Distension Beta Suggestions/Bugfix thread

[gdugwyler]

Changes:

• For longer battles (30min+), losers now receive a little less than 20% of the bonus the winners receive.
• Reward for winning increased slightly.
• Added small scrap/upgrade prevention. It can be circumvented, but not without a bit of hassle. Aqua, the main reason you're able to do it with any consistency is because you're staff, and staff are exempt from the spam message limiter -- I've modified this so that probably sometime next week that won't be an issue. Scrapping and then upgrading to prize/deprize isn't considered abuse, really, but it's a little rough on the bot. When scrap is no longer free (public) I don't think we'll see much of this anyway, so no big deal. If it becomes a problem I can make scrapping only available in the rearming areas -- that would actually make a good bit of sense anyway, considering it would be impossible for someone to install something on your ship midair.
• Max points you can earn from a kill or round end is now the amount required to rank up. A lot of games with levels/XP use this technique, and I think it's a good idea for the low levels attacking higher ups.
• Base terr bonus now is modified heavily by rank. Min amount of time in base required to earn it is still 50%, but if you're there 75% of the time or more, you earn 1.5x the normal percentage bonus; if you're there 100% of the time you earn 2x. The max bonus to regular PS is 10% -- a level 70+ terr staying in base 100% of the time. Add in +4% for the default 40+ level "being a terr" profitsharing amount and 1% per level of profitsharing, for a max of 19% profitsharing possible with the 100% in base rank 70+ bonus.

Re: long log post, does that boil down to a suggestion? I guess I don't see too many sharks anyhow. Opinions on this?

[2kill]

Dug mentioned that will be changed (Possibly with some penalty?) when it is released. :P

ya for the first 15% to the next rank you are allowed unlimited scraps then after 15% you loss all your rp for scraping.

[AcidBomber]

I don't think there's a scrap etiquette, if dug says I shouldn't be doing that then I'll stop. But right now nothing's stopping anyone from macroing scraps/upgrades.

Dug mentioned that will be changed (Possibly with some penalty?) when it is released. :P

[Aquatiq]

I don't think there's a scrap etiquette, if dug says I shouldn't be doing that then I'll stop. But right now nothing's stopping anyone from macroing scraps/upgrades.

[Vergilius]

