Conflict Of Interest??

[Zerzera]

Reasons to allow staff to compete in leagues:

• Staff is picked out of players of this game and don't get payed and should be able to get to have fun beside the duties.
• Staff that are recruited are found to be trustworthy by the people that run the zone and should be trusted by the community too.
• By doubt used commands can be checked, and so abuse would be punished
• In life there is alot of mixed intrests, if the rules are set there is no way to let it make a difference in something as leagues.
• Staff used to go inactive after matches and not go back on their staff-nicks

Reasons to disallow staff to compete in leagues:

• Staff is picked out of players with their own interests.
• When playing competative you might not think rational, and not think about consequenses
• As staffmember you could accidently have the wrong macroset loaded and use a command during a match
• During games staff can't take care of staffbusiness as help and cheatercalls
• It might feed conspiracy theories and spawn rumours.

I am not against people in staff playing in leagues, I trust the people in charge of leagues enough and they would be the only ones with the power to change outcomes outside the games themselves.
On the other hand I think it's not wise to have people play matches on their staffnicks.
Ofcourse the commands are logged, but that doesn't mean people can't abuse it, or accidently use them.
And since alot of people in TW don't have enough of confidence in staff (as seen in many rant threads) it only gives them the oppertunity to falsly claim that there is been abused and it's covered up by league ops and get people to believe it.

I don't see why staff needs to play under that nick in games. If they go inactive (afk) after a heavy game they can do that on their staff nick too. And it's quite logical that, if you just had alot of tension in a match, you might not feel up to host something.
And the help/cheater calls distract me during matches, while I won't be able to answer them anyway.
Talking trough blueout is very annoying and really setting a bad example. But I admit that if I would be able to talk trough blueout I might not always hold myself back. That is one of the main reasons why I kept signed up as Zerzera.

[Downdraft]

Originally posted by Cig Smoke
i think that it would all be good if staffers simply didnt play on their staff names. That would eliminate any sorta "abuse" or any kind of things surrounding that the staffer helped his squad in any way.

i find this to be a perfectly good solution.

[Jerome Scuggs]

Originally posted by Acidmouse
You must be trusted to be on staff so I see no problems in letting them play league games. If that trust is broken and they abuse league play for any reason then ?staff kick

afaik, *log only shows about 20 lines of commands. And, with "MODERATOR LOGGED IN" showing every few seconds probably, *abuse can happen.

Unless theres a way to *get the server log, but im not familiar with it.

then again, you can set the server.ini to ignore certain commands from being logged. perhaps the mod password also is ignored

[Fit of Rage]

Originally posted by Downdraft
i find this to be a perfectly good solution.

The only problem being that a moderator would be between a rock and a hard place- i.e. a moderator has no tag, thus they can't switch names.

[Mattey]

Just bringing this up, having all 3 twl ops in a single squad is a horrible horrible idea. Even with Cpt.Guano! leaving Spastic, you're left with 2 twl ops on a single squad and the other with ties to the same squad. A really bad idea.

[Xog]

Originally posted by Sphonk
As an smod, I can tell you that you are incorrect. Sorry.

For a list of commands and who can do them, please see http://www.shanky.com/server/commands.html

As a sysop i'd like to say, in the zone I work for, smods can use *log, and i've seen an smod in TW do it, too. Unless he/she logged in as sysop.

[Mayo Inc.]

Leagues should be open to all who play by the rules. The discussion is perfectly fine to have, but there shouldn't be any rules that force law abiding staffers not to play.

Ps Mattey is right, I know all the TWL Ops are good people, but the second there's an issue with spastic, lets just say there will be a few more forum topics to post in.

[ZeUs!!]

BAD IDEA!

[THE PUSHER]

Time for me to chime in.

First I'd like to thank Ephemeral for bringing this topic up in a formal and well-thought manner. It's always been a pleasure having your two cents handy in the deeper discussions surrounding this zone.

To save some time, below is a response I made in a thread regarding power abuse situations in league matches.

The reason I implemented the rule that all staffers must be on their staff name during TWL matches is really quite simple.

