Public Committee 2.0

[Maverick X+]

Well i was asked by Capt and i answered the call to become apart of the committee, 12pm EST is a bit of a stretch for me but Capt did say he'd post a log of it so if i cannot attend, i can post my opinions once i get home tomorrow evening.

[CaptainPoopface]

First Meeting

Low turnout (Liquid Blue, TagMor, Maverick X+, me) but a decent discussion.

Before we actually change anything, we should have a forum or subforum where we can post all these logs, and where other players can post feedback.

Quick summary:
Remember that any proposed changes would be tested temporarily (a week or so), then reverted until we can determine what people prefer.

We talked about the order of pubs, including

• Making purepub the first pub that fills, followed by free pub (levs allowed). Several people suggested this in the surveys.
• Automatically dividing players between the two pubs as they enter TW (Pure_Luck or Bot Dev, is this feasible?)
• Putting players in a default spectator arena, so that they must type ?go purepub or ?go freepub to choose what pub to play in. Instructions for this would be in the arena entrance message, A1 instructions, and possibly an arena entrance LVZ image.

We also talked about possible changes to ship 4 to make it more self reliant (more maneuverable), possibly compatible with basing, and requiring more effort to become what is the current L3 bomb LT (higher attach bounty, start with L2 bombs and buy L3, attach limit for terrier or freq limit for ship 4...). Only one lev was present and has an unusual style among levs. Lev changes are also potentially complex. We should involve more ship 4 players before deciding.


Here is a log for those who could not attend.

