Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

MMR point system is rigged against you

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • MMR point system is rigged against you

    Going to keep this brief but I think the point system is way too aggressive now compared to when I played it when it debuted. All the cool things I liked about MMR seemed to have been axed. Bonuses for KO's. Bonuses for going positive. ect. It only seems to account for 1 thing now. Wins.

    I went 11-10 tonight and our team lost. I ko'd a couple people, had most kills on my team. I lost 74 points.
    Right after, I went 14-7. KO'd 3 people, got MVP and we won. I gained 75 points.
    Right after that, went 9-9. KO'd 3 people and we won. I gained 75 points

    Anyone else see a problem with this? It used to be dynamic. Now it's just, at its boiled down essence, based on your team winning or not. Which hey, that's cool I guess? But if you end up in the dirty, 2nd arena with well.. to be polite, people who either don't take that ship serious or don't play in it actively, good luck counting on getting wins on a consistent basis to get out of there.

    Playing with more experienced teammates has a huge advantage because if you can pop off and give them a chance to breathe, they will typically carry their own weight or some of it to get a win. Or on the other hand, if a guy like Iron or RacKa is going nuts, I can typically hold my own or some of it so they can get us the W. I don't even need to worry about doing well and I'll get the full reward. Problem is, you pop off with a bunch of players who have no idea why they are there in the first place, it's a very big gamble and so far I've not seen it go well. And after it all, if you lose despite being the best on your team and putting in effort, tough luck, you get nothing. In fact, you get punished.

    System seems awfully rigged to keep you from climbing up once you drop far enough down. So much of individual skill has been removed and is unaccounted for now. Again, used to be more dynamic. Used to feel like my performances meant something and if a guy on my team trolled our team, I'd still walk away with something. That's the other thing too. This new system basically allows trolls complete freedom to screw people over without consequence. qan What the heck happened and why?

    PS: May as well mention, not to name names but there's a few players I know who are rated low or right near the cut-off that are good in their ship but for whatever reason tumbled down the leaderboard that won't even play MMR if it's 2 arena's..

    That should tell you something as to the state of the current MMR point system when people would rather sit in spec doing nothing, hoping for less people to be playing the game so they have a better chance at playing with the few more experienced players. With the old system, you didn't have that issue. You doing well was solely something you controlled. Now it's a crapshoot, left up to 4 other strangers which again, if they are experienced, is a big advantage over 4 that aren't End of the day, your performance doesn't mean anything.

    Link to my recent games Trench Wars Divisions - The Free Online Multiplayer SpaceShip Game
    Last edited by Grasps; 10-17-2023, 12:55 AM. Reason: Added link for verification purposes

  • #2
    I agree it's brutal. I just lost about 500 rating in a week because inactive/misrated/default-3000 people started practicing for twdt which messes up the teams until they play enough games for their rating to settle, then I'll have to play a bunch of games to get mine to settle again. Very disruptive.

    I've been in jd4 before and managed to work my way out of it, I agree it's mainly luck of the draw and not your performance. There are players who lose every game and I had hoped the website providing transparency all the way down to the bottom of the ladder would result in them getting banned. I never play jd4 now.

    I'm missing your point about "the old system", I think mmr has always been this way. The same thing happened to me when mmr first launched, ppl weren't rated properly and I lost 1k rating in the first couple of weeks with nothing I could do about it. (how I ended up stuck in jd4 hell)

    There seems to be a k-factor - because my wins/losses are about 40 points, I've never seen it be 75 points. So it seems like the game intends for these quicker initial rating adjustments to get your rating settled faster - however that system doesn't work if the outcome is rarely determined by your performance.

    At the end of the day any elo system will make you lose half the time, if it's working properly your rating won't change much even if it's based on individual skill instead of wins. It'll always feel bad if you're the sort of gamer who likes to win or hates to lose. Just look at league of legends, elo game, and they're all toxic and depressed. To defend mmr slightly, it does broadly seem to be filtering the better players to the top and the worst players to the bottom, despite the obvious problems already mentioned.
    Last edited by Rab; 10-17-2023, 07:01 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      As Rab said, pretty sure it's been the same system since the start. I do agree that in an ideal world there would be weighting to individual performance, but then you run the risk of certain bad players running around and trying to rec at the detriment to their team.

