Changes to Lev effective Today

[Tone]

Attach at 15 is correct

weasel not drainign with both on is INCORRECT

you need to not listen to people who troll fly weasel telling you not to make it drain .. and do whats correct instead of what incorrect people want

They arent a democracy thats trying to tell you what they want -- trust me, they only want the cloaker to fly around and kill where no one can see, so theres no such thing as seeing how high a bounty you get get, or high streak you get, no such thing as playing win loss record

trust me they arent players they just X people as like the same psychology as chat room scrolling, emailing bombing, forum trolling. And to have a cloaker that you cant see or on radar either is virtually the same as if the game crashed all of the time, theres no difference because theres no play involved you cant see anything so you cant do things like play for bounty, just like you couldnt if the game crashed every 5 minutes. Same difference

[Tone]

In Other Words =

Cloakers arent telling you "put it back to no drain" because thats what they think is a good sense of ship balance. They are telling you that so they can game troll and ruin the game for shits & giggles -- but youre naive & believe its the former & not the latter; due to being naive.

[Zeebu]

full power levs, dont let them buy outside of safe/base. same as their ter if you can manage that. full strength lev, just dont let them or their ter buy outside of safe.

[BooBiesYaY]

full power levs, dont let them buy outside of safe/base. same as their ter if you can manage that. full strength lev, just dont let them or their ter buy outside of safe.

well thats what we had prior to the changes on saturday. i actually didnt even mind fis' settings too much because it had the factor of the stun aspect which halted recharge after being hit.

these current changes wont last, because they are just not viable for the levi ship. a powerful jav cannot fulfill the role the levi was designed for, to have an element of the game that could be powerful and change the aspect for a team playing both solo or on a terr. but here i am debating things again and i dont really care.

im just saying i know that this is gonna have to be changed again and i cant stand these changes. As a frequent lt'er (and I base terr just as much), i dont want to log in every damn 8 weeks to find a ship i play often has been tweaked again. This isnt leadership, and its not even trial and error. These changes have been tried unsucessfully with mootland farmer a few years ago and many other times. It killed or decreased lt's and levs. It made the game less interesting.

If you mods, in your infinite wisdom (chuckle) wish to downgrade the lev, do it permanently. Stop half assing it and changing it so much. I mean yestarday executiona logged on and was like WTF. Me and H8me were shaking our heads and saying this sucks.. and 5-10 other people i spoke to were also like 'is this for real, was this necessary'.

Pick a setting and stay with it. I would rather play a crap ship and know what to expect, than play 10 variations of a ship per year and not know what to expect week per week. At least then you can practice on that ships settings and get familiar with how to use it, rather than have to practice an entirely different settings so often.

Change is fine in moderation, but this is getting ridiculous. At what point to people that play the lev just say F it and uninstall Continuum for a year like I did myself in 09-10' after all the tweaking. Im not talking about me but people like my friends who come on and play and think they know what to expect and then log off 5 minutes later like yestarday...

[BooBiesYaY]

I'm talking about the way the current levi (the new changes) is in pub right this moment. I prefer the old levi, as there was less teamkilling going on (than either of the ones created by fiS or this current one in pub now). I never said the levi should be changed, but I'm simply saying the levi is not balanced currently, and really is causing a lot more teamkillings (to where people are actually being warned for it) as opposed to either of the two levis before it. I think the old levi was pretty balanced and only needs fine tuning so it's not as lethal as people say.

you know, on the topic of teamkilling, some staff needs to be retrained clearly. theres a big difference between intentional teamkilling and teamkilling as part of the game offensive as a team. clearly, if you kill 4 enemies and 1 friendly, and advance your team, thats NOT intentional teamkilling. The designers of TW make it so friendly bombs could kill your own team as to add a level of double jeopardy to the game. And im sick of stupid <ER>'s or others threatening to get mods because your teamkilling very little to progress your team.

on the other hand, when i lt my lev up to 350bty almost always some idiot goes on an alias as a jav and tries to tk relentlessly. and mods or <ER>'s watching sit there and act stupid.

clearly, this aspect needs full attention and the training sucks in this area.

and left, im not blaming you in the least, im saying crap like this has been regular occurence for the last 2 years so hopefully you can take this suggestion and inform staff the difference between intentional and accidental tk'ing (which is VERY EASY to figure out by just looking at how the lt is playing or the solo lev is playing).


