Changes to Lev effective Today

[Izor]

oh man..if left is doing a change to the rules soon the whole zone will be banned under rule 13

[Left_Eye]

I think the settings as they stand now are great. I'm also glad some of my suggestions were heard. However, tonight the weasel can only buy in safe; this is not good. The weasel as it stands is in great shape. But it needs to be able to replenish rockets and reps while out in the field. Having to go to safe to do that doesn't make a lot of sense - it moves to slow at the size it is now to cover those distances in any reasonable amount of time.

One of the major flaws that was encountered the last time the small X appeared in pub was that near the end of a basing game, when a team was losing, a whole team would switch to weasels to bombard the flagroom, then switch back after the delay took effect. Also, when a terr died that a weasel was attached to in flagroom, the weasel still lived (because of the radius size). Those were some major reasons why the weasel was made bigger in pub to begin with. The small X worked fine when we had many publics (so people were more spread out), but with the current pub, they became a large nuisance to basing. I even tested it myself today and was able to delay the flag game twice just by hopping in X and going through one of the many hole entrances to flagroom. Unless those flaws are fixed somehow, they're bound to reappear again soon, if they haven't done so already.

When people were suggesting changes to the cloaker back then, I recommended that making them larger would be a good compromise, while keeping the rest of their settings intact.

[Morh]

Remove the levi and the weasel and make two completely new ships. Only idiots plays those ships anyways, this way we can have a new real basing ship and a new fighter ship.

[2pac]

Left eye doesn't know shit about default tw settings bitch aint been here longer than 10 years.

[Tone]

Remove the levi and the weasel and make two completely new ships. Only idiots plays those ships anyways, this way we can have a new real basing ship and a new fighter ship.

No the Levi IS removed in a sense that it now has L2 bombs and other changes

as for the weasel, it has a replacement called NightWasp but they never replace it, not even having NightWasp Wednesdays or something

[Morh]

The NightWasp that they replaced the weasel with a few/many years ago in pub were too powerful. Besides it's a "remnant" ship graphic from subspace that they just added unto the weasel and then changed some settings.

[Ephemeral]

IMO we all are talking out of our asses.
With the multitude of changes who the hell can tell if any of this stuff is helping or hurting?
We have just come off a period where pub bucks went away. Obviously this caused all kinds of pub ‘strangeness’ with players using up their pub bucks. Through all of this we have map and ship changes. Every time a ship gets changed many players jump in it and check it out. This causes an unusual and disproportionate number of people playing the ship for several days. Every time a map changes players stray from their usual strategies and look for new advantages.

I’m not saying that changes are bad, I am saying that who the hell can make any kind of informed judgment about the value of a change when nothing is ever left to settle and see how it really will play out? IMO staff needs to group the map/ship/configuration changes and stop making continual running changes. The rest of us should hold off on input and give the changes 1-2 weeks to settle in before forming conclusions.
eph

[Bukkake Surprise]

"staff is mainly to stop excessive or intentional teamkilling"

They do a poor job of that. There are many repeat TKers who don't get banned. There have to be more people with banning ability and that ability has to be used more often.

[BooBiesYaY]

"staff is mainly to stop excessive or intentional teamkilling"

They do a poor job of that. There are many repeat TKers who don't get banned. There have to be more people with banning ability and that ability has to be used more often.

I agree but I think we've moved beyond the "warnings" phase in this area. There are about 5-6 troublemakers who will attach to an lt and relentlessly try to tk that LT. Or, sometimes, just go on an alias, do it then run.

Contempt (I think is his name) is probably the #1 person that does this.

These people that do this, justify it (I suppose) by saying lt's shouldn't exist, have tk'ed (accidentally or part of the design/game) me in the past so every single one is fair game, or have tk'ed me today as part of the game/accidentally and I can "legally" tk them. Even with the current lev downgrades, which I think are too weak, they still view levs in this manner, as 100% fair game to tk.

At any given time, theres 1-2 mods and a handful of ER's, ZH's and any other staff in pub, but are simply not policing this meaningfully. Theres 5-6 troublemakers who do this, and DO NOT deserve any warnings just a 2-3 week ban and/or ship lock for the same. They have been doing this for at least a year, and contempt should've been banned for this 10-20 times already.

