Distension Beta Suggestions/Bugfix thread

[Lag.Com]

Okay, so I tried my not-quite-a-spider build:
2/7/6/7/2 ROT/THR/SPD/CHG/NRG
Multifire, Radar, Portal, Rocket, VB 45%, Prismatic 30%

Sucked. Multi yellows are the only way to hit people with the low bullet speed, and they cost too much. Maybe this build would work with CHG 9 or 10. Basically the best thing about the weasel is its size, allowing it to capture a flag while the doors are up. Points against:
1. Every ship can buy multifire, making it easy to hit a weasel
2. Bomb radius cripples/kills a weasel no matter what, and EMP makes you unable to cloak/stealth to go hide
3. Unless you have 8 NRG upgrades, can't tank L2 bullets
4. Bullet speed is so low, have to go close to enemies to kill
5. Every ship can buy X-Radar (at varying levels), so it is very difficult to get close
6. Only L3 bullets kill decent terrs, and you need an excessive amount of energy to fire them
7. Stealth + Cloak is the only way to kill something stealthily, and you need 9+ CHG to offset the running cost
8. If you can't offset the running cost, by the time you reach your target you will be unable to fire L3 bullets
9. Decoys are a nice idea but seeing as very few ships have to aim at you anyway (see points 1,2) it doesn't help much
10. 6 SPD upgrades gives you around the same bullet speed as a Lancaster with none
All of the above add up to a ship that sucks in a flagroom battle, is of questionable use in a defensive cram, and of possible use in an offensive cram. While the ship is by very nature a 'specialist', it is not good at the thing it specialises for. The only situation under which you can realistically infiltrate the flagroom and kill a terrier is if he is minimally guarded, unaware of your presence and not fighting anybody else already. Tell me how often that happens.

I don't yet have Brick so I can't say how that affects things. At a guess it might be quite fun to warp people or block the flag, but the Ops can do that anyway. The unique ability to destroy Escape Pods is a great idea, but I so rarely kill Terriers I go after (stealth or spider build) that it doesn't seem to be very important in practice.

So, I've been big on problems but thin on solutions. Mjollnir suggested giving Weasels more energy, and I feel this will be a big help, as survivability is near-zero at present. Another thing I would like is an extra ability that capitalises on the 'Vengeful Bastard' side of things - perhaps a 'sacrifice' ability that cripples your ship and enemies near you for teammates to pick off. They're certainly better equipped for it than you are. That way new weasels can affect the game in some way other than killing inattentive spiders in midbase.

Oh, I forgot to add this at first. Today I received more RP from profit sharing than from killing. While you might expect this in a shark or a terrier who didn't have much to do... sigh.

[Mjollnir]

I don't want to make another long post so I will try to make my point quickly:

• Terriers are getting way more RP than other ships because:
  • They get as many kills as any other pure killing ship.
  • They get a huge profit sharing.
  • They get a big round end bonus for being a support ship.
  • They get huge streaks (50 I hear) since they can survive so easily.

I checked the kill-death stats last time I played and a Terrier was actually leading in kills. To further prove my point, here are the top 5 Terrier ranks:

1. jngy slate (61)
2. flibb (59)
3. Ajant (58)
4. Raible (58)
5. Ze_Bunisher (57)

No other ship is even level 57 yet and most top 5 ships are late 40s to early 50s. So what should we do? I am assuming they get most their kills from bursts so I guess we could reduce them again. Their yellow bullets are quite effective at getting kills too so there is no need for a lot of bursts. Sure, we need to keep their ship fun to play and I am sure they will whine if we nerf, but I think it's obvious something needs to be done.

[Singularity]

I don't want to make another long post so I will try to make my point quickly:

• Terriers are getting way more RP than other ships because:
  • They get as many kills as any other pure killing ship.
  • They get a huge profit sharing.
  • They get a big round end bonus for being a support ship.
  • They get huge streaks (50 I hear) since they can survive so easily.

I checked the kill-death stats last time I played and a Terrier was actually leading in kills. To further prove my point, here are the top 5 Terrier ranks:

1. jngy slate (61)
2. flibb (59)
3. Ajant (58)
4. Raible (58)
5. Ze_Bunisher (57)

No other ship is even level 57 yet and most top 5 ships are late 40s to early 50s. So what should we do? I am assuming they get most their kills from bursts so I guess we could reduce them again. Their yellow bullets are quite effective at getting kills too so there is no need for a lot of bursts. Sure, we need to keep their ship fun to play and I am sure they will whine if we nerf, but I think it's obvious something needs to be done.

Agreed, terriers are a lot higher in levels than most other ships (I know it is also partly because terriers are playing a lot, mostly in the red ship, but still). On the other hand, we don't need to nerf the ship itself, for example, we could half the RP for kills made by burst. Well, at least I presume so.

[Oops]

Mjollnir

I don't want to make another long post so I will try to make my point quickly:

• Terriers are getting way more RP than other ships because:
  • They get as many kills as any other pure killing ship.
  • They get a huge profit sharing.
  • They get a big round end bonus for being a support ship.
  • They get huge streaks (50 I hear) since they can survive so easily.

