Integrate EGBDL (5v5 EG baseduel) and eliteduel (5v5 EG warbird duel) into TWD

[Pressure]

As the title says, I think integrating EGBDL (5v5 EG baseduel) and eliteduel (5v5 EG warbird duel) into TWD will be great for the zone. Bring these EG leagues to TWD, make a post on their forums, and give them a place to play their leagues. Let TWD squads play each other in EG leagues. EG players who haven't been playing since their zone is inactive will like TW leagues too. It's a win win. What are people's thoughts on giving 5v5 EG baseduel and 5v5 EG warbird duel a trial run in TWD?

[Omega Red]

Im all for it, both are fun

[ag$]

All for it as well..
Eg BD is one of the most fun types of BD

Although I wonder if 4v4 ete would be better .. 5s seems like havoc
duno though I've never done a 5v5 ete

[qan]

Is it able to be played in EG currently, as in you can get games going fairly easily?

[LeeRomeno]

Is it able to be played in EG currently, as in you can get games going fairly easily?

As far as I know, EG is dead, FC missing for 6 months or so and nothing is going on.

[Pressure]

Is it able to be played in EG currently, as in you can get games going fairly easily?

I think EG has been dead, but before it died EG baseduel games would run 24/7

[qan]

Perhaps we can ask rhetorically of EG's leadership if they would like to oppose something like this moving forward. As far as I understand it, they have been the only people who've ever actually opposed something like this. I haven't heard any opposition from a single EG player, but I'm also not reliable in terms of people surveyed. That's just anecdotal. Still, it does give a certain impression.


I know there are a lot of EGers now in TW who miss being able to have these sorts of games running, and plenty of TWers who'd like to have a chance to play as well. BD of the EG/Deva style is really engaging, I think everyone knows. A bit exhausting over time, but really engaging.


One problem with integrating straight into TWD would be how we display match results. All of those TWD match pages were bespoke to the subleague, and we don't have a seriously active webdev anymore -- especially not people willing to write in accordance with the shoddy design principles of 15 years ago. The other option is a rewrite, and let's be honest, while many have proposed it, it's very unlikely that anyone will actually do it. It's just too much work for too little payoff. It's like those bank systems written in COBOL, but without the bank.

So the compromise there would be some kind of hack job that probably uses DD/JD match output code, maybe with very small tweaks. If that's acceptable I don't see huge roadblocks from a dev perspective.

[Pressure]

Perhaps we can ask rhetorically of EG's leadership if they would like to oppose something like this moving forward. As far as I understand it, they have been the only people who've ever actually opposed something like this. I haven't heard any opposition from a single EG player, but I'm also not reliable in terms of people surveyed. That's just anecdotal. Still, it does give a certain impression.


I know there are a lot of EGers now in TW who miss being able to have these sorts of games running, and plenty of TWers who'd like to have a chance to play as well. BD of the EG/Deva style is really engaging, I think everyone knows. A bit exhausting over time, but really engaging.


One problem with integrating straight into TWD would be how we display match results. All of those TWD match pages were bespoke to the subleague, and we don't have a seriously active webdev anymore -- especially not people willing to write in accordance with the shoddy design principles of 15 years ago. The other option is a rewrite, and let's be honest, while many have proposed it, it's very unlikely that anyone will actually do it. It's just too much work for too little payoff. It's like those bank systems written in COBOL, but without the bank.

So the compromise there would be some kind of hack job that probably uses DD/JD match output code, maybe with very small tweaks. If that's acceptable I don't see huge roadblocks from a dev perspective.

Thanks for being here to provide upper level input, qan. I understand there are cross-zone politics that I'm not privy to, but given that we've already seen pretty big interest in elitete and other EG maps being brought to TW, do we really need to ask someone like Fc for permission? No one respects his leadership decisions and a large cohort of their players believe he is the reason that the zone died. I think the majority of leftover players play TW, and I'm certain there are ex-players who visit their forums that would jump at the opportunity to play again.

I'm not sure how the bot thing would work, but I do feel that other than final score of the matches, we don't need extensive EG stats to start off. Kills, deaths, and flag touches, would be probably sufficient (though others like MHz should weigh in).

