Distension discussion

[roxxkatt]

or perhaps make it easier if your level is higher, like 25 kill streak - (level / 5) to unlock wzl...

so a lvl40 would only need a streak of 17 to unlock wzl, 50 only needs 15, etc...

[DankNuggets]

ship unlocks... they need to be rank-based

Personally, I'm never going to camp to the point I get a 20 kill streak. That, and none of my ships can really tank a bullet, so I don't see it coming by accident, let alone if I try 100% of the time to unlock it.

As for the lanc, the closest I've been able to come is around 25 kills in a five minute game. If it goes on for 30 mins... well there's no hope. Right now, only the overpowered/overranked ships can unlock lanc. It's because their ship is ungodly to the point that they can kill everyone and tank a lot of shots.

How is that not just a product of playing longer than everyone? Sure, it's not 100% gurantee if you play a lot you'll get it, but as it stands, the only people that seem to be unlocking the lancaster are the ones who ALREADY have a highly ranked ship. Thus, they've devoted a large amount of time, to just ONE ship, in order to achieve the unlock.

I think it would be a good idea to have it as a rank-unlock, just as a combonation of ships.

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A few possible examples-- Gonna use weasel/support for the example, just substitute lanc/assault for the other half.

Plan 1. Follow existing unlock method. IE, start with terrier. @ rank 10 you unlock shark, @ rank 20 you unlock levi, @ rank 30 you unlock weasel.

Plan 1a. @ rank 40 you unlock weasel

Plan 2. Update the method so that you can't just rank up one ship. Keep the first 2 unlocks the same, but then require at least rank 30 in two support ships to unlock weasel.

Plan 2b. same as above, but require at least rank 20 in three support ships

Plan 2c. same as above, but require rank 30 in all ships


Plan 3. base the unlock requirement on a combination of rank requirements and army wins. I don't know enough about the # wins it should take to help unlock, but it should be in addition to a total combined rank of at least 90-100 (that'd be rank 15 at least in all other ships, could bump it to 20 and make the range 100-120). This would also keep people from creating an account solely to play as X or lanc, and force them to be a more well rounded team player if they want the lanc or X.

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Right now, it's extremely hard to unlock one of these ships for several reasons.

One, most people who don't have these ships have low ranks, while the people with them have high ranks. That makes it really hard to even kill them, let alone unlock ships.

Two, neither unlock method creates a healthy basing atmosphere: ppl playing wb trying to get the streak, and not helping secure flag room/kill terr; and people trying to get 6k/min not helping defend bases so much as suicide and get as many kills as possible (also not playing shark or terrier, at all).

Three, people who have unlocked these ships have played them to the point where they're 30+ ranks over people who haven't unlocked them at all. It's ridiculous to play a level 20 terr against a level 40 lanc... it's no contest. They rank up so quickly because the ship is damn powerful, and it's given to people who have demonstrated they don't need the extra power... it's like giving Phelps or Bolt a headstart in a race.

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In sum: The unlock requirements need to be rank based, with focus towards winning flagroom battles. Currently the X/Lanc are overpowered, even in their limited availability, and probably need to be nerfed a bit. No one's going to get tac ops, or at least not nearly as many as should be able to. I'd like to know what %% of people have unlocked these ships, and when they did it. I'm guessing that <10% of players have these ships, and that <5% have unlocked them recently.

[Lizard Fuel]

2035 people have registered names in DBot. Granted a large portion of those names are probably 2nd and 3rd aliases....But out of those 2035 names....

41 People have unlocked the weasel. (Almost 10 people never play it)
15 Have unlocked the Lanc. (+1 for qan who probably just gave it to himself)

Too lazy to figure out what the percentages are, but maybe this is a hint that additional standards need to be added to the current unlock standards for these 2 ships.