As far as your statement about current levs, i agree of course but i hate the constant changes more than anything.

[MHz]

Give WBs antiwarp and reduce antiwarp recharge burden.

[Ephemeral]

Teamkilling has always been a huge issue in pub and certainly contributes to the loss of competitive play.

IMO the problem can be directly attributed ‘report teamkilling’ process and how poorly it works. Many players tolerate the first few team killings without mention. After the next few they get frustrated and usually say something to the offending player in team chat. After the 5^th or 6^th team killing they finally use the report to get a staffer to take a look. A staff might take a minute or two to start watching. The staffer usually then gives a verbal warning but by this time the frequency has already been impacted and flag room lost. Players spec or leave while the dumbass LT is still flying around ‘having fun’.

When I bring this up to staff they have replied with comments like ‘deal with it, that’s the way it works’. I encourage everyone to immediately report every single team killing as a form of civil disobedience; make staff answer these calls 24/7 until something gets changed. It is using the system as it is intended and will highlight the team killing issue in pub; unless of course they deem this too to be ‘disruptive’. LOL
eph

[BooBiesYaY]

Teamkilling has always been a huge issue in pub and certainly contributes to the loss of competitive play.

IMO the problem can be directly attributed ‘report teamkilling’ process and how poorly it works. Many players tolerate the first few team killings without mention. After the next few they get frustrated and usually say something to the offending player in team chat. After the 5^th or 6^th team killing they finally use the report to get a staffer to take a look. A staff might take a minute or two to start watching. The staffer usually then gives a verbal warning but by this time the frequency has already been impacted and flag room lost. Players spec or leave while the dumbass LT is still flying around ‘having fun’.

When I bring this up to staff they have replied with comments like ‘deal with it, that’s the way it works’. I encourage everyone to immediately report every single team killing as a form of civil disobedience; make staff answer these calls 24/7 until something gets changed. It is using the system as it is intended and will highlight the team killing issue in pub; unless of course they deem this too to be ‘disruptive’. LOL
eph

Well I feel your confused about a few things here. First of all, you CANNOT avoid team killing by playing an lev. Its impossible. most javs even tk albeit far less. But levs are DESIGNED to partially tk. The radius l3 is so high that if you dont tk at least 5 times from 20 to 150 bounty, your a very skilled lev.

You cannot design a ship that tk's by nature, unintentionally, as part of the design, then warn, flag, get upset about it.

Thats why theres a huge difference in Illegal "INTENTIONAL" Tk's, and legal accidental TK's. Now.. Is there a fine line, yes. If a Lev/LT is accidentally TK'ing recklessly by taking continously stupid shots then so be it just ask them to be more careful or warn them. But I hardly trust current staff (excluding some) to judge what is reckless and accident.

Current staff seems compelled to warn ANY tk'ing, which is absurd given the levs design is to TK partially (ie 4 enemies and 2 friendlys per shot lets say, or 4 and 1 friendly).

Staff needs to use discretion but with their brains. If a player says "ive been tked 5 times in 20 minutes" watch the lev or lt, but if they are doing careful shots that progress the team and LIMIT CASUALTIES, then the mod should be trained to respond to the reporting player "sorry but hes using a ship that has some blowback by design and from what i can see is being mostly cautious".

As a base terr or warbird, i get tk'ed constantly as part of the design, do i bitch and complain no because im not stupid and i understand the facts regarding the design of the lev and how tk's are unavoidable. And current staff needs re-education on these facts apparently given my own experience.

Additionally, i find it equally hilarious when If I get a lev up to 350+ and wazaa or some other goes on an alias to tk relentlessly, mods sit there watch it and are highly complacent. Or they dont respond at all to help calls (1/4 of the time id say). A week ago I reported Jamal spec hunting me with wazaa, nobody responds. I laugh at the biased response of mods, who are suppose to be so-called unbiased and use discretion.