9:Mjollnir> yea
9:Mjollnir> so is 2v1 mostly
9:Mjollnir> how about limiting the amount of sharks on both teams to the same amount
9:Mjollnir> if the other team has only 1 the other can't have more than 1 either
9:Maddack+> no but
9:mango> i haven't played for 2 days
9:Major Crisis> so sharks shouldnt be limited.. but something like even it up.. like it has to be with all ships
9:mango> :<
9:Vergilius> meh mjoll, cant enter sharks then
9:Zeimonster> 1 more in the other team then
9:Vergilius> more like 'maximum 1 shark more than the other team'
9:Mjollnir> at least what zei said
9:Maddack+> it's bad to not let ppl play any ship they want
9:fluffz> i say leave sharks alone, there cant be enough of them. just split them equally
9:Major Crisis> well mjol if i cant shark i wont play distension, think it will be the same for the other top sharks..
9:Mjollnir> I don't think that will be a problem
9:X Machine> SHARK SUCKS
9:Zeimonster> says fluffz with his firebloom ;p
9:Mjollnir> esp if the zei rule is in effect
9:fluffz> so
9:2kill> give a RP bonus to the shark that assist to even the amount of sharks on the team
9:Zeimonster> u need sharks to rep ur bursts around
9:Major Crisis> so if we are all on the same team only 1-2 can play it
9:Major Crisis> since the other newbies wont play it
9:fluffz> its a symbiosis
9:Mjollnir> that's right
9:Mjollnir> the rest can assist
9:2kill> ya an assist just for the sharks so they can even the team
9:Major Crisis> yea that would be better
9:HFShadow> agreed
9:Major Crisis> but i think 6 mines are also too much
9:2kill> well there are four enteraces to base
9:2kill> instead of one as in pub
9:Maddack+> is it impossible to make the amount of mines you can lay upgradeable?
9:Major Crisis> so what? those mines are easily getting repped
9:2kill> I don't know but I like that idea
9:Mjollnir> if the team has a shark
9:Major Crisis> even a few rammer at the same time will pwn the mines..
9:Mjollnir> that is very hard since you are there repping and after you die you lay them again
9:Mjollnir> can't really help it if we have no sharks tho
9:Major Crisis> well laying mine isnt going that fast as you think
9:EpicLi <ZH>> no ppl, you cant upgrade number of mines
9:EpicLi <ZH>> that are certain things that are settings, and certain things that are upgrades
9:EpicLi <ZH>> energy, recharge, thruster, speed, bullets, bombs can be upgraded
9:EpicLi <ZH>> the rest can't be changed
9:EpicLi <ZH>> and in bombs, as i've seen someone saying this in the forum
9:EpicLi <ZH>> you can't change the damage from l2 or l3 whitout affecting l1
9:EpicLi <ZH>> because all bombs have the same damage, the difference is in the radius
9:Soja> ahh
9:mango> so nerf the radius
9:mango> lv 1 are useless already
9:mango> go nerf it some more
9:mango> lv 1 (emp)
9:EpicLi <ZH>> well, talk to dug about it
9:mango> it wouldn't be possible to introduce lv4s would it
9:EpicLi <ZH>> the damage is not that good, i just think it shouldnt be spammable
9:EpicLi <ZH>> you need flags/power balls for that
9:mango> have the bot warp a ball to you with a command
9:Mjollnir> can't warp then
9:mango> 'item gives a burst of upgraded weapons'
9:Mjollnir> rather a flag
9:mango> WELL SUCKS FOR YOU
9:EpicLi <ZH>> can't warp them
9:Mjollnir> !!
9:mango> u can warp balls wtf
9:EpicLi <ZH>> you can reset them
9:EpicLi <ZH>> and they will show up in the same place
9:mango> i thought you could warp them
9:EpicLi <ZH>> nope, what you can do is get in, take the ball, warp yourself and spec
9:EpicLi <ZH>> like in hockey
9:mango> can you warp flags? o-o
9:mango> flags would work but you can't really pick them up here
9:EpicLi <ZH>> i don't think so, but i dunno if you can have moveable flags and stuck flags at the same time
9:Soja> nice :P
9:mango> no
9:Mjollnir> too tired to post.. a lot of good stuff on the chat
mango> ds
9:Vergilius> mjoll on it
9:Vergilius> got the most of the shark discussion
9:Major Crisis> prob is people who shark think its fine and people who doesnt are like they are too important
9:2kill> see I play all ships all my ships are 19 or more and I think the sharks an ok ship
9:Mjollnir> it is pretty close to ok
9:Mjollnir> would be totally fine if the teams always had the same amount of sharks
9:Major Crisis> i think it should also happen with the others ships then
9:Mjollnir> maybe not all of them
9:Mjollnir> with terrs sure
9:Major Crisis> spids also

[2kill]

Since all others were to lazy to post it.. heres an interesting discussion bout sharks.

I'm not! I found out after you already started

thanks for doing all the hard work editing I was already done the whole chat lol

2kill

[Vergilius]

Since all others were to lazy to post it.. heres an interesting discussion bout sharks.