I checked the kill-death stats last time I played and a Terrier was actually leading in kills. To further prove my point, here are the top 5 Terrier ranks:

1. jngy slate (61)
2. flibb (59)
3. Ajant (58)
4. Raible (58)
5. Ze_Bunisher (57)

No other ship is even level 57 yet and most top 5 ships are late 40s to early 50s. So what should we do? I am assuming they get most their kills from bursts so I guess we could reduce them again. Their yellow bullets are quite effective at getting kills too so there is no need for a lot of bursts. Sure, we need to keep their ship fun to play and I am sure they will whine if we nerf, but I think it's obvious something needs to be done.

What you say is quite true, BUT, now that other ships are gettinghigher ranks and becoming more deadly, the terr is losing its advantage. For example, yesterday i was terring(lvl 54 or something) and was getting killed left and right because - Random terr bursts that i dont even notice. Sharks putting random mines all over and teammates getting me killed in them. SO MANY SHIPS NOW HAVE BLUE BULLETS that i can hardly stay alive. And spiders w/ super yellow bullets make me want to kill myself. Terr bursts are nothing compared to that. The other ships are catching up to terrs and terrs are becoming less powerfull compared to them. So all in all i think terr is fine the way it is, although i personally am tired of terr cuz of the above reasons.

[Mjollnir]

What you say is quite true, BUT, now that other ships are gettinghigher ranks and becoming more deadly, the terr is losing its advantage. For example, yesterday i was terring(lvl 54 or something) and was getting killed left and right because - Random terr bursts that i dont even notice. Sharks putting random mines all over and teammates getting me killed in them. SO MANY SHIPS NOW HAVE BLUE BULLETS that i can hardly stay alive. And spiders w/ super yellow bullets make me want to kill myself. Terr bursts are nothing compared to that. The other ships are catching up to terrs and terrs are becoming less powerfull compared to them. So all in all i think terr is fine the way it is, although i personally am tired of terr cuz of the above reasons.

Even if it is getting tougher for Terriers to stay alive, they should not be able to get so many more RPs than the other ships. The fact that the Terrier is one of the highest killing ships says a lot about the situation. The ship's purpose is to stay alive, not make a ton of kills. You said random bursts are getting you killed, so wouldn't it be better to allow less bursts?
Lowering the amount of bursts was just a suggestion but I like it more than lowering RP gained from burst kills.

[Mjollnir]

A suggestion for a new ability for the Weasel:

- An ability to create a one way warp spot. The Weasel would have to say !w1 to the bot to lay a starting point and !w2 to lay the end of the tunnel.

- After laying both points a graphic would appear to show the starting point (and possible the end point as well) so the teammates can see where the spot is.

- Only your teammates can use the bridge.

- The bridge lasts x seconds at level 1, 2*x seconds at level 2 and so on.. The x could be something like 40.

- This ability would get recharged like the Jumpspace and EMP abilities.

Just playing around with the idea and the details can be worked on but what do you people think about it?

[Andy H.K.]

A suggestion for a new ability for the Weasel:

- An ability to create a one way warp spot. The Weasel would have to say !w1 to the bot to lay a starting point and !w2 to lay the end of the tunnel.

- After laying both points a graphic would appear to show the starting point (and possible the end point as well) so the teammates can see where the spot is.

- Only your teammates can use the bridge.

- The bridge lasts x seconds at level 1, 2*x seconds at level 2 and so on.. The x could be something like 40.

- This ability would get recharged like the Jumpspace and EMP abilities.

Just playing around with the idea and the details can be worked on but what do you people think about it?

Hmm that sounds scary... Better have a long cooldown and maybe limit how long the tunnel can be. I don't think majority of the player base would like such ability tho.

But with your inspiration I've though of a similar but more combat-oriented ability idea: Exchange position. It work like this: weasel PM bot to warp to where the ticked player is, and the ticked one to where the weasel was, kind of like castling in Chess.

To keep it from abuses the range have to be VERY short, I'll at max suggest a quarter screen apart.

[Viruk]

A suggestion for a new ability for the Weasel:

- An ability to create a one way warp spot. The Weasel would have to say !w1 to the bot to lay a starting point and !w2 to lay the end of the tunnel.

- After laying both points a graphic would appear to show the starting point (and possible the end point as well) so the teammates can see where the spot is.

- Only your teammates can use the bridge.

- The bridge lasts x seconds at level 1, 2*x seconds at level 2 and so on.. The x could be something like 40.

- This ability would get recharged like the Jumpspace and EMP abilities.

Just playing around with the idea and the details can be worked on but what do you people think about it?

I really like this idea but I think there should be no graphics to show the warp point - forcing the team to communicate effectively to use it. Perhaps there could be an Ops ability that makes all temporary warp points (including the enemy's) visible for a short time.

If it turns out to be technically impossible to have temporary warp points anywhere then perhaps the flag room, mid and map could be remade to contain lots of preset warp points which would all be dormant until activated by a weasel with this ability.