In the time between TWL seasons 4 and 5, Trench experienced a population boom. Increased number of players in a zone at any given time, increases the number of issues that may arise. Staffers were allowed to leave their staff name for TWL games, and were supposed to return once their game was completed. This created several problems, first and foremost was the issue of help and cheater call responses dropping to almost none during TWL games. Another issue was staffers going 'afk' after their match was completed and not returning to staff chat (I use the term 'afk' very loosely here, since most never were 'afk' just pretending to be so). Finally, there was the issue of staff not being available to host matches due to being conveniently 'afk' or claiming that they had a squad match at the time. If anyone remembers, Left_Eye, Acid, and some others hosted almost all of those TWL matches. Sometimes more than one at a time.

While considering this rule, we had many discussions on possible staff abuse during a TWL match. We created several rules and punishments for that as well. Every command that's issued by a staffer is logged, and can be easily retrieved if there was a question of abuse. As well as all TWBots were programmed to only receive commands from the scheduled host of a match. The only people who were able to override those commands were the TWL-Ops. We had absolutely no instances of staffer abuse during TWL matches last season under this rule. All instances that did occur (blueout violations were the only ones), were handled promptly and appropriately during season 6.

Enforcing the rule that staffers remain on their staff names during TWL matches, was and still is a great idea. Doing so ensures that issues and circumstances are being handled. Staffers are allowed though to leave staff chat during their squads TWL matches, so as to remove the oft distracting text of staff chat.

-PUSH

From a management perspective, it simply boils down to what is best for the zone overall. As Trench continues to average high population numbers, the demand for available staff will continue to increase. As a management team, it is imperative that we meet the needs of our guests to the best of our abilities. Once we falter from a strong standard of guest service (which I know still needs some work), we will begin to slowly lose all that this zone has worked for. Having those staff members available during high traffic hours (ie. TWL Matches, weekends, holidays) assures that we are still here to provide the best possible service we can, and that issues aren't being ignored simply because one has a base match in TWLB3.

Another issue we had to look at was, what exactly are the expectations for a staffer in Trench Wars? I think each and everyone of us would agree that it is wholly unfair to demand that a staff member completely remove themselves from the gaming experience in order to play hall monitor. Also, no one would assume that just because they are staff they have added incentive to be complacent towards the needs of the guest. The balancing act is very sensitive here because of the nature of the staff position. Staff is a voluntary position inside of our community, and unfortunately a position that is open to a lot of stress and often times abuse from the community at large (those who bring problems upon themselves excepted). It was important for us as SMODS, to try and find the perfect balance between commitment to a position in staff and the community, as well as continuing enjoyment of the game itself.

Granted, there are no real solid solutions for each individual, but we felt it was best for all that we enforce staffers to remain on their names during official matches and register their names with their official squad rosters. Staffers were allowed to leave staff chat during their matches, so as to remove the distraction of staff chat. If a staffer had BanG access, they could simply turn the notification function off, thus negating any banned user messages that pop up. In order to minimize lag problems and distractions via zone messaging, we disallowed all TWD and hosted events during TWL game time. This removed the green advertisement messages staff members use to call zone messages. The only messages that could not be removed for any staffer, were help and cheater calls. Yet both of them are minor distractions, and can be easily ignored during a league game or other event. This solved the problems of available staff during league gaming/high traffic times, and of the distractions to an on duty staff member.

The issue of staff abuse during TWL matches was handled quite easily, and made it near impossible for a staffer to abuse their powers during a game in progress. Once the TWL Bots were stabilized, 2dragons programmed them so that once a scheduled host takes command of the TWL Bot for the game, only that host was allowed to make any changes that would affect game play. As a fail-safe, he allowed only the TWL-Ops with SMOD capabilities to override the host function in case of any emergency situation. Of course, this would not remove an ER+ from being able to use their normal arena commands and functions. If there was ever any instance or inkling that a staffer had abused their powers in any TWL match, the proof was very easy to obtain. The punishments for committing the crime of abuse were two-fold, they punished the staffer directly and the staffers squad. No exceptions were to be made in any instance, and thankfully we had none during our season. In fact, I can't stress that point enough. We had zero instances of staffer command abuse during any TWL match.