Instead of intentional tk's and spec hunting that is so clear and obvious, they respond more to accidental tk's which are, lol, part of the ships design for god sakes. Blame Priitk then for designing a lev that kills players on the same team oh but you cant do that right..

Some staff are amazing and awesome. Others are ridiculously biased and stupid. I would hope the top staff would do better training in the common sense area but is that too much to ask for?

[Left_Eye]

you know, on the topic of teamkilling, some staff needs to be retrained clearly. theres a big difference between intentional teamkilling and teamkilling as part of the game offensive as a team. clearly, if you kill 4 enemies and 1 friendly, and advance your team, thats NOT intentional teamkilling. The designers of TW make it so friendly bombs could kill your own team as to add a level of double jeopardy to the game. And im sick of stupid <ER>'s or others threatening to get mods because your teamkilling very little to progress your team.

on the other hand, when i lt my lev up to 350bty almost always some idiot goes on an alias as a jav and tries to tk relentlessly. and mods or <ER>'s watching sit there and act stupid.

clearly, this aspect needs full attention and the training sucks in this area.

and left, im not blaming you in the least, im saying crap like this has been regular occurence for the last 2 years so hopefully you can take this suggestion and inform staff the difference between intentional and accidental tk'ing (which is VERY EASY to figure out by just looking at how the lt is playing or the solo lev is playing).


As far as your statement about current levs, i agree of course but i hate the constant changes more than anything.

Well, I'm in the process of adjusting and editing the rules for interpretation before all staff is retrained. I'll definitely keep this in mind in the area of my work, as we all know teamkills do happen, but staff is mainly to stop excessive or intentional teamkilling.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

[Ephemeral]

I am not confused boobies, perhaps you did not understand my post?

What I am suggesting has nothing to do with levs and the occasional team-kill. Obviously everything you said is well understood, of course there is an occasional team-kill. And I concur that the implementation of the team-killing rule is subjective and that this results in an uneven application depending on which staffer takes the call.
But that was my point; rather than trying to find some magical lev ship setting the real underlying issue is the team-killing reporting process. Frankly team-killing shouldn’t always have to be reported; like you said, anyone with half a brain can sit in pub and see the problem players. But the replies I have gotten from staff on the reporting system was to use it differently, that I should not wait so long to report.

It is my opinion that it often only takes 3-4 really bad shot decisions to kill a competitive game. So if you have 3-4 levs in the game that means each one only needs to do one stupid thing each. The frequency collapses, the game is killed, players go do something else.

Doing the math the other way. If you have 3-4 levs, each one makes 2 bad decisions, everyone waits until the 2^nd one before reporting, and then the staffer only warns each lev, you are looking at a minimum of 12 frequency killing opportunities.

I am reporting every team-kill until something changes, I encourage others to do the same.
eph

[Tone]

The Cloaker is corrected now -- where its small size + no stealth + if you change your repel key you can thrust fire. Thats the kind of cloaker than leaves some degree of skill left of someone else is on a streak, plus the kind of cloaker you would actually get into to play thust-fire or to play flag-savior

So thats all fixed now to what its supposed to be

[BooBiesYaY]

I am not confused boobies, perhaps you did not understand my post?

What I am suggesting has nothing to do with levs and the occasional team-kill. Obviously everything you said is well understood, of course there is an occasional team-kill. And I concur that the implementation of the team-killing rule is subjective and that this results in an uneven application depending on which staffer takes the call.
But that was my point; rather than trying to find some magical lev ship setting the real underlying issue is the team-killing reporting process. Frankly team-killing shouldn’t always have to be reported; like you said, anyone with half a brain can sit in pub and see the problem players. But the replies I have gotten from staff on the reporting system was to use it differently, that I should not wait so long to report.

It is my opinion that it often only takes 3-4 really bad shot decisions to kill a competitive game. So if you have 3-4 levs in the game that means each one only needs to do one stupid thing each. The frequency collapses, the game is killed, players go do something else.

Doing the math the other way. If you have 3-4 levs, each one makes 2 bad decisions, everyone waits until the 2^nd one before reporting, and then the staffer only warns each lev, you are looking at a minimum of 12 frequency killing opportunities.

