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Well said in a lot of cases, ph/lf/M_M God. However, there are some points I'm meh about because frankly it does feel like we're back where it started.
First of all, yes, people are pricks in this game. They spam stupid crap like "ez" or "sit" to new players in pub, and constantly troll them, whether in weird violence lingo, or tAlKiNg LiKe ThIs. Frankly, you guys mentioning that is good, because hey, maybe people (starting with myself) will cut the crap, but let's face it, most trolls won't. My point? It's as easy to blame these trolls as it is to blame staff. The difference? With staff and the way you guys compose yourselves, and run the zone, there's something that CAN be done. People trolling and crap is out of our control for the most part, while getting crap done, frankly, is not. I know it's a pretty idiotic and mute point, but I think it's pretty pointless to try to address the issue of people trolling. Worry about what you can control.
Now, I agree with what you said M_M, about making a difference, and getting crap done for a newbie-friendly environment, whether that's training players, or simply getting engaged with them. Frankly, this wasn't the point of my post at all. You guys are sorta addressing something I totally avoided (but it was probably for other members who were posting). Doing something like this would definitely help bring newer players in, but like wage said, it wouldn't really make someone who's logged on once log on again. The point of enhancing our current bots, and the current system we have, whether elim, twd, or 2v2, is to make it more enjoyable for those who ALREADY play, whether obsessively or casually.
As far as staffers being open to new suggestions? I was shocked when I found that out to be honest with you. I don't exactly have the best reputation in TW, but staffers listened to my ideas in-game. Even guys like oooo and Reckful who I publically troll were willing to listen, and honestly, mad props
. It's great and all, but quite honestly, the only reason I made this post was because ALL STAFFERS DID WAS LISTEN. There was absolutely NO progress. The common answer was "yea that's a great idea, we really really should do it... but we can't right now". Yea, understandably so, but a few months later, I call it BS. I presented many alternatives for the current coders of TW, and got off my butt and determined all the factors (seen in the googledocs in my original post) through personally polling and talking to the best players of each ship. Ask Ease, mega, renzi, Weaver, and a bunch of other players how annoying I was in these stages. But guess what? No results.
I agree that it SHOULD be someone from the community. But let's face it, months have passed, and the only players coding are WingZero and maybe Spookedone. Wing has so much crap to do to MAINTAIN the current state of TW that he is unable to enhance it. Gotta give the guy some slack. My point? No, I don't think it's 200% faster to just get someone from the TW community, because if it was, all these ideas would be done by now (6-7 months after they've been presented, and with TWL/TW Website is concerned, 2+ years). If you guys think there's some hidden coding talent in TW, that's great, but how about actually asking around, a few zoners here and there asking for some expertise. Let's face it dudes, speed and getting things done on time is NOT exactly a quality of trench wars staffers. None of the right steps have been taken, and if they have, then, well, your sources are limited, and you go out and look for other alternatives.
What other alternatives are there? Well, first of all, from my knowledge, you guys have NOT tried outsourcing to other zones and asked their developers for some help. How I know? Because I was the one who directly contacted the Chaos League/Powerball guru coder, and was surprised to see someone from TW contact him. I got his interest, AND his email/contact, and gave it to who I thought was the right person (one of the main DEV's), and he didn't bother to give the info to someone else, nevermind bother to contact the dude. Crap like that pisses me off.
If that doesn't work out, I really think it's worth it to hire someone externally, despite all the issues presented (money, lack of familarity, etc.). There are plenty of dudes out there looking for some cash for a side project like this, and I understand in the initial stages it might be gruesome, but in the long-term, it's DEFINITELY beneficial. If your'e smart, and spend an appropriate amount of time, you can find the right guy at the right price. Yea, like I said, short-term, that'll take time. But you'll save a LOT of time in the long haul, whether you hire him for one project, or all of them.
I dunno, this world is growing technologically, it's hard enough for a 2d game to survive. As newbies play more, they look more and more for detail. I know I did. The small stuff, the random stats, the ladders, looking to be the best, etc. This thread was in no way an attempt to get more players to download subspace, nah, that's not exactly my forte. There are people with more expertise who can help, and should help (like LF/MM are saying) with that. I'm personally just tired of the crap.
I appreciate the response though M_M, I really do. I just feel like this is a cycle. Somebody makes a good complaint, public gets a little riled up, you come out of nowhere and ease the riot. That's great and all, but we're back where we started 6 months ago, a year ago, 2 years ago. Talk is awesome, but let's see some freaking results.
Hope you get what I mean M_M. I'm no way trying to vs you, because frankly, I think you're one of the only upper staff members who actually takes appropriate measures to get this zone on it's feet. As great as that is though, changes need to happen, and asap, because you can forget about getting new players when the existing players decide they're tired of the crap and playing this zone is just not fun anymore (wsup ph).
