Distension before TWL?

[TagMor]

ok
Could it be that for a number of people, TWL represents a substitute to all those years of being left out of the Highschool football team?
And anything that detracts from the glory of TWL would ensue cause the return of those same feelings of rejection and inferiorority?

[kthx]

2kill> ?find dbot
Not online, last seen 11 hours ago

hosting times

Monday/Wednesday/Friday

today... tuesday

Are you an idiot, look at the original post time.

[roxxkatt]

im a huge faggot who doesnt try new events, and doesnt read posts.
I hate roxxkatt because he simply points out that im a huge fucking idiot.

fixed

[2kill]

Let me provide this as an example of of why distension shouldn't be hosted before TWL.

Earlier today I was hosting a hockey game and everything was fine, after distension was started however (towards the middle of my game) phases, and overall lag were raised quite a bit.
---

Let me just repost that since idiots tend to ignore obvious things.

2kill> ?find dbot
Not online, last seen 11 hours ago

hosting times

Monday/Wednesday/Friday

today... tuesday

[DankNuggets]

Let me provide this as an example of of why distension shouldn't be hosted before TWL.

Earlier today I was hosting a hockey game and everything was fine, after distension was started however (towards the middle of my game) phases, and overall lag were raised quite a bit.

Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:50 ms Average:60 ms Low:30 ms High:350 ms S2C: 0.1% C2S: 0.0% S2CWeapons: 0.-8%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:120 ms Average:120 ms Low:100 ms High:700 ms S2C: 0.1% C2S: 0.1% S2CWeapons: 0.-6%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:30 ms Average:30 ms Low:30 ms High:60 ms S2C: 0.1% C2S: 0.1% S2CWeapons: 0.-3%
SCORE: Evens:12 Odds:7
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:130 ms Average:110 ms Low:100 ms High:180 ms S2C: 0.1% C2S: 0.1% S2CWeapons: 0.-9%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:40 ms Average:40 ms Low:30 ms High:50 ms S2C: 0.7% C2S: 0.0% S2CWeapons: 0.0%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:110 ms Average:110 ms Low:90 ms High:180 ms S2C: 0.2% C2S: 0.0% S2CWeapons: -1.0%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:130 ms Average:90 ms Low:70 ms High:500 ms S2C: 0.1% C2S: 0.0% S2CWeapons: 0.-7%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:40 ms Average:30 ms Low:10 ms High:130 ms S2C: 0.2% C2S: 0.0% S2CWeapons: 0.-6%

Please notice the almost constant - s2c weapons that were not present before distension was started. If nothing else changes your mind, obviously this should, and hopefully you aren't so avid about running distension that you are willing to have people lagging like they do above just because you have too much ego to step back and decide that it isn't a good idea to run the morning before twl.

---

Let me just repost that since idiots tend to ignore obvious things.

look, I'd like to believe you, but I can't. And since I can't *lag for my own S2CWeapons, and because the rest of my lag doesn't change during distension, I'm inclined to not believe you.

You could also post a screen shot of this instead of just copy/pasting lines that show no sort of time elapsed or prove anything. Why is your HIGH different all those times? Did you log off and back in a lot? Did your lag stablize? When I check my lag, the high is always the high unless I'm getting on and off a lot, which tends to through off my lag as well...

at least you're trying this time.

[kthx]

Let me provide this as an example of of why distension shouldn't be hosted before TWL.

Earlier today I was hosting a hockey game and everything was fine, after distension was started however (towards the middle of my game) phases, and overall lag were raised quite a bit.

Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:50 ms Average:60 ms Low:30 ms High:350 ms S2C: 0.1% C2S: 0.0% S2CWeapons: 0.-8%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:120 ms Average:120 ms Low:100 ms High:700 ms S2C: 0.1% C2S: 0.1% S2CWeapons: 0.-6%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:30 ms Average:30 ms Low:30 ms High:60 ms S2C: 0.1% C2S: 0.1% S2CWeapons: 0.-3%
SCORE: Evens:12 Odds:7
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:130 ms Average:110 ms Low:100 ms High:180 ms S2C: 0.1% C2S: 0.1% S2CWeapons: 0.-9%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:40 ms Average:40 ms Low:30 ms High:50 ms S2C: 0.7% C2S: 0.0% S2CWeapons: 0.0%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:110 ms Average:110 ms Low:90 ms High:180 ms S2C: 0.2% C2S: 0.0% S2CWeapons: -1.0%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:130 ms Average:90 ms Low:70 ms High:500 ms S2C: 0.1% C2S: 0.0% S2CWeapons: 0.-7%
Wark <ER>> *lag
PING Current:40 ms Average:30 ms Low:10 ms High:130 ms S2C: 0.2% C2S: 0.0% S2CWeapons: 0.-6%