I am reporting every team-kill until something changes, I encourage others to do the same.
eph

I thought I understood it. Generally I agree with a lot of what you said. But my opinion is that most tk'ing comes from levs so im addressing that specifically.

Most of the levs I see tk'ing arent intentional tk'ers or just taking stupid shots relentlessly. I rarely see that and I base terr quite a bit. So I was stating that those reporting tk's constantly were doing so under the guise of accidental tk's, or tk's in line with the design of the lev. They were reporting ANY tk, and claiming to staff that they were wronged because they died to a friendly lev, regardless of circumstance. And staff is stupid enough to entertain this in most cases. They state to me often, you cant TK 1 friendly even if you take 5 enemies with it. How can you not TK any friendy ships with a l3 bomb? Yet some mods or staff operate this way.

Thus, I believe that the problem lies within the interpretation by staff on just what is a illegal TK. As you state, lots of tk's can ruin a competitive game, but so long as levs have this power thats too bad, thats just the design. And unless those tk's are purposely reckless over and over, the reporting of them should be ignored by staff after watching for a few minutes to ascertain the truth.

I mean, eph, what you would call a "bad shot decision" is also subjective. If a lev has to kill 4 friendly ships to stop 4 enemy ships from touching flag, thats what id call a completely legal unintentional TK, whose purpose was to further the teams objective. Yet you have some staff who would warn you because you shot 4 friendlies to stop 4 enemies from grabbing flag at 5 seconds left.

I get tk'ed constantly but I know the difference between intentional/reckless and unintentional, and 90% of shots are just products of the lev's design and advancing the team's goal.

The problem me and you have is you are probably interpreting all TK's as problematic, or at least most of them. I am not. I dont care if a team member is tk'ed 10 times in 10 minutes, so long as all those tk's arent reckless and are for the good of the team, they are legal, they are not abusive. And this is not really subjective, its easy to see based on circumstances its shot (to save flag, stop an imminent team invading) or to kill more enemies than friendlies (like 4 to 1).

Reporting "every single tk" is why I assumed you were confused, even if thats just civil disobedience, i dont get why you feel that playing a ship that is designed to partially tk, should be restricted via mod intervention. The only way to stop that is to downgrade the ship to where it cannot tk through the design and normal gameplay. Even as l2 bombs, your gonna TK through normal gameplay. Try l1.5 maybe.

You seem to focus on the quantity of TK's, stating after 5 or 6 tk's people have enough and report it. I focus on the QUALITY of TK's. As a lev or LT i take extreme caution in preventing TK's but after a mere few you get these radical morons like wazaa or others who even spec hunt, attach as jav and try to TK the lt. Others do it without any provocation and just state lt's and levs shouldnt exist. Staff should not entertain these nutcases and punish legitimate shots in the game. And staff should be educated clearly that levs are designed to TK and its staff's job to see whether these shots are for the advancement of the team, overly reckless and so forth. And like I said before, based on current staff, I dont trust them to ascertain that unbiasedly.

[Spock!]

Wait, is the weasel back to being small? I can't check cause my other PC is in the shop.....


If so, cool beans. I never liked the tiny one that much, but its way better and less lame than the stealth weasel.

Personally, I loved the Fis lev. Fis deserves a Nobel prize for making that, a work of balanced perfection. So good that even I played it a bit, and I used to never play it.

I liked the Big weasel Fis made too, it was slightly underpowered and not that useful, but it was the most fun ship to fly in pub and with a couple slight improvements it would have been completely badass.

+1 spock point for fis.....

[Tone]

Heres what I would say to do if it is believed the cloaker needs a boost in power

I would say make it less energy to fire the L3 Blue Bullet. I dont know what it takes now but lets say for example it takes 700, make it take 500

So instead of giving it more of the other abilities back, make it fire with less energy.... that is IF it even needs a boost.

[Azov]

I think the settings as they stand now are great. I'm also glad some of my suggestions were heard. However, tonight the weasel can only buy in safe; this is not good. The weasel as it stands is in great shape. But it needs to be able to replenish rockets and reps while out in the field. Having to go to safe to do that doesn't make a lot of sense - it moves to slow at the size it is now to cover those distances in any reasonable amount of time.