First part: discussing powers of sharks

9:Major Crisis> i think sharks are fine
9:Mjollnir> are you a shark
9:Vergilius> the shark itself is fine
9:mango> he is a shark
9:Mjollnir> :<
9:Vergilius> the number is a bigger issue
9:2kill> I play all ships and I think so too
9:mango> put a limit on sharks
9:Major Crisis> yes i am mjol
9:mango> ie: 2 sharks in 1 base at once
9:Mjollnir> limit could be good
9:mango> or the # of sharks is relative to the # of people playing
9:Maddack+> I don't play jav and I think jav is fine woot
9:Mjollnir> yeah noticed..
9:mango> ie: 15 people or less = 1, 30 or less = 2
9:Mjollnir> damn acid trying to talk shizzle!
9:mango> etc
9:ALLITeratioN> I agree with mango
9:Major Crisis> rofl limit? there are like only 5-6 people in the game who are playing only shark..
9:2kill> thats four per team but we rarly ever get that much at once anyway
9:mango> thats 2 per team
9:Mjollnir> what's wrong with limiting them
9:mango> 30 on your team = 2 sharks max
9:Mjollnir> the limit can go up depending on team sizes
9:Maddack+> acid talks shizzle about all non spider ships
9:EpicLi <ZH>> the thing is
9:EpicLi <ZH>> the team with a shark is a winning team
9:mango> im usually too lazy to post my suggestions, so someone else can post them if you want
9:2kill> ah I see so one shark per team per base
9:Mjollnir> yes.. epic it is
9:Mjollnir> sharks are the deciding factor
9:mango> limit shark # / base, raise rep delay
9:EpicLi <ZH>> so just be a shark and go wee
9:Mjollnir> someone should post it
9:2kill> think about it its basing! if one team has no shark how wins?
9:EpicLi <ZH>> really, i think support ships shouldn't get the extra rp, just a skill that gives a % of the rp they gain to the rest of their ships
9:mango> which are the 'support ships'
9:EpicLi <ZH>> but that's the way i think
9:Mjollnir> yeah
9:2kill> terrs, sharks, levs, weasel
9:mango> how the fuck is a levi a support
9:mango> it has the best speed
9:Mjollnir> weasel only gets a lil profit sharing but isn't a support ship
9:mango> great guns great bombs
9:Maddack+> dug is probably on this chat, aliased :O
9:mango> ?_?
9:Major Crisis> why would you limit the sharks if there are mostly on 1-3 on one team?
9:2kill> it emps to help the team
9:EpicLi <ZH>> lev would be support if it had l1 bullets and l3 bombs
9:2kill> thats the case anyway
9:mango> yea
9:mango> and it would support if it was SLOWER
9:Zeimonster> i dont recall seeing any other fast levis besides me and epic
9:EpicLi <ZH>> beeing a fast lev is not a option
9:Vergilius> lol
9:EpicLi <ZH>> ppl kill you easily
9:EpicLi <ZH>> tank is the way to go imo
9:EpicLi <ZH>> 2k energy, spray and pray
9:EpicLi <ZH>> the l2 bullets
9:Zeimonster> i have 2k energy, level 5 speed, level 3 thrusters
9:EpicLi <ZH>> i have 2k energy, lvl 5 energy, l2 thrusters
9:EpicLi <ZH>> a portal, a stealth, i rush around for warbing wbs
9:Vergilius> weasel with 1k nrg, lvl 10 speed, l3 (?) thrusters
9:EpicLi <ZH>> a.k.a dack
9:Maddack+> only terr and shark (maybe weasel) should be support, and from the total RP in a round, support ships should always get a set % no matter how many, so more support ships = less RP per ship
9:Zeimonster> level 5 energy and 2k energy? o_O
9:Major Crisis> see the ranks on stats of sharks and other ships... sharks are like 10 lvls lower than the rest..
9:EpicLi <ZH>> lvl 5 speed*
9:EpicLi <ZH>> my bad=p
9:mango> look at ph :<
9:EpicLi <ZH>> ph is not a valid argument
9:EpicLi <ZH>> sorry
9:2kill> not meddi he's 41
9:2kill> thats up with the rest
9:Major Crisis> im 39 so what
9:Major Crisis> the sharks out of the top 5 are like -20
9:Maddack+> I'm 31
9:2kill> lol thats cause not a lot play them
9:EpicLi <ZH>> really, a shark can create destruction if he lags enought
9:2kill> I'm a lvl 25 shark
9:Maddack+> 2kill is like
9:Maddack+> that
9:EpicLi <ZH>> that's why i always try to shark when i play hosted basing games
9:Major Crisis> and then you guys are complaining about there are too much of them and they are too powered?
9:2kill> I don't lag
9:2kill> usually
9:EpicLi <ZH>> because i can mvp
9:Mjollnir> the problem is about teams having an uneven amount of sharks
9:2kill> I'm not
9:2kill> I say they are fine
9:Major Crisis> mjol thats with all ships
9:Mjollnir> not really
9:Mjollnir> sharks decide 100% of the time
9:Mjollnir> who wins
9:Major Crisis> one freq had mango, left_Eye, acid on
9:Maddack+> not 100% but ye they are the most important easily
9:Major Crisis> well i lost enough games..
9:Mjollnir> when they had yellows maybe
9:Mjollnir> yes you may have.. but the team with most reps wins most of the time
9:Maddack+> 3v1 sharks is autowin

