Public Poll on Leviathan; possible changes

[Acid Tank]

Leave the Lev it just like it is.

[Left_Eye]

The levi is extremely overpowered. The old levi depended upon teamwork to make it survive, as it was really slow but powerful. Others had to help otherwise it would barely make it out of spawn. However, the new levis were made to be very independent. A lot of the time I could see them die, then a few minutes later appear upon side tubes on their own with their speed. Not to mention, the EMPs are too strong against a spider with antiwarp. The EMP, even if it does not kill the spider, will drain it's energy down to 0 (while antiwarp is on) and then antiwarp turns off leaving antiwarp useless against a levi with the current settings.

The old levi is by far the more superior and fitting with our current settings, and they really should be limited in time/duration, not by changing the settings. That's just what I've noticed after playing so far. Additionally, with the new settings, there has been a lot more incidents of them teamkilling with EMPs than the previous levis.

[Shaddowknight]

Id rather adjust settings of this levi than go back to the fun-raping levis of old. Making the bot track and limt it would just be another unneeded thing to tax the bots resources on. Simplifying is better than making things more complicated. We should be relying on the bot to enhance pub play, not restrict it. If things go to shit wjen bot is down cause everyone jumps in and lts and nobody can buy anti, then we obviously are relying too much on the bot to make pub fair and fun.

[Viruk]

The levi is extremely overpowered.

Extremely? Really? And it wasn't previously?

The old levi depended upon teamwork to make it survive, as it was really slow but powerful. Others had to help otherwise it would barely make it out of spawn.

Mostly true, but the new lev is still much weaker than other ships in spawn. It may be a lot faster than it was but it is still a lot slower than anything else.

It now has fewer specials and against a single skilled hunter it probably has even less chance of survival. A skilled old lev player often had a port, rocket and repel giving them 3 chances (maybe 4 with an afterburn dodge) to thwart a single attacker. Often the attacker would be killed by another enemy while engaging the lev near base.

Once either version of the lev has used up its specials, killing them outside base is more like murder than combat. Necessary but no fun. (And very embarrassing when you get it wrong! )

However, the new levis were made to be very independent. A lot of the time I could see them die, then a few minutes later appear upon side tubes on their own with their speed.

A few minutes? Everything else could be back in seconds!

Not to mention, the EMPs are too strong against a spider with antiwarp. The EMP, even if it does not kill the spider, will drain it's energy down to 0 (while antiwarp is on) and then antiwarp turns off leaving antiwarp useless against a levi with the current settings.

Would the old lev bomb not have destroyed instead of EMPing the spider. The spider would have to rebuy anti and the lev would still be in position. If a lev ports away it is out of position and one special down.

The old levi is by far the more superior and fitting with our current settings, and they really should be limited in time/duration, not by changing the settings. That's just what I've noticed after playing so far.

The old lev created a massively overpowered combo when allowed to attach to a terrier. A synergy of speed, specials and massive area effect damage. It would still work with multiple levs and current settings but the rewards are less per lev and soloing more attractive.

I wouldn't mind the old lev if they remained solo basers but most levs rarely contested the flag. Yet LTs regularly appeared to blast the basing game into pointlessness, despite the attach bounty limitation. Their streaks, record, end of round honors and spacebux gained were undeserved when all they were doing was firing at the side of FR/Mid and running away whenever a hunter showed up. Minimal skill and teamwork required.

I know many LTs are better than that but they did not have to be (and just made the problem worse).

Many times I observed more players LTing than actually basing as a result.

You could try:

• Raising the bounty for attaching and strict limits on buying bounty by any method.
• Changing the bot algorithm so that map size is calculated on number of players fighting in base and then auto-warping greened LTs away from roof and sides whenever the map size is less than Large. (Smaller teams cannot spare basing players to guard against or hunt LTs)
• Changing end-of-round honors so that only non-freq-hopping players on a freq that has held flag for 10% of round time are honored.
• Perhaps you could then allow a limited number of greened levs to buy an upgraded bomb at very high cost for (hopefully) rare and limited old-style amusement.

Additionally, with the new settings, there has been a lot more incidents of them teamkilling with EMPs than the previous levis.

That is because there are a lot more levs actually basing in the FR. Woohoo!

Also because staff (and players) have never put much effort into enforcing the the 'no excessive teamkilling' rule, nor have devs shamed teamkilling players by making their teamkilling record more visible or made teamkilling penalties really hurt.

This applies to all bomb ships, not just levs.

I suggest making the bot track teamkilling rates and auto-warning/auto-short-term-shipbanning anyone who has a high rate of teamkilling. Sharks should get more generous limits as they have less control over their repped mines.

Repeat offenders should be auto-reported to staff who can use their judgement on whether someone is a newbie trying to learn a bomb ship (give them helpful advice) or a serial griefer deliberately damaging everyone else's game for their own twisted amusement for the nth time (give them a 6 month shipban).