[jngy slate]

2 things. There have been constant complains about uneven teams the past few days. In the last week, Stabwound has shuffled teams about 5 times because of complains of inbalancement. I think we can all agree that the algorithm used to shuffle the teams evenly sucks. Because it's not just ranks that matter. There's a lot more factors to be considered. Terrs and sharks need to have more importance when shuffling teams. Don't give one team all the high level terrs, even them out. Consider how often these people play distension, and how often they play the ship. For example, Burnt plays like once a week, so putting him on a team would not add up that much strenght to it. We've discussed this a few pages back.

Weasels are overpowered. I was discussing this with a couple peeps the other day and we all agreed that either rockets or portals need to go. For the following reasons, I am strongly leaning towards rockets:
* in the rest of tw, weasels are slow. In distension they are nowhere near as slow. It used to be that weasels were the shotguns to a FPS. What rockets do is turn that shotgun into a mid range weapon.
* nobbi has told me that for many levels there is nothing to upgrade for the x. Even though qan put a lot of effort into choosing the upgrades and special abilities for ships, he might have gotten impatient with the weasel and gave it rockets. Sure, the weasels in pub have rockets, but again, they are much slower than the weasels in distension. They are also twice as big, thus not as flexible to travel in. Pub weasels also have slower recharge. Now keep in mind what I've said about weasels not having anything to upgrade for a while. This means that all weasels would probably have max speed/thrust/rotation at about level 30. Why I'm guessing level 30? nobbi is 38 and he told me he was maxed on these stats some weeks ago.
* because x's are very likely to have max movement stats plus a rocket, their movement can be very unpredictable, thus hard to dodge. A rocket allows an x to go from 0 or even negative speed to full speed. You could be chasing an x and it can instantly change directions and shoot at you. This is not that case with javs. And even if isn't facing your way, it can quickly turn because of max roation.
* weasels already have multi. This, together with l3s and rockets makes weasel players hardly require any aim.
* Let's face it, a good number of the top x's right now have above average ping. As in above 300 ms. Rockets reeeally make the lag worse. Remember the javs in pub who seem to jump all around when they rocket? By the time you've realized a weasel used a rocket and shot at you, you're already ded.
* they already have portals. High ping + a portal really helps get you to that death out of nowhere experience. Even without lag, if a weasel warps directly next to you, rockets, and shoots, it's nearly impossible to dodge unless you yourself use a portal or he kills someone else that was closer to the bullets. Now, why get rid of rockets instead of portals? Because I can think of more reasons why rockets make weasels more overpowered than portals do. Also, imo portals are not all that useful. Plus, there is anti. There is no anti to rockets. No, reps are not the anti to rockets.
* weasels are meant to be support ships. They even get profit share. But often, weasels players are the ones taht get the most kills and the best ratio in a game. All the RP from kills plus profit sharing makes them easy to level. The reason weasels are not the second most ranked ships in the game is because not many have unlocked them and the highest ranked weasels don't play them that often.

[roxxkatt]

my ping: 30ms
my wzl: 0rot 0thr 0spd
my gun: lv2
# of rockets: 0

however, i agree that the wzl should never get a port, ever.
i also think the levi shouldnt have one either.

[Viruk]

Personally, I'm never going to camp to the point I get a 20 kill streak. That, and none of my ships can really tank a bullet, so I don't see it coming by accident, let alone if I try 100% of the time to unlock it.

I am happy to nurse along any 10+ streaks I accidentally get and I expect to luck out eventually without really trying for weasel. A 19 streak is my record so far - but then even a powerful basing spider is going to need luck to survive for lots of big streaks. If I had really wanted weasel early I would have camped with a warbird early on when L2s were more often 1-hit kills. I suspect a skilled camper still has some chance even with a low ranking kill ship.

I would be interested to know if any terriers have survived long enough to unlock weasel.

As for the lanc, the closest I've been able to come is around 25 kills in a five minute game. If it goes on for 30 mins... well there's no hope. Right now, only the overpowered/overranked ships can unlock lanc. It's because their ship is ungodly to the point that they can kill everyone and tank a lot of shots.