Liquid Blue>  sooo how many do we have? 2, 3?
CaptainPoopface> just you me and tag so far 
Liquid Blue> i guess people will just view the log later?
TagMor> wait is that meeting now?
CaptainPoopface> several ppl said they wanted to be in on it... guess we can go ahead though
Liquid Blue> ok
CaptainPoopface> yeah Tag, 12 PM EST
TagMor> yeh ok
Liquid Blue> so what were the results you and Dank had, Cpt?
Maverick X+> kk
CaptainPoopface> ok, here is a list of the things people suggested
CaptainPoopface> which pub comes first; how players are distributed between pubs (vs. dumping everyone in one pub until it fills), small weasel...
CaptainPoopface> teamkilling (jav, lev, shark)
CaptainPoopface> spawnkilling / safe spawn
CaptainPoopface> some concession to spawn duelers
CaptainPoopface> new maps "but keep it simple"
CaptainPoopface> several ppl hate the holiday maps, particularly the asteroids thing recently
Liquid Blue> lol
CaptainPoopface> want priv. freqs in pub; spectators should be booted faster or not count toward arena limit; crackdown on cheating
CaptainPoopface> teams scrambled after best of 3 victory (purepub), more ship restrictions (probably purepub), improvements in voting system (very mixed opinions on that), some penalty for LT handling abilities, and a tutorial
CaptainPoopface> that's it
Liquid Blue> wow nice list
Maverick X+> well i threw out my ideas for levs and lt's in general and thats up on the forums
CaptainPoopface> yeah, a lot of those are not workable without bots though. and when anything involves bots, you must assume the bot will break a lot, and how that will affect the game
TagMor> kontrolz and i were discussing maybe taking away lev prox
Liquid Blue> well which of those do you think would be easy to tackle first off
TagMor> and prizing it for flag wins/ buying it at high price
Liquid Blue> hmm i think its a good idea
Liquid Blue> dunno how levi players will feel about it
CaptainPoopface> blast radius cannot be adjusted easily on the fly
Liquid Blue> its obvious we can't work on the bot stuff right away
CaptainPoopface> if that's what you mean
Liquid Blue> like cp.t was saying
TagMor> yeh
Liquid Blue> no i think he means making the bombs for levi, like xradar is for spider
CaptainPoopface> all bomb blast radii are linked
CaptainPoopface> oh I see
CaptainPoopface> well we should discuss that with more levs present, although I'm happy to go into it now
TagMor> well levs would need to spawn with some kind of bomb
Liquid Blue> oh they do? i didn't know that
CaptainPoopface> getting back to LB's point, the easiest to tackle first would be which pub comes first, and how players fill them in
Maverick X+> wait what?
Liquid Blue> yea the levi issue can wait until we have input from levi players
Maverick X+> well the suggestions i made for levs are well within reason and do not need a bot to manage
CaptainPoopface> L1 bomb blast radius (jav bomb) is X. L2 bombs automatically have 2X that blast radius, and L3 bombs have 3X that blast radius
Maverick X+> well you're talking to practically the main lev player that doesnt lt lol
Liquid Blue> oh my bad
Liquid Blue> i didnt know you played levi
Maverick X+> you dont play in pub 0 a lot do you liquid?
Liquid Blue> how would you feel about tag/kontrolz's idea?
CaptainPoopface> I would like to make the lev more independent and less spammy
CaptainPoopface> but I base 
Liquid Blue> i play at random times 
Liquid Blue> i would as well cpt.
Maverick X+> which ideas did he have, i musta overlooked something
CaptainPoopface> but I don't see ship 4 players willing to compromise their devastating L3 bombs for anything. Would like to hear more of their opinions
Liquid Blue> the idea of taking the levi bomb and making it a high priced item to buy
Liquid Blue> like xradar for spiders
Maverick X+> you mean anti
Liquid Blue> my bad, yea anti 
Maverick X+> well, lev is ment to be a heavy bomber
CaptainPoopface> well, if we try that, like Tag says, then that means ship 4 spawns fat and slow with crappy bombs. How does it get points to buy bombs?
Liquid Blue> you're right cpt, I think alot of levi players will be upset
Liquid Blue> true
Maverick X+> and the level 3 bombs arent really that much of an issue, its the fact that every lev thinks that the only way they can have fun is to LT
CaptainPoopface> we would have to change its handling to give it more advnatage, which I wouldn't mind doing.
Liquid Blue> would that be an easy task to do though?
TagMor> how much different are l3 bombs from l2?
Maverick X+> its LT that really ruin flag games, not levs alone in general... though i've been known to wreak havok on FR's countless times =P
CaptainPoopface> if the lev has faster speed, faster turning, spawns with L2 bombs, slower than jav, and higher attach bounty, it might be an awesome ship
Maverick X+> no idea, never seen L2's
CaptainPoopface> buy L3s for 10K
CaptainPoopface> L2 bomb would be twice the radius of a jav bomb, 2/3 the radius of a lev bomb
Liquid Blue> to discourage LT's, couldn't we just set the attach amount super high?
CaptainPoopface> that's one way