Please notice the almost constant - s2c weapons that were not present before distension was started. If nothing else changes your mind, obviously this should, and hopefully you aren't so avid about running distension that you are willing to have people lagging like they do above just because you have too much ego to step back and decide that it isn't a good idea to run the morning before twl.

---

Let me just repost that since idiots tend to ignore obvious things.

[Stabwound]

I'm glad to have finally found out why I suddenly got extremely bad lag about half an hour before our TWL matches began, while I didn't have any lag earlier on this day and none of my housemates were online.. And that for some retarded side-game that takes zero skill to be succesful in. Thanks, I appreciate it.

Oh man, you finally solved it!

Oh, wait.... isn't it true that Distension hadn't run at all this past weekend?

Please try again.

[Dabram]

the way to do this: let there be one thing to play at a time. honestly, do that. make it so at each stage along the year there is pretty much one thing to do. we dont have the population to support multiple different little things. the key is to space out the things well enough that it ropes people along.

I've always agreed with this. TW should have a calender for each year, what we can expect when. It shouldn't be too difficult to set something like that up either.
TWL --> Draft league(s) (I'd say split dueling/basing so you can have more (stable) teams instead of these '3 league teams', TWD/TWL show how difficult it is for a 3 league squad to stay around, expecting the same of a 'draft team' is ludicrous) --> BWC (could also be Dueling-worldcups) or have TWEL/Tourny-playoffs-thingy at the same time for duelers. --> Last few months of TWL-qualification should be getting near again, throw in some 'special' big weekend events (small strikeball/warzone tourny or something fun) --> and TWL again.

Oh forgot about Distension. Oops.

[DankNuggets]

all knowing one,

since you want to go this route, let me say something. you want to know when TW usually fucks up? when it asks the people what they want. it shouldnt be run as a democracy, it should be run to last. staff used to take input and comments from people, then make decisions that promoted the zone. that did what was best for the zone, not just the few vocal ones.


?go elim is popular for both wbs and javs. the people bitch enough to seperate it. staff does reluctantly... elim popularity suffers in the long term and noone cares about it anymore like they used to.

?go tourny is new and automated and popular. it gets turned on 24/7 per request of the all knowing people and it dies soon after

people whine and bitch that pubs have levis in them and theyre angry, pure pubs are created. in the long term all pubs suffer in general.


with your vast experience, name me a few times in TW where the community demands something and then it works for a prolonged period of time. please do not use distension as an example being that is what we are discussing to begin with. make your decision based on long term results, not your short term fun to be had. convince me that this will be good for tw in the long term and that it will improve TWL and pubs (which will always be the focal points of trenchwars). (as a side note, please do not say put distension in pubs)

right now, we have a few vocal people (you, roxcheezkat, dako etc etc etc) that are pushing for 24/7 distension (sans TWL sundays) and you will not bend until you have it. if you want it, take it to another zone. it doesnt belong here. at least take it to another zone and remove the kinks. let it thrive for a while in another zone. maybe after it is established we can combine it again? but do not let it go 24/7 inside TW.

I don't know, what about automated TWD? I think that's pretty popular. It's hard to come up with an example when the entire poplulation graph is a downhill slope. You know what the magical decision that will make the game more populated is? No? Neither does anyone. No decision, wheter it was made from player imput, or wether it was done randomly by staff (big weasel) has had a positive impact.

No change has had a positive impact. Since you want to challenge me to find something that doesn't exist, it's my turn. What rhymes with purple? (as a side note please don't say "light urple")

And why does distension have to be the focal point of TW, quit changing the arguments. I don't want it to be, and it doesn't need any attention from staff if it's run like I've suggested, so they can continue to focus on pubs and TWL and make them better.

And it's not like I don't make plenty of suggestions to help TW in general. You're trying to make it sound like the two can't coexist, which you must have convinced yourself of now. It can run 24/7 and not kill TWL. The argument against this keeps coming back to "but then distension will die", and coming from someone who's main goal is that, you're not convincing me.