[Kahlan]

Bring back the levi we had around 2000. That was a good year for levis.

[Spock!]

Old Levs is a no-no.

Its annoying as hell to get killed by a lev bomb you don't even see, or barely see on the corner of the screen. Gosh.

[Left_Eye]

Dear Viruk,

The new levi may be much weaker than other ships in spawn, but it is still more independent and powerful than the previous levi. The old levi had 4 repels and one portal, no other means of escape. It took at least one skilled helper, if not multiple ones, to help a levi out of spawn and to a safety. The new levis now are able to enter base and go up along side tubes on their own without any assistance. You don't call that a big difference? If so, you are being very liberal in definitions if saying so. Yes, it has fewer specials, but more powerful ones. A rocket and the levi bomb/bullets can do quite a bit of damage and get a few kills from what I have witnessed giving them a great head start on bounty.

Comparing them to other ships is not the point. Yes, everything can come back in seconds, but compared to the levis' role in the zone, that is their price. They were meant to take a while to gain bounty to actually do damage. If anything, the amount of bounty needed for attaching should be raised on the old levi, making it harder for a levterr to even exist. Either that, or permit them only on freq 0 and freq 1, so they must partake in a basing game in some fashion. Using other ships to compare to them is not fair unless you really degrade the levi from a strong army bomber to another fighter ship. That is not the role it held in TW.

With the old levi bomb, it was easy to dodge in flagroom as a spider with antiwarp. It was done often. Now, the antiwarp, as I have said in my previous post, becomes useless once it is hit anywhere near an EMP from either the opposing team or your team. It doesn't matter who, as long as you have antiwarp. So, from the current situation, the spider now has to buy antiwarp and watch out for levis from your team and the opposing team just to try to stop the opposing team. How much sense does that make? It makes buying antiwarp more damaging than without it.

Yes, the old levi created a powerful combo with a terr, but this one does as well. I've seen a levterr with 2+ levis shooting into base, and trust me from experience, using a spider with antiwarp in that situation was pointless. My energy drained down to 0 trying to stop them, then the other levi bomb came and killed me when I had antiwarp. These new levis aren't comparable. If anything, the old levis should be restricted either in play time or in raising the amount needed to attach to a terr, thereby making them work for their "fun." Additionally, having them on freq 0 or 1 would force them to participate in a basing game or get warned/banned for teamkilling excessively if they are not careful with their shots.

I have made multiple suggestions on making it harder for the old leviterrs to do their job. In fact, I have suggested putting random doors that turn on/off at random times in the leviterr holes from roof or sides, as it would force them to take the chance on firing and it not passing through to base. Additionally, raising the leviterr bounty would be ideal, along with restricting levi when pub gets over a certain amount in active players. For instance, when the base opens up to "large," to give levis the option of switching freqs and forcing them to play in base only not attached to a terr. Make them singled out.

Putting any more stress on our bot systems it not ideal, as the bot structure is very fragile as it is. Very simple modifications cause many other multiple functions to stop working as they should. It is better to simplify things than make a bot more complex. There is already a pure pub module that could be easily programmed to switch on during a time, or altered to permit levis on freq 0 and 1 without being attached to a terr (and if they are, force the levi to switch ships).

The new levi doesn't work, as I have said, with our settings on how TW was structured with its ships. Additionally, it did not do as much damage until TW combined all it's pubs into one giant pub, as the max was 35 (including speccers) back in the day. Overall, the smarter course would be to put back the old levi and restrict it in other ways than mess with the ship settings and cause other problems such as the ones displayed with antiwarp or teamkilling here.

Staffers do still ban for excessive teamkilling in any bombing ship (including levi).

Lots of love,

Lefty

[cookies]

Old lev would be fine if not for LTs. LTs and the BOOM crap you're talking about are not an important part of this game-- there is a small, but loud and outspoken cabal of shitty "veteran" players who can't fly anything else very well who cry every time lev is tinkered with. LTs have driven away literally every person I've ever tried to get into this game. They'll start getting confident with the controls, having a fun time basing, and then some lame-o staff or "veteran" player will freq-hop green cheat their levi at bottom safe and start lineshotting base into oblivion. *yawn*

I don't even know how LTs possibly have fun doing that. Must be nice to eat hot pockets with one hand while pressing tab with the other every few seconds and seeing yellow text on the screen.

And let's be honest, antiwarp sucks balls. Most people on a freq aren't apt enough to have antiwarp on macro-buy (i.e. freely available at the press of a button), let alone employ it intelligently and patiently, and those that do get screwed by crappy teammates either tking with bad shots, bad reps, etc. or just not attacking the levs and terrs when anti is up. Antiwarp more often than not just further unbalances basing games because some jackass on the already well-fortified winning freq in a 12v7 game will buy it and sit around. The people willing to do that outnumber the people willing to coordinate an LT hunt.

New lev is fine but splitting pub again and having the default being pure-pub would be ideal.