We're finally starting to see the long-awaited, inevitable blending and overlapping of zones and I think if we work to bring EG gamestyles to TW now, we can aim for a possible "combined TW + EG Draft Tournament" after the upcoming TWDT wherein captains select both TW and EG players to play competitive style games from both zones. This would be a great bridge to the next TWL, both because it would be a "new" league that would bring a spark of interest to our current league formats, but also because new EG players would be exposed to TW competitive style gameplay and would potentially want to play TWL.

Just a few thoughts, but I do think this is the next step in the evolution of SS/TW.

[Unlimited]

We tried to revive eg for a while now, but unfortunately staff is no longer active. Even had a discussion with raerae, eg's main upper staff and she admitted to being done with SS in general, and FC has gone MIA. Rae also said to me she was happy that TW now has EG events and arenas, but just doesn't care to help with anything (help with settings, etc.)

Twers love the eg arenas, egers love to enjoy it once again! I don't really think it should be in TWD, however.. having our own arena would be enough. Maybe just have elo ratings and get rewarded Pub bux or something would be cool. A tournament of TW/EG in the future like Pressure said is also a very good idea.

[qan]

We tried to revive eg for a while now, but unfortunately staff is no longer active. Even had a discussion with raerae, eg's main upper staff and she admitted to being done with SS in general, and FC has gone MIA. Rae also said to me she was happy that TW now has EG events and arenas, but just doesn't care to help with anything (help with settings, etc.)

That's very good news, if RaeRae not just accepts it but is happy about it. That's unfortunate about the settings, though. It'd be a simple thing to send over some arena settings. We have some in ?go ex that are bonafide, apparently, if maybe old. ?go elitete are a reasonable copy right now, but are something like our ?go hockey settings vs Hockey Zone. (That's another partnership we've tried to sponsor, but are lacking someone on the TW side who wants to facilitate. They've given us their settings and we can use them if we run hockey games and then get folks over to HZ, which has one of the most sophisticated and impressive systems in all of SS.)

Is anyone able to find a way to get EG settings of a few key arenas? Also worthwhile to check how well ?go ex matches. Note that the map is standard TW, so ignore that part.

Twers love the eg arenas, egers love to enjoy it once again! I don't really think it should be in TWD, however.. having our own arena would be enough. Maybe just have elo ratings and get rewarded Pub bux or something would be cool. A tournament of TW/EG in the future like Pressure said is also a very good idea.

An easier implementation would be something like using the wbduel/javduel/base bot, if it's not in TWD. It's possible Elo ratings could be implemented there, which actually aren't that complicated if done strictly on a W/L basis (as standard Elo is done, which was designed for 1v1 chess -- but it does work for teams with adaptation). Simply have a separate Elo rating for each gametype, and then arrange teams based on that rating. We already have a solid algorithm for matchmaking based on rating, and the more games that are played, the closer those ratings would become to balanced. People do get hung up on ratings not improving, but that's not the real point ... The point is having a way to construct even matches, basically. Hidden Elo might even be the way to go there. This is how most games run their Casual matchmaking. There's a rating but it's hidden, and you're not stressing about winning or losing, but just enjoy the game.

[Turban]

I would love to play baseduel in a competitive setting. It's arguably the most fun game mode in EG.

[Omega Red]

If it is too complex for TWD why not run ETE or BD in TWDT?

[Pressure]

Having a baseduel arena with the EG bot settings and old EG bot, but in TW instead, would be great. Still think we should have baseduel (and eliteduel) as a TWD league though. At some point, squads should at least have the option to play EG baseduel games against each other, even if the stats aren't recorded on the TWD site.

Also, in EG the teams would form by players randomly organizing on freqs with eachother/friends. I think implementing captains and a having a mini draft similar to TW's practice arenas (base, wbduel, javduel) would be best and would make for the best games. How long would it take to set something like this up?

[afghan]

qan Could you rename twsd and twfd to egbdl and egete and put the setting in there? Those 2 are basically never used. I’m not sure if that fits the description you’re saying as why the coding is challenging or if the challenge would still be there for that. You are correct that all the players want eg in tw but only the people that don’t play but have the power don’t want it aka fc.

[Vehicle]

I would love to play baseduel in a competitive setting. It's arguably the most fun game mode in EG.

Agreed. Would love to see EG baseduel become a thing. It'll be sad when it kills ?go twbd.