Public Input for Elim

[Turban]

yep, the current rating formula is pretty much something stupid like ..

(opponent average rating)*kills/2)-(deaths) or something very similar to that. i remember it being simple and factoring average rating of kills very heavily.

[qan]

That's basically it, something pretty close. However, if you think about it, there's something really important missing from that formula... where is the player's previous rating?

You can go 0-10 in every game but 1 and be #1 on the ladder.

[up in ya !!]

Please respond to the Elim changes here.

[Twenty Four]

Could you add your formula to Javduel/wbduel too? People like to play 5 or 6 good games, then quit for the month to retain a 1500+ rating.

-24

[Exalt]

Could you add your formula to Javduel/wbduel too? People like to play 5 or 6 good games, then quit for the month to retain a 1500+ rating.

-24

Wait.. People care about wbduel ratings? lol?

[forwards]

Was there a public vote, or did a few higher up staffs take it upon themselves

Guess. Lol how many times have we asked this question on these forums, though?

[Exalt]

Here's my thought, which I said years ago before the two elim arenas were combined: Don't do it.

Of course, staff did do it, because almost all staff were basers/javs (and still are). Combining the two elims is a good thing for jav players, because it killed off WB elim completely. Players like Tiny disagree when Turban already pointed that out, but Tiny has never entered ship 1 in his life, so that just reinforces my point. Javs were the ones that complained enough to get the elims combined, and now that they have been, all the WBs quit. Regular elim before the split was almost always active. There was always a game going. After the arenas were combined (which staff did without realizing the consequences), regular wb elim never saw the light of day again. There might be one random wb vote every 100 jav games, and javs will simply outvote the wbs anyway. Wbs will leave and go play wbduel instead.

Do any of you older players on staff see a pattern there? Before the arenas were combined, nobody played jav elim. Everyone played .?go javs or javduel instead. Jav elim was practically non-existent. These days, nobody plays wb elim. It's practically non-existant. We don't have a .?go WB but everyone plays wbduel instead of javelim. At least back then though, javs had the option to play elim whenever they wanted. It was taken out of the warbird player's hands by combining them. I guess the javs like Tiny choose not to remember that the elims were combined because javs needed the help, not WBs.

The actions of a staff leadership that has always been almost 100% basing/jav players essentially took out what was once the most popular arena this game had outside of public. It's barely active now with javs running very small games every now and then. Elim is a sad joke of what it was when the arenas were split.

These days? WBs need the help from staff by splitting the arenas again. At the worst, javs will play in their arena at all times and wb elim will be dead. At best, WB elim will be active again. I don't see why the arenas haven't been split yet.

[Kim]

This debate has been going on since 10 years ago, but I really don't see how your argument is valid that combining elims will be an advantage to javs and not to wbs.
Players can still vote for what they want to play, and even though the bot seems to favor one or the other on certain days when the votes are tied, its still more or less a majority vote. If no one is voting warbirds, then why do you expect that wbs will be played in elim? When wb elim comes on, jav players will naturally spec. This has always been the case.
Seeing this issue from your point of view, it appears that you are trying to argue that there are more jav players than there are warbird players, even before they started leaving (as you say). I can see this being a problem if both parties are trying to vote their ship to play and since javs have numbers, technically it should always be javs in elim. However this is not the case. There are so many times during the day (even peak times) when elim games are not going on. At any time wb games could be started but they don't. Also, when there are a lot of players in elim, it seems like the only vote is for javs. I rarely see situations where wbs are consistently being beaten out by jav votes if the wb players actually wanted to play wb elim.
We could look into 2 games jav 1 game wb or implementing a rating system that looks at overall rank and gives those players an advantage versus 1 leaguers.

[Exalt]

This debate has been going on since 10 years ago, but I really don't see how your argument is valid that combining elims will be an advantage to javs and not to wbs.
Players can still vote for what they want to play, and even though the bot seems to favor one or the other on certain days when the votes are tied, its still more or less a majority vote. If no one is voting warbirds, then why do you expect that wbs will be played in elim? When wb elim comes on, jav players will naturally spec. This has always been the case.
Seeing this issue from your point of view, it appears that you are trying to argue that there are more jav players than there are warbird players, even before they started leaving (as you say). I can see this being a problem if both parties are trying to vote their ship to play and since javs have numbers, technically it should always be javs in elim. However this is not the case. There are so many times during the day (even peak times) when elim games are not going on. At any time wb games could be started but they don't. Also, when there are a lot of players in elim, it seems like the only vote is for javs. I rarely see situations where wbs are consistently being beaten out by jav votes if the wb players actually wanted to play wb elim.
We could look into 2 games jav 1 game wb or implementing a rating system that looks at overall rank and gives those players an advantage versus 1 leaguers.