I don't think distension is a cure for the zone, and it could very well die out in a year or two. I wouldn't shed a tear if that was the will of the people. I'd rather them move on and play what they like, or change the game to meet their needs and wants. Not everything has to be about the greater goal of sustaining TW indefinitely, and this is something that requires little staff dedication, so it's not like we're taxing them or keeping them from sustaining TW on their own.

[Zeebu]

I guess since my parents are older than me, and have been voting a long time, their vote should count more than mine. right?

i'm not holding myself above anyone (except maybe wark, fucking asshole) and it's sad that that's the route you've got to take Zeebu.

You can't place value or weight on your own opinion Zeebu, that's not up to you to decide. It's up to the people processing your opinions to decide how important they think they are, or whether they hold more merit than anyone else's.

Your opinion might count more, but your vote shouldn't. If people choose to hold your opinion's over mine, that's their choice. But if it comes down to a vote, which maybe it should, then your opinion doesn't mean any more than mine.

I can get flamed all day on this forum, and it won't matter. You guys are going to keep with your own. Hell, a good many people I end up arguing with don't play this game anymore... shouldn't my opinion count more than them? Well it's not up for me to decide, only the people who read it/hear it.

Put this to a vote in the pubs, at any random time, and it'll go in favor of distension. Put it up for a week and it will go in favor of distension. the only way you're not going to get a vote in favor of distension is to put it on the forums (which it could still win) or to put it in some private arena and not tell everyone about it. Even if you did it zone-wide during TWL, it would still pass.

all knowing one,

since you want to go this route, let me say something. you want to know when TW usually fucks up? when it asks the people what they want. it shouldnt be run as a democracy, it should be run to last. staff used to take input and comments from people, then make decisions that promoted the zone. that did what was best for the zone, not just the few vocal ones.


?go elim is popular for both wbs and javs. the people bitch enough to seperate it. staff does reluctantly... elim popularity suffers in the long term and noone cares about it anymore like they used to.

?go tourny is new and automated and popular. it gets turned on 24/7 per request of the all knowing people and it dies soon after

people whine and bitch that pubs have levis in them and theyre angry, pure pubs are created. in the long term all pubs suffer in general.


with your vast experience, name me a few times in TW where the community demands something and then it works for a prolonged period of time. please do not use distension as an example being that is what we are discussing to begin with. make your decision based on long term results, not your short term fun to be had. convince me that this will be good for tw in the long term and that it will improve TWL and pubs (which will always be the focal points of trenchwars). (as a side note, please do not say put distension in pubs)

right now, we have a few vocal people (you, roxcheezkat, dako etc etc etc) that are pushing for 24/7 distension (sans TWL sundays) and you will not bend until you have it. if you want it, take it to another zone. it doesnt belong here. at least take it to another zone and remove the kinks. let it thrive for a while in another zone. maybe after it is established we can combine it again? but do not let it go 24/7 inside TW.

[DankNuggets]

Dear Santa,

For Christmas, please get distension out of SSCU Trenchwars if it happens to go 24/7. I have been a really good boy this year.

EDIT:

also dank, dont you think that people who have played this zone for 10 years should have a bit more of a say than people who have played it 2 or 3? by saying that you dont want to affect TWL you just want distension 24/7 that is what you are doing. you are telling me that my opinion doesnt matter.

i have been through alot with this zone for a long time. my opinion should matter more than someone who hasnt. if you dont think so, then you can go fuck yourself.

I guess since my parents are older than me, and have been voting a long time, their vote should count more than mine. right?

i'm not holding myself above anyone (except maybe wark, fucking asshole) and it's sad that that's the route you've got to take Zeebu.

You can't place value or weight on your own opinion Zeebu, that's not up to you to decide. It's up to the people processing your opinions to decide how important they think they are, or whether they hold more merit than anyone else's.

Your opinion might count more, but your vote shouldn't. If people choose to hold your opinion's over mine, that's their choice. But if it comes down to a vote, which maybe it should, then your opinion doesn't mean any more than mine.

I can get flamed all day on this forum, and it won't matter. You guys are going to keep with your own. Hell, a good many people I end up arguing with don't play this game anymore... shouldn't my opinion count more than them? Well it's not up for me to decide, only the people who read it/hear it.

