel is faster, comes with a portal and a rocket. The jav doesn't just have the bomb, it has a crapload of one-kill shrap and a wider radius. And we also have the Levi with it's radius -- both teammates and not, which have the potential to make you vulnerable to one hit kills by every other ship out there. Then of course there's the super spider which is equally troublesome now and even a bit of a threat from the sharks. To top that off, my terr at rank 43 is vulnerable to just one red bullet if I shoot just once. Granted, I have a lvl 2 bullet. But how many can eat that level 2 bullet? And since there appears to be a delay on the terrier after shooting or bursting that prohibits it from portalling away immediately, shooting now nearly guarantees your death. That leaves the terrier being OK to play, if you play 100% cautiously and portal away at the slightest bit of trouble. And that's just too boring to play. The extra bursts may have made up for this vulnerability earlier on, but now that they're gone AND the other ships are continuing to increase their bullet and bomb strength, its just made the terr impossible to survive in.

So I don't think the portals are a good idea for the terrier. Perhaps more/cheaper energy and recharge upgrades. Or the other ships need to be reduced (definitely to include the one kill shrap).

I didn't want to be one of the ones crying that their favorite ship was nerfed, and so I just switched to the spid/lanc. But it seems the lack of terriers in the game problem continues on, which affects me no matter what ship I'm in. So there you have it, my 2 cents. :turned:

-ali

Agreed with the Terrier part. Less portals, more energy and recharge. Especially the recharge could be upped a lot I bet. Just have to make sure it isn't impossible to kill a terr with yellow bullets because that's what people will have for a long time when the ships get reset. Oh.. and the Jav sharp isn't a one-hit-kill but a yellow bullet (for my jav at least).

[alinea]

<snip>
Terr power: I'd like to do a couple of things with the Terr to make it more desirable after the burst change. The first is to give it the option to be able to stay alive longer and still be offensive. This can be accomplished by more numerous and cheaper portals. If a terr doesn't have to rely on what is usually a single port for emergency escape, it can use a spare for an offensive move. The second is increasing bullet speed very slightly (very). Finally, if the multi is not being used very often anyway, I can tighten the spread and make it cost slightly less than a normal shot, but with a large UP cost. This gives a Terr an option to make an offensive build by focusing on the gunning systems, if they're willing to sink the points into it. Opinions on this?

Ahh the terr... it used to be one of my favorites to play (still is in pub), but it has been troubling me over the past few weeks. I just couldn't nail down why it seemed to have become more and more painful to play, to the point now that I just refuse to switch into it. And not just since the burst changes, but before, and worsening since. I think I've finally come to the conclusion that it's just far too vulnerable. Yet it's held not only to the high standard of a pub terr (staying alive), but even more so as backup terrs in Distension are a very rare sight.

In pub, the terr concerns include the wb, a jav bomb, the weasel and the opposing terrier bursts (as far as one hit kills go). But in Distension, the wb is faster and it has spread bullets. The weasel is faster, comes with a portal and a rocket. The jav doesn't just have the bomb, it has a crapload of one-kill shrap and a wider radius. And we also have the Levi with it's radius -- both teammates and not, which have the potential to make you vulnerable to one hit kills by every other ship out there. Then of course there's the super spider which is equally troublesome now and even a bit of a threat from the sharks. To top that off, my terr at rank 43 is vulnerable to just one red bullet if I shoot just once. Granted, I have a lvl 2 bullet. But how many can eat that level 2 bullet? And since there appears to be a delay on the terrier after shooting or bursting that prohibits it from portalling away immediately, shooting now nearly guarantees your death. That leaves the terrier being OK to play, if you play 100% cautiously and portal away at the slightest bit of trouble. And that's just too boring to play. The extra bursts may have made up for this vulnerability earlier on, but now that they're gone AND the other ships are continuing to increase their bullet and bomb strength, its just made the terr impossible to survive in.

So I don't think the portals are a good idea for the terrier. Perhaps more/cheaper energy and recharge upgrades. Or the other ships need to be reduced (definitely to include the one kill shrap).

I didn't want to be one of the ones crying that their favorite ship was nerfed, and so I just switched to the spid/lanc. But it seems the lack of terriers in the game problem continues on, which affects me no matter what ship I'm in. So there you have it, my 2 cents. :turned:

-ali

[Aquatiq]

I think teamkilling should be like it is in pub, you get 1 reminder from pubbot about the first time someone teamkills you and gives you the option to ::report it or whatever thereafter. Between the teamkiller and the victim, there needs to be a 3rd party to decide how to handle it, because sometimes victims can be overzealous about getting someone banned for teamkilling them, when in reality the teamkiller hasn't done enough wrong to be disciplined. It's going to be a massive failure if the bot tries to police this by the numbers alone.

[meddi]

I am all for having the bot track TKs and provide players with warnings, increased RP penalties, or whatever. I am against, however, anything player controlled. It seems like cause for trouble.

[Epic li]

Team Kills

Ok, so today i decided to play a test and i was beeing tteamkilled like hell, i think the -RP for tk's is good, but not enought.
When i was playing in lev, i just wouldnt care about the negative rp, really, what's -50 RP, when the kill you just got gives you 120 RP?

My suggestion is:

- The bot will have a TK counter, and keep the record of that person
TK's in this session.
- When a certain number of TK's happen, a warning or a punishment will
occur(Ex: 100 TK's in this session --> this level RP is reseted,
10 TK's in this session --> Bot pm's with: Please watch your bombing).
- A !forgive command would be there, so if you knew it was accidental
you can use this command, so that TK won't count.
- Sharks could be free of this, because it's mostly the enemy shark who
will rep it at your teammates.