I also think that 'x' should be closer to 1 than 40 as this ability would be quite powerful and half a minute for a mid level weasel seems quite long enough. I would not like to see high level weasels dropping these things for half an hour!

But with your inspiration I've though of a similar but more combat-oriented ability idea: Exchange position. It work like this: weasel PM bot to warp to where the ticked player is, and the ticked one to where the weasel was, kind of like castling in Chess.

To keep it from abuses the range have to be VERY short, I'll at max suggest a quarter screen apart.

It would be too powerful if you could use it on terriers since they could then immediately summon help and unlike the bridge idea there are no fixed entry/exit points that can be guarded and no communications and movement delay before using it.

Thinking about it - this would still make Mjollnir's idea a little overpowered as well though. Perhaps terrier should not be able to use bridge either. It might also make sense for the bridge idea to force the weasel to lay the exit point first and then survive to lay the entry point to give a better chance of guarding a FR.

[DankNuggets]

i like the weasel ideas, and on that note, i do think they should be a little less powerful than most ships, and the terr a little more powerful.

summon seems to work out fine, i don't see how it's "ruining the game"

[roxxkatt]

terrs may level a little faster, but do we really want our terrs changing to another ship?
i thought so.

and dank, how many times have you even seen the summon used?
0? i thought so.
every time ive seen it used, 5+, it has been excessively abusive.

[Zeimonster]

To fix all those problems with terrs, just give them 2k+ health fairly early so they can tank L3's and survive longer. After that it's only reasonable to also reduce their offensive capability.

[Mjollnir]

...
I also think that 'x' should be closer to 1 than 40 as this ability would be quite powerful and half a minute for a mid level weasel seems quite long enough. I would not like to see high level weasels dropping these things for half an hour!
...

I am not sure I understood you right but I was talking about x seconds, not minutes. I still think there should be a graphic to indicate the entry point since it's almost impossible to actually tell people where the spot is.

[Lag.Com]

Okay, so I figured out how to get a decent amount of kills in weasel - don't buy stealth or cloak. This frees up a lot of UP for buying SPD and CHG/NRG upgrades. With no other changes from my full-stealth build, I managed to get a positive record today even though I played on the losing team for every game.

Naturally this is only based on my own experiences, but it seems like the added energy expenditure of Stealth/Cloak just makes you useless as hell. However, the entire Weasel ship idea is based around those two things, so... hmm.

I'm still trying to use Prismatic Decoy Array, but it hasn't helped yet. I'll stick with it, I like tricks.

Oh, ability idea: Noble Sacrifice. Lose some of your ship upgrades (until next death) to give an ally some random greens.

[jngy slate]

I don't want to make another long post so I will try to make my point quickly:

• Terriers are getting way more RP than other ships because:
  • They get as many kills as any other pure killing ship.
  • They get a huge profit sharing.
  • They get a big round end bonus for being a support ship.
  • They get huge streaks (50 I hear) since they can survive so easily.

I checked the kill-death stats last time I played and a Terrier was actually leading in kills. To further prove my point, here are the top 5 Terrier ranks:

1. jngy slate (61)
2. flibb (59)
3. Ajant (58)
4. Raible (58)
5. Ze_Bunisher (57)

No other ship is even level 57 yet and most top 5 ships are late 40s to early 50s. So what should we do? I am assuming they get most their kills from bursts so I guess we could reduce them again. Their yellow bullets are quite effective at getting kills too so there is no need for a lot of bursts. Sure, we need to keep their ship fun to play and I am sure they will whine if we nerf, but I think it's obvious something needs to be done.

The recent burst nerf is enough. I find myself saving up my bursts many times to use them when they're really neccesary. About the l2 bullets. I never liked them so I never got them, same with multi. They use up more energy, and the terr is not an offensive ship. Most of the time when firing my l1s it's because someone fired first. Another acceptable reason to fire at someone is to keep them from firing at you, without expecting to kill them. But in Distension it's hard to guess if they will still have enough energy to fire at you after getting hit. The emp ability helps in this. But I have little to comment on it since I haven't got it yet.

And we don't wanna discourage players from playing terr since it's one of the most important ships when basing. I love playing terr myself but I feel that some of the other players feel obligated to play them.

[Viruk]

I am not sure I understood you right but I was talking about x seconds, not minutes. I still think there should be a graphic to indicate the entry point since it's almost impossible to actually tell people where the spot is.

Tricky but not impossible if you use landmarks e.g. 'left corner of north tube entrance' or hover near the warpspot to direct your team. You would probably want to stick to the same familiar locations unless your Tac Ops could help by making it visible.

The bridge lasts x seconds at level 1, 2*x seconds at level 2 and so on.. The x could be something like 40

If you are level 54 and 'x' was 40 as you suggest it then your bridge lasts 54*40 = 2160 seconds = 36 minutes! More than a little excessive I think!

EDIT
I figured out why you were surprised! Perhaps you were talking about having an ability level and not your ship level right? In which case 40 would be fine: If you had 3 possible levels of bridge upgrade and were maxed out your bridge would only last a couple of minutes.

Perhaps it could even use your ship level instead of 'x' so your ability would scale with level although it would make it harder for lower level weasels