Put this to a vote in the pubs, at any random time, and it'll go in favor of distension. Put it up for a week and it will go in favor of distension. the only way you're not going to get a vote in favor of distension is to put it on the forums (which it could still win) or to put it in some private arena and not tell everyone about it. Even if you did it zone-wide during TWL, it would still pass.

[kthx]

Someone just leak the code to EG and let them host it 24/7 then sit back and watch the players rise.. and then start dwindling back to TW like always.

[Zeebu]

Dear Santa,

For Christmas, please get distension out of SSCU Trenchwars if it happens to go 24/7. I have been a really good boy this year.

EDIT:

also dank, dont you think that people who have played this zone for 10 years should have a bit more of a say than people who have played it 2 or 3? by saying that you dont want to affect TWL you just want distension 24/7 that is what you are doing. you are telling me that my opinion doesnt matter.

i have been through alot with this zone for a long time. my opinion should matter more than someone who hasnt. if you dont think so, then you can go fuck yourself.

[DankNuggets]

yeah. i pretty much agree with this.


also, kthx, go read my post in one of the other dist hater threads


edit: just wanted to say that the response to this will be something along the lines of : "shut up you dont know that. distension is totally new and it wont be like everything else in the rest of the zone. i jhave been playing at least 2 years and i know that it wont do what tourny did."

you know. something to that effect.

no, I'd say that you don't have 80 ppl clamoring for ?go tourny to be hosted at any given time. I'd also say that since you've played distension enough, you should agree with your own statement in quotes. And, if you really think you're insuluting me by saying I've played for 2(actually 3) years, you're mistaken. I'm sorry I wasn't here for your "glory" days, and maybe that's why I think I have a more pragmatic approach to solving new issues, because I'm not deluded into thinking it's the same situation every time that it's been for 10 years.

Im speaking from the point of a twd player. We have played probably 70 twd matches atm in 3 weeks

The reason for stopping distension on sundays is to prevent lag and server recycles. Thats a fact and wow i actually agree 100 percent with liquid blue.

so you've played 70 matches in 3 weeks, and you're raising hell over 3 of them. Not to mention how many other matches you played before those 3 weeks and when distension when full public release. Or the matches you played when it was in beta for a year.

And that's a you agree 100 percent with DankNuggets on. While I think there's probably a < 2% chance of it causing a recycle, I'm not going to argue about the lag, I haven't noticed it, but I can't prove it's not there. That being said, you'd be hard pressed to find a post I've made in the past few days where I've disagreed with you on hosting it on sundays. It's like I'm shouting at deaf people.

I never said I'm doing the TWL population a favor, where the heck did you come up with this? At the same time I see no reason for them to serve us an injustice.

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V

And what HMS said-- the schedule's been slashed already, we concede some playing time (which is a small fraction of what we want) to appease you guys, quit asking for more. I guess it's true, you give a mouse a cookie..

And remember... The distensionites have given up over 50% of their fun for the zone. The least the zone can do for them is let them play when it IS the time.

Both those quotes make it sound like Distension players are doing the TWL population a favor by not having Distension hosted on Sundays, when it shouldn't even be considered to be hosted on the same day of a TWL match.

You're being served an injustice? If you feel it's unfair, that's a shame but it really doesn't matter. Distension does not have all the bugs worked out, it has been prone to cause server recycles and lag issues, therefore it should not be hosted before a TWL match. Period. It doesn't matter if that offends or annoys you, it's the simple facts. It doesn't matter how many people love Distension, or anything else, the fact is that TWL is a big deal for Trench Wars and it shouldn't have to deal with extra lag or a server recycle, just because a few Distension players wanted to get 2 more hours in before a TWL match.

I'm sorry if it sounds like we're doing you a favor by not having it on sunday, my intention was to make it sound like we're doing you a favor by dropping the # of hosted hours per week in half. And also hosting it at off peak times. Considering the powers that be could effectively run it as often as they're online, they are doing you a favor by limiting the time it's run. It's not "doing you a favor by only making you lag bad for a couple of hours". That's an unfounded statement, the bot hasn't caused lag but one a minority of occassions. It's possible that it would, but it's nonsense to say it will.

I am being served an injustice-- a game I enjoyed freely in my spare time now only runs when I'm at work or asleep. If you think that's a shame and that it doesn't matter, then I think we've ceased to have a civil discussion. Remember, we're not asking that distension interfere with TWL. By default, if it runs at all it will be in contention with TWD, since that runs 24/7.