You know, if it was 1 or 2 guys just screwing around and doing it I wouldn't care, but people like contempt do it EVERY SINGLE TIME they can, and run afterwards onto an alias, or back to their main. Reporting it is pointless because warning incorrigible people like this is just pointless.

[BooBiesYaY]

"staff is mainly to stop excessive or intentional teamkilling"

They do a poor job of that. There are many repeat TKers who don't get banned. There have to be more people with banning ability and that ability has to be used more often.

I'll just add one more thing. Maybe I see this more and know the troublemakers because they come after me while im lting, however, I really find it hard to believe not 1 staff or mod can watch this. Usually contempt or someone else will go jav and do it for 6-8 attempts until he finally tks in a walled area or so forth.

Staff may have more important stuff to deal with but someone should be really watching pub, particularly speccing lt's, because its super easy and happens often. And warnings serve no purpose for people like contempt. Its one thing to TK accidentally or part of normal play with the lev/lt because that's just how the games designed to try to kill more enemies than friendlies on a lt or solo lev. But its a whole different thing when someone like contempt will go from spider to jav, try to tk a lt 6-8 times, succeed, and then flee to an alias or just back to spider, while mods or staff are warning this guy whos done it 100 times over the past year at least to me personally and many others.

My suggestion, stop "Warning" the INTENTIONAL, deliberate, and incorrigible people like contempt who willfully violate TW rules.

I know levs and LT's can annoy, even with the downgraded stats, but theres a huge line between accidental/part of play TK's and someone like contempt who does it for sport, willfully, and relentlessly.

[jim the chin]

I'll just add one more thing. Maybe I see this more and know the troublemakers because they come after me while im lting, however, I really find it hard to believe not 1 staff or mod can watch this. Usually contempt or someone else will go jav and do it for 6-8 attempts until he finally tks in a walled area or so forth.

Staff may have more important stuff to deal with but someone should be really watching pub, particularly speccing lt's, because its super easy and happens often. And warnings serve no purpose for people like contempt. Its one thing to TK accidentally or part of normal play with the lev/lt because that's just how the games designed to try to kill more enemies than friendlies on a lt or solo lev. But its a whole different thing when someone like contempt will go from spider to jav, try to tk a lt 6-8 times, succeed, and then flee to an alias or just back to spider, while mods or staff are warning this guy whos done it 100 times over the past year at least to me personally and many others.

My suggestion, stop "Warning" the INTENTIONAL, deliberate, and incorrigible people like contempt who willfully violate TW rules.

I know levs and LT's can annoy, even with the downgraded stats, but theres a huge line between accidental/part of play TK's and someone like contempt who does it for sport, willfully, and relentlessly.

Could this problem be solved with a `teamkillers register': - http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthr...555#post858555

[BooBiesYaY]

Could this problem be solved with a `teamkillers register': - http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthr...555#post858555

its an interesting proposal. I don't think theres a lot of purposeful tkers running around to be honest. theres just around 5-6 bad seeds who do this. contempt is literally the POSTER CHILD for it. Every single time hes on and im lting he will promptly do it, switch to an alias, do it more and so forth. Eventually ill just say this is pointless and let him tk my lev in a walled area because im not gonna fly around base all day long with no walls its boring.

Yes ive reported him a few times but this guy has done it 100 times to me and hes just being warned. Theres 4-5 other ppl that do it too but they are moreso on aliases and its harder to pinpoint their main and they quickly leave afterwards.

Maybe its just part of the game and for the most part I look the other way and don't want to bother mods so I rarely report, but for some of these guys who are so willfull and relentless, warnings are not sufficient and have never been.

So long as mods/staff use unbiased discretion with this list for repeat offenders I think it could be a good thing. At the very least its good to get these problems out in the open so staff can read them and be aware it happens and try to be more proactive about it. I thought it was extremely important to emphasize in this thread I thought some staff were being completely incompetent in defining what an accidental tk/part of normal play tk was, in relation to what was truly intentional.

[Ephemeral]

Agreed, but note that the issue exists beyond the normal 'problem children'. Some players occasionally team-kill for ‘fun’, just the other day we had Stayon team-killing in Pub. A well respected vet who obviously knows better, obviously skilled enough to not team-kill; I guess he was bored or something. It was unfortunate since it killed that particular game.