I think I have only come close once in a particularly favorable game where both sides were frequently straying across the FR in a 15 minute one-base game without too many sharks. However a few people seem to have managed it relatively early when they cannot have been vastly more powerful than the opposition. Perhaps 'overranked' ships can do it now that we have more of a spread in levels but I would be surprised if average level weasels have the killing power to get lanc and I cannot think of any other killing ship apart from lanc itself that might be overpowered.

My plan has always been to develop a spider with L2 bullets. With a little skill and a little luck that ought to be powerful enough to kill a lot even if much of my opposition is at a similar level. Killing is not as bad for basing as streaking and should always help my team win even if it isn't the best basing tactic. I suspect that this is a rather slow, conservative strategy though.

In sum: The unlock requirements need to be rank based, with focus towards winning flagroom battles.

I enjoy having goals beyond simply ranking up. However it would be nice to see skill feats with more focus on helping the team win. Something that wouldn't rely on your team succeeding though because you can easily spend a lot of time playing for hopeless teams.

I would oppose anything that forces players to spend a lot of time in a completely different type of ship to what they wish to unlock. Many weasel or kill-ship players would be both unhappy and incompetent in the essential support ships.

[roxxkatt]

quite a few terrs have unlocked wzl, i believe the last was everett...

streaking in wb is easy, i dont think anyone should have any troubles with this.
i believe my best was a month or two ago, when i got ~50 by sitting in ear/roofing, had to warp out of base like twice, ended by some cloaking faggot...

also, when i unlocked lanc, i had 150+ kills that round, was like 25-30 mins too...

[DankNuggets]

quite a few terrs have unlocked wzl, i believe the last was everett...

streaking in wb is easy, i dont think anyone should have any troubles with this.
i believe my best was a month or two ago, when i got ~50 by sitting in ear/roofing, had to warp out of base like twice, ended by some cloaking faggot...

also, when i unlocked lanc, i had 150+ kills that round, was like 25-30 mins too...

yeah but i have to believe you're higher in rank than the avg person.

which is what it seems to boil down to, or just ppl that got it early. either way, it's essentially a product of how much time you've invested in it. in that sense, i dont' see a problem with doing away with the "side missions" to unlock them. They're too big an aspect of the game to be unlocked like that imo. could think of something else, maybe a certain upgrade, that could only be unlocked with things like streaks/kills.

[KuNi]

Ok. Here's my argument against jngy, keep in mind I'm 13 D:

nobbi has told me that for many levels there is nothing to upgrade for the x

true. nothing new to upgrade between level 29 and 38, except for 1 prismatic array and stealth, which is useless. Nothing between 38 and 50, except for a rocket.

Sure, the weasels in pub have rockets, but again, they are much slower than the weasels in distension. They are also twice as big, thus not as flexible to travel in. Pub weasels also have slower recharge.

they are slower and have slower recharge but they have a repel,rocket, and stealth that doesn't drain energy.

Now keep in mind what I've said about weasels not having anything to upgrade for a while. This means that all weasels would probably have max speed/thrust/rotation at about level 30. Why I'm guessing level 30? nobbi is 38 and he told me he was maxed on these stats some weeks ago.

my stats on speed+thrust were maxed at about lvl 35, and the only other things i had upgraded were portal,rocket and cloak, which are all essentials to weasel. I chose to upgrade speed instead of vengeful bastard and prismatic array cause I didn't think I needed them.

because x's are very likely to have max movement stats plus a rocket, their movement can be very unpredictable, thus hard to dodge. A rocket allows an x to go from 0 or even negative speed to full speed.This is not that case with javs. And even if isn't facing your way, it can quickly turn because of max roation.

Rockets last for 2 seconds, by the time its reached top speed it slows down. Weasels are hard to turn around so a terrier with high thrust should be able to dodge a weasel easily. Javs rockets last for much longer and are easier to turn around because of it.

