Should we raise resolution limits in TWDD/TWJD?

[death row]

A lot do, but the majority still don't.



Why should this zone try to be more like other zones which aren't nearly as popular?



I think the opposite will happen, if people lose simply because their opponents have bigger resolutions, or even if they are winning because of this, it cheapens the competitive aspect of the game and people who play this game because they enjoy the competition will lose interest. I mean if it's only TWD and not TWL it doesn't matter so much, but if you're not doing it in TWL then what's the point of doing it in TWD? I don't see new players flocking to other zones without a resolution limit, so I find it extremely doubtful it's going to have that effect here.

Purchasing a LCD monitor these days that can support high resolution is actually very affordable. In fact, it's amazing. I still have the old CRT monitor, that big bulky one. But those big CRT monitors use to be pretty expensive and back then subspace use to be in that era, so not a lot of people had the money to buy those real big monitors. But those times have changed and I think we should too, at least in my opinion.

[kthx]

Right death row, so like I said before lets also change the lag limits to

100ms
.5 s2c
.5 c2s
any -packetloss specced
.3 weapons packetloss
and no more than a 5point tinfo spike per line.

Sure lots of people won't be able to play anymore but hey times have changed and so should we, if people can't play with a reasonable lag limit for 2010 they just shouldn't play the game anymore because it isn't fair to those of us who have good connections.

[death row]

Right death row, so like I said before lets also change the lag limits to

100ms
.5 s2c
.5 c2s
any -packetloss specced
.3 weapons packetloss
and no more than a 5point tinfo spike per line.

Sure lots of people won't be able to play anymore but hey times have changed and so should we, if people can't play with a reasonable lag limit for 2010 they just shouldn't play the game anymore because it isn't fair to those of us who have good connections.

Crap, then that would kick me out with the criteria above. lol B)

PING Current:120 ms Average:120 ms Low:100 ms High:140 ms S2C: 0.2% C2S: 0.0%

[Turban]

any -packetloss specced

sorry to ruin your image on what lag is, but negative packet loss has no affect on the game. it does not give an advantage nor disadvantage though it can overload weaker connections (52k/26k -- but not like anyone uses those anymore). basically it just means that some packets are being sent multiple times, hence you are not losing any packets => no packet loss => no lag.

i do agree that limits should be lowered; but to something like ~300ms ping, 1.0 S2C/C2S packet loss, 0.5 (or lower) S2C weapon packet loss 15-20 Spike Med and

we should move the server to iceland.. you heard me! europeans would get roughly 50 to 90 ms latency, and americans would get 50 to 120ms latency. sounds like an even play field to me! :fear:

though why would we do that... another option would be two servers for one zone (one in .. lets say, netherlands -- and the other in washington). apparently that can be done, would not have separate zones and it would lower everyones lag. :fear:

[curse]

I like turban's posts the best.

[kthx]

Turban, that isn't the point. If you are expecting everyone in tw to be able to play on a 1900+ resolution than you surely assume that everyone in TW can play with less than 100ms lag and relatively little packetloss. Upgrading one section of tw based on technology should also upgrade another section.

[Turban]

Turban, that isn't the point. If you are expecting everyone in tw to be able to play on a 1900+ resolution than you surely assume that everyone in TW can play with less than 100ms lag and relatively little packetloss. Upgrading one section of tw based on technology should also upgrade another section.

:fear:

first of all wark, no one is expecting everyone to start playing on a 1920x1080/1200 (or 1680x1050) resolution now that the resolution limits got raised in twd. i for one will continue to use 1280x968 windowed (except on rare occasions) as i'm the most comfortable on that resolution. i also fail to see why people make such a big deal about this whole resolution thing. higher resolution does not give such a huge advantage as you guys (wark, jones, burnt) claim it does against those that use a lower resolution, such as 1280x1024 or 1440x900. especially in leagues such as twlj and twlb a higher resolution could be considered a disadvantage rather than an advantage. on the bottom line, if you are better than your opponent then you will win, that's all there is to it. and to be frank, you aren't that good.

on a serious note i would love to have a lower latency again, but i doubt that will happen any time soon (or rather will never). it would be great to have dual servers for one zone (one located in the US and another one located somewhere in Europe, such as France) or moving the server to Iceland. if neither one of these happen, then there's no way for euros to get a low latency. even if we had the fastest connection on earth. that's a cold hard fact, no matter how much the technology improves in the next couple of years the latency will remain the same for us -- though some poor people might get rid of their packet loss issues.

does anyone know how much it would cost to have another server (a good one) in europe for this zone? i'm rather curious -- though i assume it's probably around $200 a month. :fear:

[Burnt]

having had adequate time to actually try the new res's.

IMO the advantage is small at best in TWDD. With the largest allowed cross sectional res (1920) you can see +240 pixels per side compared to 1440x1024. I.e you have a fraction of a second more time to see incoming strays/react, which is a very small advantage.
Also, you can keep about 200 pixels more distance in a "long range" fight, which is still not a massive difference.

Well most people use 1280, so it's really 50% more than that. In TWL u can't use 1440x1024, only 1280x1024 or 1440x900, 1440x1024 is only allowed in TWD due to the limitations of the arena settings.

Disadvantages compared to 1280x1024 or 1440x1024 is the "size" of your real estate if you will, everything is smaller, and close range kills are a bitch and a half compared to 1280x1024 especially.