Maverick X+> i'm willing to accept a downgraded bomb if it came down to the cost of lev having better movements
Liquid Blue> definitely
CaptainPoopface> I think you're rare though mav
Liquid Blue> then levs wouldn't have to worry about getting spawn killed as much
CaptainPoopface> yes
Liquid Blue> well alot of people hop into lev because it's so destructive with the l3 bomb
Maverick X+> I am Capt, how often do you see a lev actually NOT lt'ing and having fun?
Maverick X+> i've yet to see a lev play it the way it was intially designed.
CaptainPoopface> which was?
Maverick X+> no one really expected way back that levs on a terr would be such a menacing force
CaptainPoopface> there are other ways to limit the devastation of LTs
Maverick X+> it was designed to bombard walls to clear a path for other ships to take the FR
Maverick X+> has anyone read my long post in the pub sticky?
CaptainPoopface> I did
Liquid Blue> not yet
Maverick X+> you should liquid, i broke down most of the ships
Liquid Blue> definitely plan to
Liquid Blue> probably going to be expensive to live around there
Maverick X+> but one thing i do need to say that i'm sure EVERY lev would agree on, that delay on using a rep and being able to use something else, guns/bombs/rocket needs to be fixed
CaptainPoopface> that's easy to fix, but it is linked to other things
Maverick X+> its so damn annoying that a spider can charge a lev and 99% of the time be able to kill it without any worry
Liquid Blue> that is an annoying problem, from when ive been in lev
Maverick X+> yeah i know capt, its linked with the refire rate of bombs themselfs for one thing
CaptainPoopface> I think the rep delay is the same as the bomb fire delay
Liquid Blue> what is it tied into cpt?
CaptainPoopface> meaning you can't change one without also changing the other
Liquid Blue> ohh
Liquid Blue> yea
Maverick X+> its not like thats a big deal for levs anyways, it takes 1100nrg to even fire the damn thing and the recharge rate is so damn slow
Maverick X+> which i dont mind because THAT balances it
Liquid Blue> Maverick which would you rather have
Liquid Blue> more manuverbility, or faster recharge?
Maverick X+> i'd take manuverability over any other change for one thing
Liquid Blue> I think that would be an easier fix for levs to start out with, than messing with the recharge rate 
Liquid Blue> and the bombs idea
Maverick X+> because thats the #1 reason why people dont like lev, slower than a damn snail
Liquid Blue> yea def
Liquid Blue> and I think alot more lev players would go for it 
CaptainPoopface> all the ship settings can be changed very quickly and easily
Maverick X+> yep
Liquid Blue> oh thats good to know
Liquid Blue> and it will also show that the pub committee isnt trying to exclude levs or donwplay them in pubs
CaptainPoopface> I suspect ship 4 players will view it as a downgrade
CaptainPoopface> but it's hard to know
Liquid Blue> more manuverability?
Liquid Blue> really?
CaptainPoopface> would you be taking anything away?
Maverick X+> in all honesty, a higher bounty attach, higher team green count and getting rid of that rep delay are the main concerns that lev players worry about 
Liquid Blue> we'd have to adjust the domb damage eventually
Liquid Blue> i wonder if more manuverability would lower the amount of LT's
Maverick X+> if you make it more manuverable, you would have no choice but to up the attach bounty
Liquid Blue> for instance if we gave a higher bounty attach, but gave them more manuverbility
CaptainPoopface> if you give them somthing, you have to take away something at the same time I think. Higher attach bounty might do it
Liquid Blue> yea
Maverick X+> 50 attach with team greens up to 35
CaptainPoopface> so you guys are not familiar with the server config file for ship settings?
Liquid Blue> i dont think they would mind the higher attach bounty anyway since they can survive a bit better on their own
Liquid Blue> i'm not
Maverick X+> i'm not but i've played for so long that i know how they work
CaptainPoopface> well, maneuverability involves: rotation speed, thrust, max speed, afterburn accel, afterburn energy penalty... I think that's all
Maverick X+> heh, another lev begging for lt's -.-
Maverick X+> you can leave the afterburner alone really
Maverick X+> just a touch more max speed and rotation upgrade only
Maverick X+> because 9 seconds to turn a full 360 is way too much... even tanks dont take that long
CaptainPoopface> but without more acceleration, your trajectory becomes very predictable, like a terrier
TagMor> i dont think more manouverability will work
CaptainPoopface> ^ at high speed
Liquid Blue> why not, tag?
TagMor> unless its increased to a comparable rate to other ships
TagMor> people will continue to lt
Liquid Blue> well that's why we're saying up the bounty attach
TagMor> and monouverability will be insignificant
CaptainPoopface> not true
CaptainPoopface> more turn speed will make a LT much more deadly
TagMor> so it will be still slower but unable to tach to terrs?
Liquid Blue> not if they would need 50 bty to attach