Of course the !forgive could be abused, and if their teammates don't like the person, they won't do it, and screw that person gamming=<
But that's more to prevent stupid bombing, when you know that your L2 bomb will be repped on a teammate, and you still shot it... it's just stupid

I bet a bunch of people won't like this idea :grin:

Edit: AND, maybe, let mods warn for tk in distension?(I don't know if it is allowed)

[project dragon]

For jav's, it seems like he-who-has-most-high-level-shrap basically wins at life. I can live with the huge radius of lvl 2 jav bombs, but the random x-amount of lvl 3 shrap that attacks me when jav's are just lobbing bombs anywhere into a wall is kind of ridiculous for me.

Some suggestions I would make would be:
-lower lvl 3 shrap upgrades (less shrap), but maybe higher shrap upgrades for the other lvl's
-slower, more dodge-able shrap ?
-fixed angled shrap

It's kind of like this. People are complaining about spids with lvl 2 bullets, but A) lvl 2 bullets aren't one-hit kill, and B) A spider has to be in a "vulnerable" spot, physically aiming at you to get the second kill. What I'm seeing with javs are people actually taking advantage of their bouncing bombs to actually HIT their opponents, and javs who just aim for a hole, not to shoot through it, but just so they can spew shrap in the nme's faces. It is that and jav's lobing bombs to a wall near the nme, and letting shrap destroy them.

Bomb's in general now are on-hit kill (a higher majority), so what I see is; why do jav's get a weapon that has the potential to do 5+ one-hit kills when fired just once? That, coupled with the fact that random shrap shows up differently on people's screen makes it a drag for me.

[roxxkatt]

this 40 pilot idea is interesting:

i had an idea.

when dist is released, there can be 3 distbots in 3 arenas,
and when the pilot limit is reached, you could ?go distension2
if there was space there.

ALSO, perhaps there could be a GLOBAL battle...
with pms like "you are needed in ?go distension3"
and updates like "republic is winning the battle in ?go distension2"
or something...

[Vergilius]

okay dug, the full info on the entering (since u looked interested)

Distension> Pilot limit reached: 40. You are in the queue to replace the pilot who has flown the longest at the end of the battle.
Distension> You'll need to !return to your army or !enlist in a new one before you go flying off.
Distension> A slot has opened up. You may now join the battle.
Distension> VERGILIUS authorized as a pilot of INTERGALACTIC PLANETARY, INC.. Returning you to HQ.
dugwyler> yes
Distension> VERGILIUS leaving hangars of INTERGALACTIC PLANETARY, INC.. Your flight timer has stopped.
Distension> Another player wishes to enter the game; you have been removed to allow them to play.

this text came all in like less than 2 seconds, no time to enter
so i tried to enter again a minute later or so

Distension> Pilot limit reached: 40. You are in the queue to replace the pilot who has flown the longest at the end of the battle.
Distension> You'll need to !return to your army or !enlist in a new one before you go flying off.
Vergilius> !return
Distension> You're already in the queue to enter in to the battle.
Distension> A slot has opened up. You may now join the battle.
Distension> VERGILIUS authorized as a pilot of INTERGALACTIC PLANETARY, INC.. Returning you to HQ.

I was waiting for it, and i entered as fast as i could.. this time it didnt throw me out


And about the bot dieing: no idea if it has sth to do with it (prolly not), but i was just scrapping and adding a few things to alter my ship

[AcidBomber]

Bot died just now... Hmmm...

[Aquatiq]

Last time I got the "Hey, what are you trying to pull?" message when my own army's freq was filled (16 or 17 people). It'd put me in the ship on the wrong team for a split-second and then spec me and give me that message.

[Fluffz]

1st case: esc-q !return !lagout

Distension> You have safely returned to your army.
Distension> Hey, what're you trying to pull? If you want to !assist the other army, do it the right way!
Distension> Ship status logged to our records. Total earned in Lancaster: 0 RP. You are now docked.
Distension> Use !lagout in the next 120 seconds to return to battle and keep participation.

!lagout

Distension> You'll be placed back on your army in 30 seconds. You may manually pilot a ship before this time, but you will lose your participation.Distension> You have safely returned to your army.
Distension> Hey, what're you trying to pull? If you want to !assist the other army, do it the right way!
Distension> Ship status logged to our records. Total earned in Lancaster: 0 RP. You are now docked.
Distension> Use !lagout in the next 120 seconds to return to battle and keep participation.

[AcidBomber]

I didn't find it as ridiculous as I might have thought it would be. Only twice yesterday did I see Acid get this in useful circumstances. I was, however, a shark with 5 reps. If a spider with L2, multi, and super were to be set lose on a full flagroom with no sharks I am pretty sure it would be the end of the opposing team. Maybe let it be for now? It didn't seem to be frequent enough to seem seriously overpowered.

I don't know, when i get super, L1s and L2s dont really make a difference, you're still going to get spammed and die, just L2s are quicker.

Oh and MJ, there's 5 possible upgrades for super, and each is +10% chance every 30 seconds.
Right now i have 4/5 upgrades (a total of 40% chance of super every 30 seconds with a duration of 0-15 secs). :P


Shark - yes, start with 3 with max at 5. then being prized randomly.

Terrier - need to see how that works out with even more portals. Might create more flagroom fights. *shrugs*