[AcidBomber]

i think they should raise a lot the amount of rp won for the team that wins, so people will really worry more with winning than getting kills

True, but it'll suck for the other half of the people on the losing team. So i think the losers should get some points just for participating? :fear:

[schope]

i think they should raise a lot the amount of rp won for the team that wins, so people will really worry more with winning than getting kills

[Fluffz]

TK: why dont we(dug) create a system similar to modern games there the TKed person can choose how to punish the TKer? i am thinking of the following options the victim could have:

-1..forgive
-2..emp
-3..kill
-4..ngative rp
-5..warp

RP: getting 10 rp from newbs while i guess they get 200 indicates i could get a 1:20 ratio. This is nowere close to reality and i consider this unfair. the process of getting rp is too harsh imho. i know dug already said there will be some changes but deviding income by 4 in the final is much, too much?

[2kill]

Terr - The 3% baseterr bonus. I got to thinking it's VERY much for low level terrs. Suggesting either timed increase like 2kill(?) said or to remove it and make RP requirements to level up smaller.

k what I was saying was I wanted it at 2% or so and then it starts increasing to about 4%(or 3%) depending how long you stay in Base now that wouldn't work with the system right now cause it just figuring out if your in base 50% of the time so even if you die you could still rush in to base and continue getting the higher profit sharing to fix this I think you would have to increase it to something like 70% (you would have to fine tune it)
and it would be a much better reward for staying alive

Javelins are FINE as they are. You can't say they have kickass k/d ratios based on F2. It includes the gazillion TKs they get. Javelins are easy to stop with a ship called shark, which at level 30 has 4 reps.

or a shark at level 25 with regen to 4! anyway in a basing match if one team had no sharks and the other team had a really good jav the one with no sharks should worry about its terr and to an effect them selfs too cause the javs bomb is deadly in breaking in to cram and hold cram when used right.

What I think would be good is to but the beta multiplier on TKs also (I assume it isn't. If it is, TKs should penalize RPs at least twice as much as they do)

I agree with this the penalization should be enough to make the bombers think about it.

2kill

[Fluffz]

I was wondering this myself. At the moment, Acid seems to be able to get super frequently enough to make it good, but if a spider could do this with L2 bullets it would be insane.

to be honest i dont think i would die faster to a spider on super with l1 than to a spider on super with l2

Lanc firebloom - if this costs 40 UP it is overpowered (that's comparing it to the 40 UP of terr emp). Way too often you were forced to either die to it or rep it. And it ended alot of the FR wars (kinda boring since that's the funniest part). With 40 UP it should be randomized to happen approximately one quarter of the times it happened in this game, OR make it a 100% prize if the lanc has stayed alive for one minute, so he can't suicide firebloom constantly (not saying Fluffz did this, but it is something that can potentially happen). The great thing about this burst is that it makes it very hard for sharks, since repping is probably a worse option than suiciding. Eagerly awaiting Fluffz's "reply" to this.

well, terr emp is very weak. anyway firebloom is slow as hell, how can u not avoid it? its like placing a mine between the enemy shark and terr, if the shark reps its his fault. But without a shark, its not gona kill. you have to look at the lanc as a whole, which is far away from being overpowered, just look at the records of <40 lancs and you will see some real negative records, not me but they are there.

and to be honest if the nmy lets me in their ear and close to their terr they deserve to die, nothing else would happen if i were spider or jav. i had at a point a 0-7 negative streak trying to reach the nmy and burst them, its not so easy. so firebloom did not improve my ratio, but it is an awsome in base ability to secure parts of the base.

maybe get some l3 ships because i can tank a l2 and still burst? as much as everyone hates l3 since both lanc and spider can tank it it might start to make sense upgrading to l3. a spider on super or firebloom lanc comming into the ear needs to be stopped and l2 doesnt do that.

as for the pricing itself i agree it might have to be different. i dont think suicide bursting will ever be as effective as a clever single burst but still it cant hurt to avoid this. since lanc benefits from kills why not price it after the first kill? and if you dont die price the next burst after 5-10 kills. dont link it to time, that will just make ppl camp. Randomizing them also works against clever burst attempt, ppl will just launch it at all cost before they die and i die a lot.

as for me aiming bad and not hitting anything, stfu nubs!