TagMor> then it will just be a spawn fest
CaptainPoopface> not necessarily
CaptainPoopface> then there could be more incentive to play solo or more strategically
Liquid Blue> we're not sure how much the change might be
Maverick X+> well aside from that, my post also covered attach limits for Terriers
Maverick X+> one lev on a LT
CaptainPoopface> that requires a bot
Maverick X+> no it doesnt
TagMor> the sad fact is lev culture is solidified with lt'n
Maverick X+> there's settings that cover that
TagMor> a large number of people log into the game just to lt
CaptainPoopface> I agree Tag
TagMor> take that away and we most likely lose those players
Maverick X+> thats so true Tag... 
Liquid Blue> they LT because they haven't had a chance to use a mamnuverable levi in a long time
Maverick X+> I'm not suggesting taking away LT's
CaptainPoopface> but we could allow LT in much the same form, just make it more effort to get there
Liquid Blue> exactly
Maverick X+> I'm just suggesting messures to help calm down their population
Liquid Blue> and while it would take longer to get the bty, it would be easier since they can survive longer
Maverick X+> because when a LT dies, they are right back at it about 1 minute later
TagMor> true
CaptainPoopface> ship limits are one way. teamkilling measures are another way. the map could also be designed so that a terrier cannot fly quickly over the roof
CaptainPoopface> by adding bottlenecks
Maverick X+> well we'll see what these new pub maps add from this contest
Liquid Blue> well map changes should come before or after the levi changes
Maverick X+> but mostly we should focus on the ship changes
Liquid Blue> i dont think it would be wise to do both at the same time
Liquid Blue> true
CaptainPoopface> you may be right
CaptainPoopface> but I've heard nothing from dads about hte map contest lately
Liquid Blue> the initial point that you said we could work on cpt.
Liquid Blue> was which pub should come first
Liquid Blue> what is everyones thoughts on that?
Maverick X+> but going back to the issues of attach limits, that does not require a bot, they are in the settings for terr itself
Maverick X+> well obviously pub0 since this is where levs play 
TagMor> yeh
CaptainPoopface> yes. there are many different opinions about the availablity of levs. the take home point is that there needs to be at least one arena where they can play, and at least one arena where they cannot play
Maverick X+> wouldnt make any sense to make changes to lev in pure pub lol
TagMor> just as long as it has timer turned on
TagMor> so people can base
TagMor> and the pub doesnt turn into a spawn fest
TagMor> which discourages new players
CaptainPoopface> remember, there are players who love the spawnfest 
Maverick X+> one thing i must say, i've been happier playing lev ever since timers here in pub0 were turned on a few weeks ago
Liquid Blue> but where do players go first
Liquid Blue> what if new player get put in pub 0
TagMor> yeh poop, but timer doesnt take it away
Liquid Blue> and they get spawned
Maverick X+> that happens
Maverick X+> but the same can hold true to purepub where all the pro flaggers play
Maverick X+> and they get stuck on the losing team 
Liquid Blue> yea
CaptainPoopface> yeah, really obnoxious when a non-baser just trolls spawn picking people off
Liquid Blue> so how do we decide where players get dumped
TagMor> it isnt difficult for a new player to figure out there are different arenas anyway
Maverick X+> the system thats in place for which arena people play in is fine..
TagMor> agreed
CaptainPoopface> the easiest thing would be to make purepub the first pub. as for how entering players are put in the arenas, I don't know. Might not be possible right now without more trickery
Maverick X+> although i would'nt mind seeing arena limits being upped to 50
TagMor> the only problem with that poop is it stops late night levs
TagMor> due to the second pub dying
CaptainPoopface> it took me a few weeks at least before I realized that one pub was a lot of fun and the other really not (For me). probably would not have stuck with TW if I hadn't randomly been thrown in the basing until I figured it out
Maverick X+> lol
Liquid Blue> hmmm
CaptainPoopface> yes, well the late night levs stop the basing
TagMor> not really
CaptainPoopface> right now, the variables are too tangled for us to know what players really want
Maverick X+> you mean late night LT's stop the basing
Maverick X+> its never a lone lev, keep that in mind lol
TagMor> ive seen some awesome basing in open pub
Liquid Blue> so maybe a question we can toss PL is how difficult it would be to adjust which pub players land in
TagMor> with timer and lt's
TagMor> the lt's joining in on basing
CaptainPoopface> I mean, as the population of an arena approaches 40 (or whatever the max is) and another dwindles, people pile into the only populated arena, whether it's what they want to do or not
Liquid Blue> true but on the other hand tag there are times when you have everyone LT'ing and spawning
Liquid Blue> and no one trying to base
Maverick X+> i have as well which is why i've had fun as lev
