Elim 2.0 Discussion

[milosh]

I've slowed down the shrap significantly, attempted to fix Aim again, added stats into the bot command(including Ave), added a message when you enter casual, the bot will only allow 5-10 deaths when a player has a 3+ game winning streak, and I think I have a lead on what's causing the F2 menu problems.

[Sirius]

Great work Milosh, keep it up

[milosh]

Okay the F2 menu problems should be resolved, shrap is now instant kill, and I've switch the spawn area to the competitive arena so you don't have to get warped a bunch anymore. We are getting near to to the end so we have some big questions to ask...

• Should there be a win bonus to the rating calculation and if yes how should it be calculated?
• Should I completely shut down ?go javs at the final release? What are some ways that I could make the arena more satisfying to ?go javs players?
• Should the map of the elim casual arena be changed?
• Is the safe area useful?
• Are there any other issues or bugs you've noticed?

I urge you to respond to these questions. Thanks in advance.

[Vehicle]

I'm only gonna respond to the bullets that I have a clue about:

I think the safe in belim is pretty useless. If players aren't signed up to play casual after they die out I would say just put em in spec.

As far as ?go javs, I wouldn't say a complete shut-down is the way to go. With the release of the new baseelim you should take the bot out of ?go javs and instruct staff not to place one there. If, for whatever reason, there's still a ton of people in ?go javs, more drastic solutions could be discussed.

Considering how fast you're throwing this all together mil, hats off to you.

[milosh]

I think the safe in belim is pretty useless. If players aren't signed up to play casual after they die out I would say just put em in spec.

Yes, but the question is what to do with them when they are signed up to play casual and they die out.

[Vehicle]

Warp them into the casual spawn? Maybe I'm missing the question here.

If your worried people might go afk after dying out, tell them to use the !classic option and problem solved.

[Static Burn]

[*]Should there be a win bonus to the rating calculation and if yes how should it be calculated?

I don't think so since if you're winning a lot and not hiding you'll already have a good rating, no need for an extra reward.

[*]Should I completely shut down ?go javs at the final release? What are some ways that I could make the arena more satisfying to ?go javs players?

I think you should leave ?go javs alone and hope people naturally migrate over to the new baseelim, if you just take ?go javs away people will get angry.

[MetalKid]

Should there be a win bonus to the rating calculation and if yes how should it be calculated?

- I think there should be something for this, but keep it small. Maybe just subtract one death from the winner as a reward?

Should I completely shut down ?go javs at the final release? What are some ways that I could make the arena more satisfying to ?go javs players?

- I would leave ?go javs for two weeks and see how it goes. If no one is coming to belim, then drop the bots from javs and put up a message. If they still go, kill the arena.

Should the map of the elim casual arena be changed?

- The only thing I would do is make it so the map doesn't come so close to the main map. Anti-Warp can affect the people below, which could potentially change the outcome. I often warp just to make the other person mad.

Is the safe area useful?

- I'm not sure. After you die, you should probably just go to the casual area or spec. Otherwise, there will be cases where people die out and forget to spec and it will automatically put them in the next game, giving them 10 deaths. I would be irrate. If you do decide to keep it, I would probably move it away from the main arena because of the anti-warp thing again, though.

Are there any other issues or bugs you've noticed?

- Full charge greens are still there (Greens in general should be removed, or people like me abuse them)
- Would be nice if you had some sort of small score board in the upper right corner that maybe showed your kills/deaths and total remaining players in the game. Since people can be in the casual arena, its difficult to know how many people are left unless you message the bot. That can be difficult when dodging bullets...
- Not sure if this is a bug or really matters, but if you get a big kill streak and you spec for rec, the game does not count, but your kill streak will be as if you had played that game. Update: It looks like this was fixed!
- I hope you can get the AIM thing fixed.
- Has any discussion been done on how often elim will be reset? 2 months or something?
- Would it be possible to keep track of radar kills? j/w

I think that is everything. Great job on this! This is way cooler than the previous elim. By far!

[riske]

Should I completely shut down ?go javs at the final release? What are some ways that I could make the arena more satisfying to ?go javs players?

YES. because its not beging shut down, its being moved. There is NO reason to keep it if we have the new belim like this. To satisfy the players, add a barwarp for them(not sure if you havent) and make it so they can have streaks that only the people in casual arena can see. If you do those 2 things, there is no reason whatsoever to keep ?go javs open. except I guess their k : d rating etc but I think you said you were working on a solution for that.


Also Im not sure if you changed it or not, but i remember reading from before about stats not counting if you spec. Well this is good for some things, but if 2 people have 3 lives in a game too 10, they are going to kill the game. TONS of times people will SD. So I suggest a command !suddendeath BOTH of the last 2 players would have to do, and make it so the game counts if they both vote a sudden death.


edit:: meant to say 3 deaths not 3 lives.