I agree that there are many pros and cons to this issue. On one hand, I would have liked to have been all for my staffers ability to detach themselves from their duties and have all the fun they want. On the other hand, I had a duty to provide a service to our community and make sure their needs were being met on a daily basis. I also could not, and if I still was Dean of Staff and a TWL-Op, would not ever assume that a staff member should shrug off their duties for any reason other than an extended or short term break. As a voluntary staff member in this zone, one has to understand that with it comes commitment and one's own balancing act. That person has to balance on their own, the commitment to the game as a player and as a staffer.

I hope this helps give a little insight.

-PUSH

[Xog]

Now can I have chapter 15-30?

[bug]

??

03.12.04
? how do you get the wax out of satin sheets from that lit candle ?

[Cig Smoke]

mods+ can still switch names, but it is a problem as for the TWL op thing ur rite it isnt very "attractive" to see 3 guys strung w/ the same squad running a league, but Epi is there to i guess u can say even things out.

[Cylor]

Nice post Push, I think I agree with everything you said. I think it simply comes down to the fact that people play this game to have fun and when people volunteer their time to help others have fun, they should certainly not be handicapped by making them leave their squads. This will only result in people leaving staff.

[Ephemeral]

Although many points have been stated supporting the decision regarding this conflict of interest, I am not convinced that it provides enough evidence to call the decision correct.

In answer to the point regarding “volunteer their time to help others have fun, they should certainly not be handicapped by making them leave their squads”, there is ‘another side to this coin'. There are people who are currently NOT volunteering due to this conflict of interest, no one knows how many people feel this way. I am also not sure what is considered the proper staff/TW population ratio, and if this is hard to maintain given the current pool of candidates.

My opinion is that the likely best candidates for staff are those people who have large amounts of playing time and are quite interested in contributing in ways that are beyond simply participation in a squad or league. Also, disallowing someone from being a squad member or participating in a particular season does not mean that the person can’t participate in many, many other ways to intrinsically enjoy the game/community. First, stepping off a squad roster doesn’t mean that a person stops enjoying the camaraderie of the players in thier squad or the community at large. Additionally, a staffer could still fully enjoy public play at any time, gleaning the full enjoyment of the game. The staffer could also occasionally ask for a leave of absence from staff during a particular league season although this would have to be managed so that the staff numbers don’t sharply decrease during league play. Another important factor is that a staffer should be ‘bonding’ with the rest of the staff, not his/her squad members. This is no different than having to sit at lunch with different people when you get promoted into management position. This is no different than why many military organizations disallow relationships outside of one’s own rank.

It is also my opinion that dealing with the endless hassles that this conflict of interest causes comes at a very large cost. This includes the amount of energy/time that has been expended on this issue over the last several years. How much of the time and effort that has been spent on staff member ‘turn-over’ (staff leaving/hiring/firing that can be directly attributed to this conflict of interest issue)? What percentage of staff ‘turn-over’ is related to this issue? (My guess is that it a substantial amount, probably greater than 50%). There is also a QA (quality assurance) cost related to all of this, as well as a TW ‘goodwill’ or ‘image’ cost (in a marketing way).

But, the above is just my opinion and I could be wrong. One of the best values to this post is that it can serve as a link to all future ‘abuse’ discussions/hassles/bitching. The next time anyone bitches about staff ‘abuse’, the next time someone bitches about staff turn-over rate, the next time someone bitches about the quality of the staff, the next time someone leaves TW and never comes back, we can simply link this thread and state “here are the reasons we do things this way”.

[Sphonk]

Originally posted by Xog
As a sysop i'd like to say, in the zone I work for, smods can use *log, and i've seen an smod in TW do it, too. Unless he/she logged in as sysop.

TW smods CANNOT do it. Trust me. Want me to make sure? Let me log in as smod. Nope, still can't do it.