Maverick X+> well that is kinda in place already cap
TagMor> which is why forcing levs to be more involved in basing is an important issue
Maverick X+> if pub0 is at 35+ it throws you into pure from what i noticed
CaptainPoopface> yes, where usually late at night (USA) there are not enough people to actually play, and you just wait for a space in pub 0
Maverick X+> I think it would be funny to see the reaction of taking away LT's for a week lol
CaptainPoopface> we don't want to do that
TagMor> no
Maverick X+> i know 
TagMor> lt's d/l another game and never come back
Liquid Blue> yea exactly
Maverick X+> I just ment it as a joke just to see the reaction of lev players
CaptainPoopface> especially in the beginning, we need to maintain that we are fair and have all players' interests in mind. that would create a conspiracy theory that we are out to get them
Maverick X+> because most levs do play other ships anyways lol
Liquid Blue> tag you definitely had a point with involving the lev more with basing
CaptainPoopface> I don't think they are compatible... what did you mean Tag?
Maverick X+> well i'm living proof of having lev more involved with basing.... when i play thats what i go for, FR
TagMor> like maybe prizing l3s for flag wins
TagMor> or something similair
TagMor> maybe not so drastic as that
TagMor> shrap for team leader levs? 
CaptainPoopface> it's very compromising to the other ships defending FR to have a lev in base. The lev can't fire without killing teammates if they are actively defending. There is no cram with a lev in base
TagMor> yeh i think they would still need to lt
CaptainPoopface> for lev to be more involved with basing, there would have to be auto TK rules in place
TagMor> with the odd fr lev
Liquid Blue> do you guys think it would be more intense, or less intense with a bigger fr
Maverick X+> well TK's in FR are common i'll give it that
Maverick X+> but for the most part, people who are getting TK'ed are reckless...
CaptainPoopface> it depends on what obstacles are in it, and how big and how many entrances there are
Maverick X+> like they sit right near where a lev is aiming
TagMor> bigger fr could work for lev-friendly basing
CaptainPoopface> usually the entrance, where all the enemies are...
Liquid Blue> because I'm just thinking about my old zone, SWR Realm
Maverick X+> bigger FR also makes it a pain for LT's though
Liquid Blue> we had a multitude of huge bases, about twice the size of TW base
TagMor> true mav
Maverick X+> more space = more room to move out of blast range
Liquid Blue> and the settings had the sharks with the l3 bombs
Liquid Blue> but it wasn't a pain in regards to tk because of how much space you had in the bases- and the fighting was still intense
CaptainPoopface> I'd say it depends on too many variables to be workable right now. maybe a bigger FR with 2 main entrances, and a lev could stake out one of them
Liquid Blue> yea we didn't have LT's so i have no experience with big bases and lt's
Maverick X+> anyways going back on issue, when i'm sitting in FR, i tyically dont fire when i know its going to tk someone unless in extream circumstances where it would be collateral damage to save the day
Liquid Blue> fr is so small though
Liquid Blue> there's almost always going to be collateral damage
CaptainPoopface> teammates cannot fight the enemy without being in your shot
Liquid Blue> yea
Maverick X+> true
TagMor> especially with other levs in fr
Liquid Blue> 2 levs in fr and its gg
Maverick X+> but thats the quirk of telling a good lev from a bad lev, knowing when to fire
Liquid Blue> well alot of lev's dont care about being good
Liquid Blue> thats the bad thing
CaptainPoopface> if a basing team is halfway dcent, you will never have a clear shot ;)
Liquid Blue> its actually true with all the ships
Maverick X+> that is true...
Liquid Blue> theres a huge difference in the number of people that play, and the number of people that try to be good 
Maverick X+> anyways, its getting very late for me, i need to jet, i'm going to leave cont open, for whatever reason it doesnt always kick me lol
CaptainPoopface> changes to the map could make lev/LT basing possible
Liquid Blue> ok thanks for coming Maverick
Liquid Blue> it was nice talking to you
CaptainPoopface> .?go afk to stay logged in
Maverick X+> likewise
CaptainPoopface> tag you still here?
Maverick X+> i know capt, i'm just saying that the game doesnt always kick me off when i idle, stayed logged on for 5 hours once
Maverick X+> here in pub
CaptainPoopface> it should auto-log off after X number of deaths without firing a shot. usually 10 or so
CaptainPoopface> Mr. Arrogant will boot you out of spec eventually, and safe zone kicks you after 30 mins
CaptainPoopface> you still here LB?
Liquid Blue> yea
CaptainPoopface> ok how about this
CaptainPoopface> when people log in and get dumped in the default arena, it's the afk arena. They must type ?go purepub or ?go freepub to choose the pub they want
CaptainPoopface> (freepub has no ship restrictions)
TagMor> could work
Liquid Blue> you'll need to let the players know in big letters to type either