[MetalKid]

YES. because its not beging shut down, its being moved. There is NO reason to keep it if we have the new belim like this. To satisfy the players, add a barwarp for them(not sure if you havent) and make it so they can have streaks that only the people in casual arena can see. If you do those 2 things, there is no reason whatsoever to keep ?go javs open. except I guess their k : d rating etc but I think you said you were working on a solution for that.


Also Im not sure if you changed it or not, but i remember reading from before about stats not counting if you spec. Well this is good for some things, but if 2 people have 3 lives in a game too 10, they are going to kill the game. TONS of times people will SD. So I suggest a command !suddendeath BOTH of the last 2 players would have to do, and make it so the game counts if they both vote a sudden death.

I suggested sudden death mode, but it got rejected...

[Xp.]

the "Casual Mode" covers up the clock and stays on even when im in spec

[Sirius]

I agree with Burnt, elim rank is meant as a SIDE thing to those who are interested in something 'competitive' about elim, and winning is too easy to consider competitive. That is the whole reason ranking in elim was even brought about. Winning has nothing to do with it, though as Burnt said, you will win a lot to get anywhere up the rank ladder whether you want to or not.

[MaGi kOz]

I agree with Burnt, elim rank is meant as a SIDE thing to those who are interested in something 'competitive' about elim, and winning is too easy to consider competitive. That is the whole reason ranking in elim was even brought about. Winning has nothing to do with it, though as Burnt said, you will win a lot to get anywhere up the rank ladder whether you want to or not.

Winning is still considered an accomplishment so it should be rewarded. It should be rewarded by the number of people playing and the average rating of those who are in play. So if you're playing against a bunch of low rated players, you'll get a reward for winning but it won't be much.

- I would leave ?go javs for two weeks and see how it goes. If no one is coming to belim, then drop the bots from javs and put up a message. If they still go, kill the arena.

good idea.

- Full charge greens are still there (Greens in general should be removed, or people like me abuse them)

That's just a personal thing for you. I like the greens. It keeps things interesting.

I would probably move it away from the main arena because of the anti-warp thing again, though.

I mentioned that and milosh thought it was pointless. I suggested de-greening but moving the two boxes away from each other is actually a better idea.

- Would be nice if you had some sort of small score board in the upper right corner that maybe showed your kills/deaths and total remaining players in the game. Since people can be in the casual arena, its difficult to know how many people are left unless you message the bot. That can be difficult when dodging bullets...

Wouldn't that be nice?

If your worried people might go afk after dying out, tell them to use the !classic option and problem solved.

That's hassle. It's fine the way it is. Your solution will actually solve the problem in it's current state of AFKs being thrown into spawn. Eventually they'll get thrown back into elim and it's going to come back to:

tell them to use the !classic option and problem solved.

[Sirius]

Would be nice if you had some sort of small score board in the upper right corner that maybe showed your kills/deaths and total remaining players in the game. Since people can be in the casual arena, its difficult to know how many people are left unless you message the bot. That can be difficult when dodging bullets... - MetalKid

I just think the casual arena should be taken out altogether, with that being the main issue. To have to make sure you have your PM set to TWDbot to msg it to find out who's left and then read it is too much a hassle.

Not only that, but elim needs to have some kind of interest attached to it. Some people will come, think they are playing elim and not even realize they aren't. Others will play some casual while waiting for elim and that will be enough for them and they won't even want to play elim anymore by the time it starts. People need to get some sort of interest into wanting to play elim, and usually the little time it takes to wait for the next elim game makes elim a bit more rewarding to play.

People can't seem to grasp the simple fact that jav and wb have different requirements due to the ship style. Jav has a bit more complex requirements than just open space (jav needs a base for full utilization of it's play style) and that can be hard to find in a competitive style in pub due to other ships intervening with how a jav plays. Hence ?go javs. Warbirds, are just simple ships you play in open areas, and that is easily found as a 'casual' style of play in pub field outside base. It's ridiculous to think wbs need ?go warbird or a casual arena in elim. It shouldn't even be a surprise why nobody plays in ?go warbird therefore. Instead of putting this confusing and over-complicated (even if with good intent) feature into elim, if you want 'casual' wb play, just go to pub.

Winning is still considered an accomplishment so it should be rewarded. - Magi Koz

No it shouldn't and I just explained why, not to mention the simple self explanatory fact of winning being it's own reward. Should ?go wbduel be rewarded now too every time one of the two teams wins? Should all the hosted events have some 'reward' for players aside from winning now? Seriously.

[MetalKid]

[i]
No it shouldn't and I just explained why, not to mention the simple self explanatory fact of winning being it's own reward. Should ?go wbduel be rewarded now too every time one of the two teams wins? Should all the hosted events have some 'reward' for players aside from winning now? Seriously.

TWD rewards the winners by giving that team points. It never gives points based on ratios. I think all events should give you something for winning them. I heard they were trying to bring back that Accomplishes thing that gives medals for stuff that people do in the game. Thus, winning events would give you a medal.