      As far as playing with experienced teammates, the idea is that both teams have similar experience. If one team has a 5k player, generally the other team will have a 5k player as well so the less experienced players should be balanced out as well.

      Overall, if you look at MMR ratings, I think they're pretty accurate in terms of skill level. At this point, after more than a year, there aren't a lot of 'misrated' players breaking the game (other than aliasers/vets who randomly login).

      Comment


      • #4
        As Rab stated, at some point, no matter how low or high your ratings are, you are more or less going to start winning and losing the same amount of games. For higher rated players, this will start feeling like a burden as you get to your 5000 rating, but then the wins are not coming as easily anymore. Often you get placed together with 3-4 randos, while other team (incase there is no other high-ranked player playing) gets 5 mid-tier players, who quickly eliminate the newbies and then the superstar is alone. This can really only be fixed by having more players playing, so low-star players end up in jd4. Probably one of the reasons why there was clear drop in mmr activity during summer and early autumn, you can take a certain amount of games playing with sauce, stinging etc.
        I dont think its a good idea giving extra points for KOs, mvps or other individual achievements (there should be some nice public dash with those though and maybe some twdt style medal system). Is it really worth that much getitng that KO on sauce when get gets eliminated by 5th minute?
        But i do think that the rating change that will take place after win should correlate to how high level game just happened. So if average mmr per freq is around 3000, that 40 point change is okey, but if there is a really high level game with average mmr of 3500 lets say, winning that should mean more.
        In essence, point of MMR still should be to offer sort of automated way to get balanced games going in jav/wb and hopefully in base as well, based on my experience the lopsided games usually happen when bot has to balance really high-rated player, so that the player ends up with bunch of 2000 rating players, while other freq skill-level is much more equal all over the board.

        Comment


        • #5
          I went from about 2500 to around 3600-3900 stable MMR rating. I was stuck at 2900-3200 for quite a while (jd4 hell) and was venting my frustrations with the MMR system on a certain vet chat. Then I got pm and I was told to watch a certain very high level recording from a while back and compare how I approach the game, to the most influential ones in it. It was rly back and forth and the pov made me see that I wasn't effective in a lot of aspects that are easy to correct. I made a fundamental change and it literally led me straight to 3600-3900'ish and been there since. Should probably watch that again cause now i'm stuck again.

          EDIT: OKAY FINE, certain someone is gonna think he's my idol but heres the vid: https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
          TWDTJ Champion Fall Season 2022 (6.5 *)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sarger View Post
            I went from about 2500 to around 3600-3900 stable MMR rating. I was stuck at 2900-3200 for quite a while (jd4 hell) and was venting my frustrations with the MMR system on a certain vet chat. Then I got pm and I was told to watch a certain very high level recording from a while back and compare how I approach the game, to the most influential ones in it. It was rly back and forth and the pov made me see that I wasn't effective in a lot of aspects that are easy to correct. I made a fundamental change and it literally led me straight to 3600-3900'ish and been there since. Should probably watch that again cause now i'm stuck again.

            EDIT: OKAY FINE, certain someone is gonna think he's my idol but heres the vid: https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
            BAN THIS MAN FOR EXPOSING THE SECRET SAUCE
            zidane> big play
            Omega Red> dwop sick
            mr mime> its called an orca smash u uncultured fk
            WillBy> ^^

            1:Chief Utsav> LOL
            1:Rule> we dont do that here.

            cripple> can u get pregnant if u cum in gf's ass

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sarger View Post
              I went from about 2500 to around 3600-3900 stable MMR rating. I was stuck at 2900-3200 for quite a while (jd4 hell) and was venting my frustrations with the MMR system on a certain vet chat. Then I got pm and I was told to watch a certain very high level recording from a while back and compare how I approach the game, to the most influential ones in it. It was rly back and forth and the pov made me see that I wasn't effective in a lot of aspects that are easy to correct. I made a fundamental change and it literally led me straight to 3600-3900'ish and been there since. Should probably watch that again cause now i'm stuck again.

              EDIT: OKAY FINE, certain someone is gonna think he's my idol but heres the vid: https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
              Oh wow, that's one of the greatest videos of all timefuckingfuckfuck

              Comment

              Working...
              X