TagMor> yeh
Liquid Blue> otherwise its a good idea
CaptainPoopface> there is a way to display a big graphic when people enter
Liquid Blue> that way newbs wont think they're in a broken part of the zone
CaptainPoopface> used in EG very well
Liquid Blue> good but i think it should also be somewhere in the arena
CaptainPoopface> right now, there is some number of players who play pub 0 late at night but would rather base, and some number of players who simply don't play at all because they would rather base
Liquid Blue> like the rules are in the upper corner of the map
Liquid Blue> yea def
TagMor> iunno if splitting the late night pop is a good idea
TagMor> like 10 people in each pub
CaptainPoopface> yeah, it could be in the A1 rules, it could be in the entrance message, and in the entrance LVZ
Liquid Blue> i would just want to give the newbies as easy of a way as possible to understand what they have to do to go to play
CaptainPoopface> yeah, I'd prefer an auto random thing that would shuffle players between the pubs as they enter
CaptainPoopface> Tag, if there are 20 ppl in each pub actively playing ,that is enough to sustain both pubs
TagMor> pup pop can get down to under 10
Liquid Blue> it's usually more skweded than that tho
TagMor> pub*
Liquid Blue> aka what tag just said
CaptainPoopface> but for mixed reasons LB, we don't know
TagMor> and is it really that big of an issue?
Liquid Blue> this is true
TagMor> if timer is on in pub0, there is usually some form of basing
CaptainPoopface> several ppl said they want purepub to be the first pub that fills, followed by LTs. IT was like that a few years ago, from what I gather
Liquid Blue> yes it was like that
Liquid Blue> but LT'ing wasn't as big even 3 years ago
TagMor> yeh but lt's can survive in a pub of less than 20 people
CaptainPoopface> can? yes?
TagMor> so that means a good percentage of the day when they are put in second pub
TagMor> cant*
CaptainPoopface> ah
TagMor> sorry for typos
Liquid Blue> if LT's can survive in lower pubs, that means priority of initial placement, should go to pure pub
Liquid Blue> oh you meant can't
Liquid Blue> well nm then
CaptainPoopface> I think it's still sustainable
CaptainPoopface> it's like having no private freqs, so you can only kill half the arena instead of all of it
CaptainPoopface> well not quite
CaptainPoopface> for now, we have no clear sense of the number of players who want LTs vs. those who don't. Closest thing was the voting bot, in which I saw LTs voted down a lot of the time (which was not a good solution)
TagMor> and people often voted against levis just to see them get specd with high bty
TagMor> out of spite or w/e
TagMor> or cus it was funny
TagMor> to hear them bitch
CaptainPoopface> the argument for putting purepub second at the time, I think, was that if people really wanted to base, then they would leave pub 0 and go to purepub. But that assumption is flawed and has not been borne out. Why not test the other conf
Liquid Blue> ok I'm going to have to head out guys
Liquid Blue> yea i would like to see people go to pure pub first
Liquid Blue> thinking that if they wanted to LT they would just leave
Liquid Blue> it seems like alot of people just go to whichever pub is more full though
CaptainPoopface> ...for the other pub
CaptainPoopface> exactly
Liquid Blue> and if pure pub is low, people will leave
Liquid Blue> which means even less people will go to it
Liquid Blue> never ending cycle
CaptainPoopface> we'll have to schedule another meeting
CaptainPoopface> that's what happens right now anyway
Liquid Blue> yea Tag let us know what is a good time for you
CaptainPoopface> the more ppl leave, the faster more ppl leave
TagMor> k
Liquid Blue> since you stayed up for us, the least we can do is do the same for you
CaptainPoopface> I was expecting more ppl to show, probably Americans
TagMor> its ok, i thought it was tomorrow night
Liquid Blue> np
Liquid Blue> yea i was expecting more people as well
Liquid Blue> no worries we'll get a few more after the results of this go uo
CaptainPoopface> well, throwing a switch and testing for a week would get some attention
Liquid Blue> Cpt. would you mind making a nice post for us on the forum? since you kept the log
Liquid Blue> yea i def agree with you
Liquid Blue> maybe a good switch would be the levi manuverbility
CaptainPoopface> I was thinking just the pub switch for a week
Liquid Blue> we dont need bots or a new pub map for it
Liquid Blue> oh that works too
Liquid Blue> both are simple and dont need external stuff
CaptainPoopface> lev maneuverability is complex but we could try it
TagMor> and l2 bombs
Liquid Blue> im fine with your idea first
TagMor> with option of l3
Liquid Blue> that way we can refine the levi idea
Liquid Blue> yea
CaptainPoopface> L2 to L3 is a big step, will be controversial, but should be tried in some fashion
Liquid Blue> ok i have to jet
Liquid Blue> thanks again tag and cpt.
CaptainPoopface> alright, until next time
Liquid Blue> it was nice talking to you two
Liquid Blue> cya later
TagMor> k pce 