First of all, If I'm on a 17" monitor on 1280x1024 and you're on 1920x1080 on a 24" monitor, your ship is still probably bigger than mine. Second, you can edit your ships file and make them bigger if you want. Third, I think the small ship is not an issue once you get used to it, since my ship is small due to a small monitor and I don't have an issue with it.

higher resolution does not give such a huge advantage as you guys (wark, jones, burnt) claim it does against those that use a lower resolution, such as 1280x1024 or 1440x900.

1600x1200 is about 50% more pixels than 1280x1024. I would say that is a significant advantage, easily enough is make the difference in games where 1 or 2 kills can easily decide a TWLD playoff matches.

on the bottom line, if you are better than your opponent then you will win, that's all there is to it.

Simply not true. If one squad has 10 deaths per person and another has 11 deaths, the squad with 10 deaths can be better and still lose. Same thing with resolution, if one squad has an advantage, the other not only needs to be better to win, it has to be better by a big enough margin to overcome their resolution disadvantage.

[Jones]

perhaps we should ask someone who was there when you could still use a high resolution. I wonder if people with 2048x1536 thought they had some advantage while playing elim over the rest. epi, ff, fbz?? =)

[Turban]

jones, you should know better than that. why are you pointing out the fact that some of the good players back in the days used higher resolutions to gain an advantage? that was eons ago, back in those days most regular players used to use either 1024x768 or 800x600, or possibly even lower resolutions in some cases. you gain a bigger advantage if you use 1280x1024 against 1024x768 than you do if you use 1920x1080 against 1280x1024, simply because it is possible for a good player to dodge and anticipate almost any shot with 1280x1024. you have more than enough to time to react if you're good enough, those increased pixels won't change a thing (besides making it easier to prevent from being rushed and slightly easier to aim due to you seeing the opponent and where he is moving -- hardly helps with dodging though), and you could still easily use radar to get your kills even if the opponents are using bigger resolutions.

1280x1024 is big enough of a resolution for one to dodge and anticipate most shots and rushes, as long as one is paying attention to their "surroundings" and radar. you should use sounds (especially 3d sounds) if you don't already do use, that way you will hear if a bullet is coming your way. heck, we could even decrease the resolution zoom to make it possible to see even further than now, hence making it possible to radar fight against those that use a bigger resolution. though that would probably throw those players game off that do not use radar grids for some odd reason.

to be frank, using higher resolutions will not make one invincible or suddenly give them way more kills in a match. check the statistics in twd if you don't agree with this, you will notice how those that use bigger resolutions are not carrying their team, and usually end up even losing and doing worse than they used to do before the resolution limit got raised.

also, it's not set in stone that twl will keep the 1280x1024/1400x900 resolution limits. :fear:

[Jones]

i'm through arguing this. all i can do is sit here watching good, old players, twld champions like burnt, geisha, talk about not raising the cap and basers, javelins talk about raising it because there are no advantages for someone who is using a 1920 vs a 1280 pixel resolution

[Turban]

i'm through arguing this. all i can do is sit here watching good, old players, twld champions like burnt, geisha, talk about not raising the cap and basers, javelins talk about raising it because there are no advantages for someone who is using a 1920 vs a 1280 pixel resolution

although you probably are talking about javelins and basers in general, i'm most definitely not saying there is no advantages in playing on a higher resolution as that would be a big lie. all i'm saying is that we should not make such a huge fuss about this topic as the advantage you get on 1920x1080 over 1280x1024 is miniscule at best. although those that still use 1024x768 would have a great disadvantage if their opponent has 1920x1200; but not many warbirds use that resolution anymore (at least the good ones).

and it's not like the limits are set in stone yet. i don't mind if they lower the resolution limit back to 1440x1024 in TWDD (or 1440x900/1280x1024 in TWLD) as long as the resolution limits will remain at 1920x1200 for TWLJ/TWLB/TWJD/TWBD. however, i will continue to use 1280x986 (windowed) in TWL, whether it's TWLJ, TWLB or TWLD. say what you want, but i don't care enough to play full screen and give this game my 100% focus.

.. although, it would be nice if the limit was the same in all arenas in trench wars. but whatever, you can't always get what you want ..

also, if i already haven't said this: i do get your arguments about how increasing the resolution limit in TWDD/TWLD could be a bad thing for the league, but to be honest it's worth testing out. what you should do is gather some statistics that prove that the increased resolution is giving an advantage to the players and then something could be done about it. TWL won't be here for another couple of months anyways, so we can still do some testing (which is what TWD is for) and you can go gather some evidence if you really want it removed.

[kthx]

We already have evidence, look at the poll.

[Turban]

not sure if that was just a poor attempt to troll this thread yet again, but i will go with the flow.

what we need to do is gather statistics from all the games that have been played in twdd this season (and possibly even in the past seasons) and see if those that use a higher resolution are really getting a noticeable advantage over those that use lower resolutions. we could even try to figure out the average scores good players had in the past season(s) if the database still has those statistics available. of course, we should only compare the games against top squads in the ladder at that given time (top 7 squads playing against each other) to get more accurate statistics.

going by the poll alone is silly. i could probably get 50+ people vote on "YES" if i spammed long enough in my chats and public arena.

[kthx]

Here are some more statistics, the majority of actual "warbirds" who have spent years warbirding have posted about this subject and the general consensus is that raising the resolution limits is fucking retarded. That should be enough right there to tell you everything you need to know since obviously a poll isn't.