Well if wbs dont want to play javs (for instance) and after 3 wb games, a jav elim is forced, everyone quits playing. The vise versa happens with all javs and 1 wb game. How you haven't seen that as an issue is beyond me. Any player that plays more than 1 elim game a month would be able to attest to that being an issue.

I don't see how splitting the arenas is such a burden on staff? I also don't see why javs are so against it? Are you worried Jav Elim won't be popular anymore like it was when they were split? If that's the case, you should just admit that. All javs say the same thing, while almost all warbird say the opposite. There's a legitimate reason for that.

[Kim]

When the arenas were split, both elim and baseelim were dead. The only thing that was running were the wbduels/javduels/.?go javs

[Shadowmere]

These statistics are from early January. End of Season 5 so to say.
From what I can read into them, if you really want to play warbird, you can. Same for jav.

It doesn't take much to get ranked, but there's a lot of players that are just too impatient to wait for a new game or "their" game to start.
What you can do, is just enable Elim alerts for yourself and you'll know when which game type starts.
However that'll also mean you won't be there trying to affect the voting yourself.

We can't please everyone, even with the idea from a player yesterday: Make 2 elim maps...
It'll all result in less competition, even if simultaneously more players could play.
At the end of the day it would end up being what we had before: both/all arenas dead, no one playing.
1 player entering in another, 1 in another, never getting 2 together and never a game starting...

--

[qan]

Quick note on changes to elim (repeat of what is in news.txt, for the most part):

The new formula is now in use. It went through a few growing pains (giving massive rating gains at one point) and may still undergo adjustment with time. But, the basics are in: the ladder rating (aka adjusted rating) is now based on the idea of confidence. Ladder = rating * confidence, where confidence is 20% + games played / 400, topping out at 100%. The idea is that the more rounds you play, the more confident the bot is that your stats are not a fluke. This eliminates the dominance of people who simply get enough kills and a good enough record to ladder in the top 10, then quit playing to hold their score. They'll have absolutely no chance, as confidence once you're able to ladder is around 25%, meaning your ladder rating will be at about 1/4 of what it was under the old system. It's still possible to do ridiculously good and ladder well right as you start being ranked... but it's significantly harder. About 4 times as hard, to be exact. It's like diamonds.

Continuing to play elim rewards you with the ability to go up the ladder, then, much more successfully.

You'll also find the bot now PMs with basic end round stats, giving some feedback on how you did, and showing how your rating changed based on the most recent match.

Probably still some bugs, though. It's a difficult bot to modify, a bit like MatchBot in that regard. So let me know if anything comes up.

Planned future changes: option to enter in late (mostly coded); practice area (research started, arena finished). Expect a new elim arena up soon, too, courtesy of Up in ya !!.

Speaking of MatchBot, a reworking of that ratings format is also still in the works. The details we have covered, mostly (still need bd formulas from claus though ... that's no easy thing, but if anyone can do it, he can). Implementation isn't too tough. But it will require testing, and could throw TWD into chaos a bit. Still, should be worth it, giving personal stats in TWD and making matches overall more meaningful.

[Jones]

that confidence thing sounds like a neat feature but we might have to see how it works in wbs as those elims are pretty rare compared to javelins

[Shadowmere]

that confidence thing sounds like a neat feature but we might have to see how it works in wbs as those elims are pretty rare compared to javelins

Works as well for everyone that plays.
The more you do, the better your rating will get. As long as you are consistent.

And, as before, to get laddered you need a total of 300 kills & deaths.

[Exalt]

Works as well for everyone that plays.
The more you do, the better your rating will get. As long as you are consistent.

And, as before, to get laddered you need a total of 300 kills & deaths.

This statement is ignoring the fact that Jones, among almost all the WBs in this forum, have brought up. There simply aren't very many wb games played compared to jav. Saying otherwise is just a lie, and claiming it is all okay and nothing is wrong is also false.

I honestly cannot understand how you can say this isn't an issue when an entire subsection of players say the exact same thing? Wb elim is not 'fine' and hasn't been for a long time. Ignoring it doesn't make the problem go away.