Really? you think the half-dozen server recycles have cancelled anywhere near the # of games that reducing the Distension schedule has? It hasn't.

Doesn't matter, see above. I personally like Zeebu's idea (great way to keep up population of TW in the offseason of TWL) but regardless of how many games from the Distension schedule have been reduced, it should not be hosted before a TWL match. Work out another schedule if you have to, don't try to cram Distension and TWL on the same day, especially if Distension is known to be buggy.

Glad you agree with me on the sunday scheduling, sometime in the future you might stop bringing it up like you don't. And it's known to be buggy at times, but it's also the most frequently updated and repaired bot they have. Also, it doesn't have an extensive history of crashing the zone, but it has done it in the past. Two spurts of updates throughout it's time have caused the zone to crash, and both were caught and stopped within a few days of it happening.

Not to mention that the server recycles occasionally other times. Or that you can restart dds. i'm not saying that's ideal, but at least i'm not asking to limit your time.

You shouldn't even think of asking to limit the time of TWL, that's the whole point. Like kthx pointed out, it's been a highlight of TW for over 4 and a half years, the schedule for TWL shouldn't be moved around for a newcomer event like Distension, especially considering it only happens once a year.

And I'm not, you're just repeating what I said in the end of my quote. Don't act like I ever was; I said that to point out the hypocrisy/double standard involved in most of the complaints. And now I've suggested moving TWL for distension? Please keep this reasonable and don't say things like that.

What you don't seem to understand is that the distension players are doing everything they can to accomodate the TWL players, while the TWL players won't concede an inch, and have the ultimate goal of ruining our game.

You're fucking right, and they shouldn't concede in this case. It happens once a year, has been a tradition for years, is highly anticipated by numerous squads, and Distension is already being talked about going 24/7. Distension players can hop on these forums and discuss how to fix pub on Sundays, instead of trying to throw a big event for TW out of whack.

What am I asking them to concede? I'm just pointing out that this has been a completely one-sided compromise on our part, and that I don't plan to sit idly by until you run it into the ground. I hope to god the people making the decisions behind wheter or not it becomes 24/7 have enough sense to see through the shortsightedness of some people here, but there's a chance that won't happen (look at current schedule) and I'm going to do all I can to make sure it does go 24/7 in some form.

And I know you're not accusing me of only trying to advocate for distension, I've graced this board with my suggestions on virtually every aspect of the game, much to the community's annoyance. I wish my efforts garnered more attention in those threads as well, because I'm willing to help any arena I can.

It's not about the Sunday time slot, it's about the HORRIBLE schedule, and REDUCING the overall playing time. Quit complaining about shit that affects you way less than it's affecting me. That's the sentiment with the distension players.

You guys need to coordinate a better schedule and try to work it out so it's accessible for everyone and not interfering with TWL. It's going to take alot of adjusting to get the schedule (and the code) working correctly, so you can either be patient and try to work it all out or try to upset one of the biggest events in the zone just because things aren't going smoothly in the beginning.

I agree we need a better schedule. Too bad they don't head any of our advice when they make them. As far as I see it, the schedule's only necessary during TWL, as it should go 24/7 when TWL is over. A good numbe of adjustments to the code are minor additions, not just fixes to bugs that cause lag or crashes, though those are certainly implemented when needed. We've been waiting for quite some time, but I'm willing to continue. You have to realize the longer we wait and be patient, the less serious we will be taken, and eventually we will be ignored. We will not be ignored in this matter.

You guys complain about waiting 20 mins to find a dd (when it's like that anyway) but try getting up at 5 AM to play your favorite arena...

Boo fucking hoo, try waiting a year for TWL and having the server recycle or major lag upset some of the games because some guys want to collect rpg points for their spaceship for 2 hours.

Oh wait, the server hasn't recycled during TWL yet. And it won't because the two won't be running concurrently. And I don't think having to wait a year for TWL is doing anything to help this zone's population, especially the type of players who will play daily. Give me 2 hrs when I want it, and I wouldn't ask for more.

[Liquid Blue]

When people like Zeebu or Vehicle (and sometimes even Dank) make coherent, reasonable posts I don't mind talking about Distension

but when people like roxxkat jump around every Distension thread and just quote whoever isn't cheering his precious event on it makes the lot of them seem like cock nuggets

it's not fair but he spams more stupid shit than they can make coherent posts