* weasels already have multi. This, together with l3s and rockets makes weasel players hardly require any aim.

i don't have multi.

Also, imo portals are not all that useful. Plus, there is anti. There is no anti to rockets. No, reps are not the anti to rockets.

why aren't portals useful, and if there was an anti to rockets then what would be the point of them?

weasels are meant to be support ships. They even get profit share. But often, weasels players are the ones that get the most kills and the best ratio in a game. All the RP from kills plus profit sharing makes them easy to level.

1.2% profit share is hardly anything. I wouldn't call 20 rp every 10 mins very useful, it's nothing but a nice bonus. most kills will always go to a lanc. best ratio will always go to a terrier. And also have you looked at my record the last few times I've played? it looks something like 200 wins-400 losses (i know, i suck).


Jngy. I already agreed a wouldn't rocket you D: :P
There is only about 4 weasels that are playing right now, sketch and chrono, and aen and epic li (I've never seen these 2 play before, but i know they are high ranks), I now only play once a week cause of schedule times, so.. can we talk about the 24/7, 2 hour limit again? that sounded promising. It would means nobody would be far higher ranks than others, it would keep things balanced, and meant everyone would be able to play when they wanted to.

(I know, I'm a lagout :/, I promise I'll change ships next reset)
and also.. yea.. i was gonna say something else but I forgot

<3

[crazi]

i think distension should have it's own zone!

[roxxkatt]

youre not the first to have that thought!

[roxxkatt]

5:wicket666> omg a distension basing twbd?
5:Cheese!> and distension bds can even be in DIFFERENT BD CLASSES, you can start with different UP lvls, like a newbie class or a lvl80 class, and perhaps lvl in middle of bds too at like a 10x rp rate
5:Cheese!> in regular pub map too
(or 1 base)
5:Cheese!> no, u would start with 200 up to spend
5eviate> Or just ZCLASS everyone and let them work with what they have in game
5:wicket666> so you have a refit time
5:wicket666> so you can upgrade during play
5:wicket666> nothen saved but win

ill just leave this here...

could be bd,sd,jd, or any ship, really...

[getting pwned]

(I know, I'm a lagout :/, I promise I'll change ships next reset)

So it's true then? There will be a ship reset? I asked qan directly a few weeks ago, and he said he didn't plan on it.


I don't want to be dramatic, but in all honesty, if there is a ship reset, I won't play again. I've put too much time into leveling my WB to have it set back at 0 again.

[KuNi]

Oh. Well I just assumed there would be a reset sometime. The game would be quite boring after you got a level 60 ship, or if you were level 0 and were facing all level 50 ships, unless they add something new once your a certain level the game would get boring.Also, people new to distension might not want to start playing now, because they feel they have a really low ship and wont be able to catch up with other players. Theres been a lot of new stuff added, and everything should be there at the beginning.
I think one reset about every 10 months would be good, but I know this would stop many people playing

[getting pwned]

Oh. Well I just assumed there would be a reset sometime. The game would be quite boring after you got a level 60 ship, or if you were level 0 and were facing all level 50 ships, unless they add something new once your a certain level the game would get boring.Also, people new to distension might not want to start playing now, because they feel they have a really low ship and wont be able to catch up with other players. Theres been a lot of new stuff added, and everything should be there at the beginning.
I think one reset about every 10 months would be good, but I know this would stop many people playing

Oh shit. I didn't know that was you Nobbi. Hi.

I've seen some players come into dist and be able to hold their own against 40+ ships, and have even passed me in leveling. [I fail hardcore]

I know another arena is in the future, and maybe there should a level restriction to who can play in each arena.

I'm not fond of the ship reset idea at all, and I know quite a few people who would stop playing if qan did that. Now I know it IS just a game, but to put so much time into a ship just have it reset kind of defeats the purpose of playing the game in the first place. No one wants to lose their beloved ship, eh?