Killing my fun in pub.

[hellmouth]

I think LTs should probably be more discouraged than they are now though I am definitely not anti-lev by any means. One thing to consider is making it harder for levs to go to safe, have a terr change teams and die to power the lev up and then switch back to LT. If LTing happened as a result of levs actually powering up to 20 legitimately, I think it would prevent a lot of the abuse. Implementing that might be tough though.

[Spock!]

what about the inevitable clusterfuck when its 17v17 or even the 24v24 like two nights ago?

Clusterfuck = FUN. The more people running around in close quarters shooting eachother the better.

Not to mention makes it easier to kill with the X.

Amen

[angry.chair]

bring back !buy superlev, or keep the sides entrances to base open indefinitely. 2 levs in base with 47 total people in arena kinda killed the basing

[paradise!]

what about the inevitable clusterfuck when its 17v17 or even the 24v24 like two nights ago?

[Spock!]

Downsizing pub? Smaller the arena = more action and less running. (like I tend to do) Sounds like a groovy idea.

Do it. Gosh.

[Demonic]

People will never be pleased, no matter what you do. Demonic is right, pub is for fun.. If you really want to get into organized basing/game, get in a squad and BD or try to get people in ?go base.

People are free in pub, you can't force them to do what YOU want.

Maybe it's time to downsize the map in pub ? Just a suggestion..

Actually downsizing the map is probably not a bad idea at all!! Or at least give the option to downsize, similar to elim, if a certain # of ppl are in game, doors open etc..

[paradise!]

People will never be pleased, no matter what you do. Demonic is right, pub is for fun.. If you really want to get into organized basing/game, get in a squad and BD or try to get people in ?go base.

People are free in pub, you can't force them to do what YOU want.

Maybe it's time to downsize the map in pub ? Just a suggestion..

when its an 8v8 game with 10/16 of the players in spawn, the map feels entirely too big. That's when it needs to be downsized. Clearly this whole map and base was designed for at least a 11v11 game.

[Arobas+]

People will never be pleased, no matter what you do. Demonic is right, pub is for fun.. If you really want to get into organized basing/game, get in a squad and BD or try to get people in ?go base.

People are free in pub, you can't force them to do what YOU want.

Maybe it's time to downsize the map in pub ? Just a suggestion..

[KrynetiX]

the underlying problem

Ari's base (the original) has been soiled.

You can't just take a well-thought-out base and make oblivious edits to it. Especially not in such a sloppy of fashion as the current pub base has been subjected to. It's a train wreck. It has to be stopped/reverted.

This IS a big problem. What grinds my gears is that this problem can easily be resolved, and forever avoided.

It's common sense to me.

My 2 cents:
1: Restore Ari's original base.
2: Host basing in various player-submitted bases at peak hours (or test in pub one weekend each month) until a solid and well-thought-out base is created.

[Subterranean]

Pinkstar obviously doesn't play pub because old levs destroy any chance of a fair game. I have played about 1/5th less than I usually would since this garbage change. If you can't tell, there have been no good pub basing games since this change has been made...

How is it fair that I can get killed a screen away by some newbie in a lev with horrible aim. This change has basically made lev bombs virtually unavoidable. Many people who actually play pub feel the same way, it is obvious. Pinkstar, people were already complaining of LTs being too powerful so you enhance their power - BRILLIANT!

[kthx]

agreed with the op

wtf are the retards running, er ruining, this game doing?


take away killothon that everyone had fun with supposedly because it hurt basing (wtf 10 minutes an hour?? ) and leave the levs that ruin it all the time

[BooBiesYaY]

I've already made a few arguments against LTs, but I'll address another one here that I've noticed.

Ignoring the immediate effects on pub basing games, LTs in pub mean that new players that don't yet know how to base, or even fly, are subjected to either a swarm of spawnkillers in spawn, or blue/purple bomb spam in base. There have already been threads on the forums about how leagues are dying because there are no new players entering, and about how it's only a competition between the same vet players and vet squads. LTs killing newbs in base will make the newbs not want to base, and focus on spawnkilling and getting lucky one shot kills (if they don't quit the game outright due to spawns or LTs.) This is a problem for both dueling and basing leagues because-

1. Newbs not learning how to base properly means no potential basing leaguers, as they won't want to fight in base and randomly get killed by purple blobs.

2. Newbs not learning how to duel properly because killing AFKs, javs, and sharks in spawn does not prepare newbs for warbird vs warbird fighting.