[AcidBomber]

Spiders - Only playing against them only but they seem nicely balanced right now too. This is coming along nicely :P

Spider lvl2 multi super - Have to test this first. What probably happens with lvl2 bullets is that using multi when not having super is a bad idea. Therefore making the multi only powerful while having super. If it is too powerful I think a nice fix could be to not allow both lvl2 and multi upgrade at the same time (or at a very high UP cost, like 200). This would also make it possible to have two different builds on a spider. The lvl2 gunner with single fire and rare super, and the lvl1 gunner with multi and common super.

Yeh true, i can imagine it might be crazy with L2s flying around with super.
Let see how that works out when i get rank 47 next week... 60-70k to go!

[maddack]

Firstly do you people ever stop defending/complaining about your own ship? Jeez...

k/d ratio means nothing. You do not see what ships you kill the most, and what levels they are. And it also includes the FFA time at which some people goof around, skewing this.

Javelins are FINE as they are. You can't say they have kickass k/d ratios based on F2. It includes the gazillion TKs they get. Javelins are easy to stop with a ship called shark, which at level 30 has 4 reps.

What I think would be good is to but the beta multiplier on TKs also (I assume it isn't. If it is, TKs should penalize RPs at least twice as much as they do). End result: Good javelins/leviathans/sharks have less TKs and will therefore level faster than bad ships who can't bomb properly. Of course there may be a little tweaking needed to balance it out, like a little less to level up. Hopefully this will to some extent make newbs less willing to play the quite hard basing ship that javelin/levis are (I imagine alot of newbies choosing to play javelin based on the way ordinary (timed) pub is right now).


Spiders - Only playing against them only but they seem nicely balanced right now too. This is coming along nicely :P

Spider lvl2 multi super - Have to test this first. What probably happens with lvl2 bullets is that using multi when not having super is a bad idea. Therefore making the multi only powerful while having super. If it is too powerful I think a nice fix could be to not allow both lvl2 and multi upgrade at the same time (or at a very high UP cost, like 200). This would also make it possible to have two different builds on a spider. The lvl2 gunner with single fire and rare super, and the lvl1 gunner with multi and common super.

Lanc firebloom - if this costs 40 UP it is overpowered (that's comparing it to the 40 UP of terr emp). Way too often you were forced to either die to it or rep it. And it ended alot of the FR wars (kinda boring since that's the funniest part). With 40 UP it should be randomized to happen approximately one quarter of the times it happened in this game, OR make it a 100% prize if the lanc has stayed alive for one minute, so he can't suicide firebloom constantly (not saying Fluffz did this, but it is something that can potentially happen). The great thing about this burst is that it makes it very hard for sharks, since repping is probably a worse option than suiciding. Eagerly awaiting Fluffz's "reply" to this.

Shark - Nicely balanced. A bit easy to level at the beginning since the mines get their share of high level kills no matter who lays them. Maybe you already thought of this :P

Terr - The 3% baseterr bonus. I got to thinking it's VERY much for low level terrs. Suggesting either timed increase like 2kill(?) said or to remove it and make RP requirements to level up smaller.

Warbird - No opinion, only use it for easy kills between rounds. If only Aquatiq could stop the macrod scrap and upgrade abuse of his gun.
Weasel - Mjollnir is a smart dude, listen to him :P

[meddi]

Spider - OK, so what happens when acid / mango DOES finally get that level 2, with multi.... and super... o.o Wouldnt that kind of equal autowin?

I was wondering this myself. At the moment, Acid seems to be able to get super frequently enough to make it good, but if a spider could do this with L2 bullets it would be insane.