That is all.
First of all, yes, people are pricks in this game. They spam stupid crap like "ez" or "sit" to new players in pub, and constantly troll them, whether in weird violence lingo, or tAlKiNg LiKe ThIs. Frankly, you guys mentioning that is good, because hey, maybe people (starting with myself) will cut the crap, but let's face it, most trolls won't. My point? It's as easy to blame these trolls as it is to blame staff. The difference? With staff and the way you guys compose yourselves, and run the zone, there's something that CAN be done. People trolling and crap is out of our control for the most part, while getting crap done, frankly, is not. I know it's a pretty idiotic and mute point, but I think it's pretty pointless to try to address the issue of people trolling. Worry about what you can control.
Now, I agree with what you said M_M, about making a difference, and getting crap done for a newbie-friendly environment, whether that's training players, or simply getting engaged with them. Frankly, this wasn't the point of my post at all. You guys are sorta addressing something I totally avoided (but it was probably for other members who were posting). Doing something like this would definitely help bring newer players in, but like wage said, it wouldn't really make someone who's logged on once log on again. The point of enhancing our current bots, and the current system we have, whether elim, twd, or 2v2, is to make it more enjoyable for those who ALREADY play, whether obsessively or casually.
As far as staffers being open to new suggestions? I was shocked when I found that out to be honest with you. I don't exactly have the best reputation in TW, but staffers listened to my ideas in-game. Even guys like oooo and Reckful who I publically troll were willing to listen, and honestly, mad props
. It's great and all, but quite honestly, the only reason I made this post was because ALL STAFFERS DID WAS LISTEN. There was absolutely NO progress. The common answer was "yea that's a great idea, we really really should do it... but we can't right now". Yea, understandably so, but a few months later, I call it BS. I presented many alternatives for the current coders of TW, and got off my butt and determined all the factors (seen in the googledocs in my original post) through personally polling and talking to the best players of each ship. Ask Ease, mega, renzi, Weaver, and a bunch of other players how annoying I was in these stages. But guess what? No results.I agree that it SHOULD be someone from the community. But let's face it, months have passed, and the only players coding are WingZero and maybe Spookedone. Wing has so much crap to do to MAINTAIN the current state of TW that he is unable to enhance it. Gotta give the guy some slack. My point? No, I don't think it's 200% faster to just get someone from the TW community, because if it was, all these ideas would be done by now (6-7 months after they've been presented, and with TWL/TW Website is concerned, 2+ years). If you guys think there's some hidden coding talent in TW, that's great, but how about actually asking around, a few zoners here and there asking for some expertise. Let's face it dudes, speed and getting things done on time is NOT exactly a quality of trench wars staffers. None of the right steps have been taken, and if they have, then, well, your sources are limited, and you go out and look for other alternatives.
What other alternatives are there? Well, first of all, from my knowledge, you guys have NOT tried outsourcing to other zones and asked their developers for some help. How I know? Because I was the one who directly contacted the Chaos League/Powerball guru coder, and was surprised to see someone from TW contact him. I got his interest, AND his email/contact, and gave it to who I thought was the right person (one of the main DEV's), and he didn't bother to give the info to someone else, nevermind bother to contact the dude. Crap like that pisses me off.
If that doesn't work out, I really think it's worth it to hire someone externally, despite all the issues presented (money, lack of familarity, etc.). There are plenty of dudes out there looking for some cash for a side project like this, and I understand in the initial stages it might be gruesome, but in the long-term, it's DEFINITELY beneficial. If your'e smart, and spend an appropriate amount of time, you can find the right guy at the right price. Yea, like I said, short-term, that'll take time. But you'll save a LOT of time in the long haul, whether you hire him for one project, or all of them.
I dunno, this world is growing technologically, it's hard enough for a 2d game to survive. As newbies play more, they look more and more for detail. I know I did. The small stuff, the random stats, the ladders, looking to be the best, etc. This thread was in no way an attempt to get more players to download subspace, nah, that's not exactly my forte. There are people with more expertise who can help, and should help (like LF/MM are saying) with that. I'm personally just tired of the crap.
I appreciate the response though M_M, I really do. I just feel like this is a cycle. Somebody makes a good complaint, public gets a little riled up, you come out of nowhere and ease the riot. That's great and all, but we're back where we started 6 months ago, a year ago, 2 years ago. Talk is awesome, but let's see some freaking results.
Hope you get what I mean M_M. I'm no way trying to vs you, because frankly, I think you're one of the only upper staff members who actually takes appropriate measures to get this zone on it's feet. As great as that is though, changes need to happen, and asap, because you can forget about getting new players when the existing players decide they're tired of the crap and playing this zone is just not fun anymore (wsup ph).
That is all.
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