So LTs are contributing to keeping new players out of leagues.



Next, LTs effectively kill basing by being the complete opposite of the basing and teamwork ethic of TW. Boobiesyay said something about "mixing things up" and "game changing potential" and about how one team usually dominates the other. The problem with allowing LTs to change the game in such a drastic way is that new players won't get the experience of learning how to work together to make a comeback game. Allowing LTs to change the flow of a game so quickly will make newbs apathetic about learning how to fight, and will push them to rely on sudden game-changers like LTs or nukebase.

If a Div I NCAA basketball team never played tough games against other Div I opponents, the team would never learn how to beat teams better than itself. The team would certianly not learn how to play if they were losing against a stronger opponent 50-70 at some point and the refs added 30 points for them at the last second to force their win. Same principle applies to LTs being "game changers" in pub.

In the end, LTs have their "fun" at the expense of allowing new players to learn how to play TW.

Leauges are dying because people have used lag cheats for a decade in them, vets created a political monopoly, and new people are not eligible to participate due to the fact that vets crush their teams in 5 seconds or simply indirectly dont allow their participation because the rules forbid sucky players.

Aging of the game is affecting new people, plus lack of knowing about the game.

Once again pub isnt about being a better baser. its about having fun in a hopefully balanced environment for the most part. When new people are farmed by a freq with vets, i think an lt evening things out is not only legal, its welcome. But that wasn't a main reason i just threw that out there as a benefit of lt's.

New people probably find it more exciting when they see bombs that can do damage and that extra excitement, rather than just a tug of war match anyway. I know when i first joined I thought it was very cool to have that, even before I started LT'ing.

Idk, i can see some good points and i agree with a lot of what you say, but at the same time i still think the benefits of LT's far outweigh the negatives for many reason's.

Are there really still lt's playing often now days?

[BooBiesYaY]

pub is not designed for pure basing, ?go base etc is for that, its for new players to get a feel for ships, to bascially have a little fun doing what you like within the zone rules. People enjoy LT, and pub is the only place for them to do it, so if you want 8v8 basing, use ?go base.

thats exactly right, and LT's existed since i first tried TW with dethefire/lain, which was 10 years ago i guess. but basers think that pub is solely for basing, and anything that interferes with a pure hardcore basing match should be illegal.

personally i dont really care, im gone, but i do care about the survival and players of the game so i have to check the forums now and then. because TW is always special to me and my friends who still play or have left. but now that im gone, i cant imagine who would lt still since we did 80% of all lt'ing lol. maybe spacedust or exec or inferno still do like barely..

[Spock!]

Good Words.

Amen Brother. Amen.

[MegamanEXE]

I've already made a few arguments against LTs, but I'll address another one here that I've noticed.

Ignoring the immediate effects on pub basing games, LTs in pub mean that new players that don't yet know how to base, or even fly, are subjected to either a swarm of spawnkillers in spawn, or blue/purple bomb spam in base. There have already been threads on the forums about how leagues are dying because there are no new players entering, and about how it's only a competition between the same vet players and vet squads. LTs killing newbs in base will make the newbs not want to base, and focus on spawnkilling and getting lucky one shot kills (if they don't quit the game outright due to spawns or LTs.) This is a problem for both dueling and basing leagues because-

1. Newbs not learning how to base properly means no potential basing leaguers, as they won't want to fight in base and randomly get killed by purple blobs.

2. Newbs not learning how to duel properly because killing AFKs, javs, and sharks in spawn does not prepare newbs for warbird vs warbird fighting.

So LTs are contributing to keeping new players out of leagues.



Next, LTs effectively kill basing by being the complete opposite of the basing and teamwork ethic of TW. Boobiesyay said something about "mixing things up" and "game changing potential" and about how one team usually dominates the other. The problem with allowing LTs to change the game in such a drastic way is that new players won't get the experience of learning how to work together to make a comeback game. Allowing LTs to change the flow of a game so quickly will make newbs apathetic about learning how to fight, and will push them to rely on sudden game-changers like LTs or nukebase.

If a Div I NCAA basketball team never played tough games against other Div I opponents, the team would never learn how to beat teams better than itself. The team would certianly not learn how to play if they were losing against a stronger opponent 50-70 at some point and the refs added 30 points for them at the last second to force their win. Same principle applies to LTs being "game changers" in pub.

In the end, LTs have their "fun" at the expense of allowing new players to learn how to play TW.