[DankNuggets]

First off, sorry for missing the meeting, it's been a giant pain in the ass trying to get moved and clean up the old apt.

I read the log, and most of it hits on stuff we've sorta discussed before, just not in a large group.

higher attach bounty: I think this is a good idea, as long as we keep team greens as a similar % of the needed attach bounty. I'm not sure we want to go as high as 35/50 (starting at 15/20) but it's a step in the right direction. Just going to 15/30 would increase the gap to two kills (IMO it shouldn't be more than 12 bty difference unless we do some major tweaking with the lev movements and weapons). One good point about the 35/50 is that it will allow a lev to get a few kills, but still green another rep/port/rocket to help with getting more kills. It's pretty annoying to use up all your items on one kill, then not be able to green anything else and still need bty to attach. Pretty much have to buy it then, or shoot blindly and hope not to TK. Maybe somewhere in the middle with 23/35?

changes to lev settings: these will be met with a wall of opposition, so it would be wise to dev test these as well as the standard pub testing. I think it could work with level two's and increased manoverability. The problem is that people like maverick who don't LT will be at a disadvantage with the decrease bomb radius. Aside from a total rehaul on the speed/thrust/rotation, a little extra isn't going to compensate for the decreased firepower. Would also change the dynamic of it being a tank. It is a good way to reduce the potentcy of LTs though (also would be a good idea to look into maverick's idea of changing terr settings to only allow 1-2 levs if possible). I wouldn't know where to start with chaning thrust and top speed, it would definitely need to be dev tested thorougly to balance it.

Bigger Flag Room: I think the big obstacle to this is keeping the pubs in line with TWD/L bases. We want people to know how it's going to be down the line so they can get good at it, but I'm not sure we have to follow the wark mantra of "everything must mirrror TWL". Roof shots are a part of the game, and it's a big part for LTs (javs too). At the same time, they should require a little more skill to use than just lining up with a rock. Maybe with a few MORE holes, people in the flagroom could better fight back (LTs would never be safe to sit still and line up). More cover would help with in-fr fighting, but would also make the bombs a little more dangerous. I've been thinking about some sort of "thick" or double layered wall that would negate some of the blast radius of the LTs, and force them to perfectly line up a shot. Maybe even a base entrance close to the midbase ears, so it would alllow people and LTs to access roof easier, but not make it easier to get in the base necessarily, since everyone still spawns below the base. I think we should probably hold off on this until after the new pub maps are presented, and see what we have to work with.

Default pubs: I wish i was there to talk to you guys about this. This was the whole reason for the voting and most of the pub changes. You restated the problem pretty well: late at night, there's only one pub open- so who get's it? It WAS the other way, and I personally remember doing ?help calls to get a bot in a pub with levs because they were all down. While I hesitate to put one pub over the other in terms of importance, I can safely put one over the other in terms of freedom of options on playing style. That being said, as long as there's a timer in all pubs, and there are situations where only one pub will be open, it should be the free-for-all pub. Now onto the solutions. I like the idea of sending everyone to ?afk when they log in, with large and simle A1 text, and possibly even lvz graphics that say something along the lines of

"Pub 0 - free for all; no restrictions"
"Pub 1 - purepub; no levis and no private frequencies"
"All other pubs free for all [note: could say w/e]"
"Elimbeta - elimination games with no teams"
"base - structured basing with team and ship limits"
etc..

I think that would be pretty selfexplanitory (if we even include "type ?go [arena name]" above it). It would require botwork, though i'm not sure it'd be too complicated just to make the graphic pop up. Would be a good place to keep a moderator too. A simplier solution (maybe?) is to alternate pubs when inserting people into the game. That might not be doable though, if memory serves me correctly.

Looks like there's not going to be a lot of input besides people we drag into this. Maybe when we get some plans together, test it for a week, then get Pure_Luck to host a townhall meeting where we can have a discussion about the changes with people currenlty online (got several hundred people last time IRCC)

[Pure_Luck]

I don't think we want to put players in a blank arena, new players won't know what to do at all.

[Maverick]

About dividing players between the two pubs as they enter TW:
This is not doable. The server basically always put players in the first pub and starts filling a new pub once the first is 90% filled - same goes for the 2nd, 3rd, and so on. (There is no setting to change this.)
It's possible to move players entering Trench Wars to a different public but this is not practical. Bots are only meant to advance the gameplay, not be the only reason or way the zone works.

About putting entering players to a subarena:
Not doable and not practical - see above.