The team-killing process is predictable and is easily manipulated/abused. Staff knows this, players know this. Another possible solution is for staff to be more attentive and more proactive. The delta between a new player and a experienced player is easy to discern even if a player is aliased. Being quicker on forcing ship changes would go a long way towards reducing team killing IMO. If the zone is not enjoyable enough stop a player from leaving because he is team killing and has been ship changed for a short period of time then all is lost anyway.
eph

[BooBiesYaY]

Agreed, but note that the issue exists beyond the normal 'problem children'. Some players occasionally team-kill for ‘fun’, just the other day we had Stayon team-killing in Pub. A well respected vet who obviously knows better, obviously skilled enough to not team-kill; I guess he was bored or something. It was unfortunate since it killed that particular game.

The team-killing process is predictable and is easily manipulated/abused. Staff knows this, players know this. Another possible solution is for staff to be more attentive and more proactive. The delta between a new player and a experienced player is easy to discern even if a player is aliased. Being quicker on forcing ship changes would go a long way towards reducing team killing IMO. If the zone is not enjoyable enough stop a player from leaving because he is team killing and has been ship changed for a short period of time then all is lost anyway.
eph

well yeah your absolutely right about the tk'ing for boredom, but I wasnt really focusing on that since its more random and not as relentless as some other cases I've witnessed. I too have seen some javs just tk for boredom or "sport" but that typically is part of the "1 or 2 bozos fooling around" that i mentioned in an earlier post that I typically ignore as part of the game.

but your right these people should know better and its also not right if it ruined your game etc.

i mainly tried to advocate the most extreme cases because those are just so damn willful in my opinion. i mean, when you have a guy like contempt tk levs and lts almost every 3 days willfully for a year, sticking his middle finger at mods, you have a problem with discipline and monitoring pub clearly. Id say, you have the guards checking the cells every 24 hours instead of every 30 minutes like most jails require lol.

but you know, its a simple fix. more proactive mods monitoring pub every hour or so, just randomly speccing lt's and people who jav or are in base, or those who attach to lt's. and BAN instantly any intentional tk for either a ship lock or a few days for them to think it over. maybe put their name in their memory or an actual list and if they do it again in a week, ban them for 2 weeks and so forth.

Clearly though, the solution is to monitor pub for the next few weeks and weed out those bad apples manually and literally give them hell and make it clear if they think they can discretely tk and ruin others play well they cant.

On the flip side, mods and/or staff must excercise extreme caution and use NO bias in identifying what truly is a intentional tk, and what is just a tk as part of playing or accidental. And im afraid some might abuse that as they have been doing in defining which is which. the upside is even when there was abuse in that definition, mods and/or staff have excercised restraint by giving many warnings.

[BooBiesYaY]

michelle was another one that was of that mentality that if a lev tk's once, even in the process of playing normally with the design of the lev and game, she could go around tking levs or lts at will illegally.

i remember about 3 months ago i was lt'ing with some friends and michelle and some other idiot start spamming pub chat about how i should be banned and michelle was whispering me "i already reported you dsb is watching you". and i told her that thats fine i know dsb (explaining to her he wouldnt ban me for the nonsense she claims) and knows i never ever intentionally tk as lt and if i ever do i told her i would hope dsb WOULD ban me. sometimes i make bad shots, sometimes i take 2-3 friendlies alongside 6 enemies, sometimes i even take blind shots often! but i never target friendlies on purpose without the intent of taking enemies with me. something these people cant get through their thick skulls that one is legal, the other is illegal. one is not done with bad motives, the other IS done with bad motives.

so this is how it went down. michelle and her friend start this whole innappropriate discussion in pub chat about how dsb should ban me and she lies about me trying to kill friendlies on purpose and so forth. dsb and another mod i forget who are just trying to say lets all get along which is great and was totally professional and right given the situation that day.

but then every chance michelle gets just like contempt, they tk willfully, purposely and call it justified. they are WRONG. they should not be given warnings. regardless of whether people believe me or not, michelle is a habitual liar with regard solely to tks (im not talking about anything else about her because i dont know her well) and exaggerates or misleads to further her own motives of being anti-lev or pro illegal tking revenge.

she obviously feels compelled and completely justified in lying or telling erroneous information about what happened because a lev dared tk her, in the process of normal gameplay. Some people have this mentality and its not only ridiculous, but its not legal to purposely tk people in revenge for playing a ship designed to have some friendly casualties obviously.

so many if mods/staff know stories like this they can better prepare for it and/or understand what goes down in relation to tking.