No bot is needed for having a lvz image pop up on entering an arena.

P.S. We've had the first pub as the pure public and the second as the "free for all" public for a long time. Weaver (forgive me if I'm wrong) changed this around as a lot of players were having problems getting in the first public (mainly because everybody started playing there after logging in).

[Maverick X+]

Wow I didnt know Pure luck was from LI... spiffy...

Anyways I did rethink the attach bounty just a bit because 35/50 is a big margin but I do still believe that it should be higher just for the sake of team greening, even though that rarely happens anymore... Lord knows how many times i'm flying around and not get a single team green for at least a minute... rather annoying. And of course the more annoying "repel" delay issue needs addressing even though we barely touched base on it in the first meeting.

Anyways, for settings and such, why not make a private arena where we can actually test changes so this way we can actually try out the adjustments? Even though it would be funny to do it straight in the pubs, it obviously would serve better purpose if we were to make an arena where we can try out the changes for ourselves.

[Maverick X+]

In an effort to keep the committee alive, I'm bumping this tread and also trying to spark something from the other members.

Is there any plans on implementing some of the changes discussed any time soon? I do understand the pub test maps are uploaded in which some of us were waiting for and test before we put in the changes but for whatever reason ?go #pub(whatever number) keeps leading to just a regular pub map for me anyways... After speaking to Kontrolz he did bring up the point of people on the committee keeps letting it die before anything gets done but I for one would like to see some changes and keep this going.

[TagMor]

Is it possible to have different ship settings in the two pubs?..
Like Lev with l2 bombs in pure pub, and l3 bombs in open pub?

[Maverick]

Is it possible to have different ship settings in the two pubs?..

Nope

[Maverick X+]

With that in mind, a new idea has popped into my head. It would require players do do a slight bit of work when logging in but how about making pure pub (or regular pub) into a sub-arena this way new settings can indeed be created and separated between the 2?

[Maverick]

I don't like to break your ideas but newbies won't understand that plus it's not how the server is supposed to work (not to mention that it may cause numerous problems that are not anticipated right now).

[Maverick X+]

It was just a thought and as i said it would take a bit of work but I guess you're right about newbies not knowing how things work...

Also MMav whats up with the pub contest arenas, i'm still getting the regular pub maps in each one or am i missing something when i use ?go #pub(#)

[dads revenge]

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=35847

They are there but after the weekend I take down the ones that have been tested and put up the new ones.

[CaptainPoopface]

Sorry, I've been pretty busy with work and haven't had the time to keep kicking this in the ass. I'd like to have another meeting. How is Saturday 12 noon EST (US) again? This is the same time as the last meeting. TagMor & other Aussies, this will be 2 A.M. Sunday for you, meaning 2 hours and 1 minute after 11:59 PM on Saturday.

Here is a list of the things players suggested for changes, from the interviews that DankNuggets and I did awhile ago:

- Bring back small weasel (21 in favor, 2 opposed, 2-3 noncommittal); a couple of different opinions about other weasel settings
- Safe spawn / reduce spawnkilling
- Reduce teamkilling (jav, lev, shark)
- Some kind of handicap for LTs
- Make spectators not count toward arena capacity, or boot them sooner
- Crackdown on cheating
- Map changes: make a "south base" (no flag) or other structure for spawn duelers to run around in; several players commented specifically on how they hated the asteroids map, and a couple of people hate the holiday maps
- Streak bot (Player X is on a 5-kill spree!) / bounty bot (Player X has 100 bounty!)
- King of the hill / king of the ring mode for non-pure pub - a circle or square sits in some part of the map for a short time, and players get extra points for kills from inside the circle, or spending a certain amount of time there. Then the ring moves to some other part of the map.
- Tutorial of some kind

I think that's all. Since turnout was so low the first time, I'm thinking we should throw the switch on one of these and see what happens. Controversy? Everlasting happiness? More involvement? Let's find out. The weasel is probably the easiest change to make, but we can discuss it Saturday. Pure_Luck or Dads, if you no longer have the settings for the small weasel (ship speed, bullet speed, recharge rate, energy penalties for the items), let me know and I can calculate them pretty close.

Post here if the proposed meeting time is not acceptable, and make another suggestion.

[Maverick X+]

I was fortunate to stay for that first meeting on that saturday but i doubt i would be able to do it again.