Should we raise resolution limits in TWDD/TWJD?

[kthx]

You want to bring new people to this game, but expect them to play with crappy laggers?

How significant is the higher ping advantage?

Get some equally skilled warbirds and have them test it out. Do a couple of matches (like 10) with each on the same connection. Then do another 10 with one with a higher ping. And then switch it for another 10. A total of 30 matches.

You can even do a test where a mod tells each player secretly which connection to use, and then interview them after to see if they felt the other player had a connection advantage.


All in all, arguing about this without any data just seems moot.

[Jones]

-I see half of my starting lineup rendered useless if we are allowing 1920 res
-they also thought about quitting if it happened (atleast the ship)
-constant ping of 200 is not a big deal, the worst are spikes which you can probably fix in the arena settings. for example, I'm getting way more lagouts in 4v4 prac arenas than twd arenas.
-going from 256kbit to 24mbit adsl connection lowered my lag from 140 to 120
-i have a 2 year old laptop that can go up to 1680 res, whilst my parents laptop of 1 year can go up to 1280x800
-i still think im drunk from yesterday
-getting new playerrs by allowing them to use whatever resolution, or having older players quit because they refuse to buy a new laptop for 500 €. could be discussed further

edit: i can still think of atleast 10 advantages for javelins with higher res... but 1280x1024 is fine for them anyway.. i used to do fairly well on 1024x768 (btw, now that i think about it, i quit wbs in 2001 and started playing javelins because my max was 1024x768 and then i started playing them again when i got 1280.

[Exalt]

apparently you still don't know how latency works. how about we just move the damn server back to Helsinki and see you suffer.. again?
.

Move it back to Helsinki please. I never lagged with it there even with 56k AOL service for 5+ years, maybe more but I can't remember. I certainly never had more than 100 MS on broadband with it in finland.

Now, your shitty ass Euro connections always lag like shit even with the server there, and people like brokenfist could stop cheating their way to being good. You wouldn't see Thunder winning TWL finals anymore with fucking cheating by some random critical eat that is blamed on Euro lag. With the server in finland, those fucks would finally either lose, or be banned for cheating.

Then again, fucking newbies like Sika are from europe, and they cheated nonfucking stop and created artificial lag anyway. I'm sure more of you nerds would do it too, just like your idol Sika did for so many years.

Ever wonder why he quit playing TW? Everyone says he got too "elite" for it, but he fucking is trash without he cheats. I'd like to see him do good nowadays without them.\


ANYWAY... as far as the res limit is concerned... WHY does it have to be 1900 res? Most monitors do NOT go that high, and you have to buy a really high end monitor to raise your limit that high. Most monitors go to a max of 1600x1050 or whatever res. That should be the max you raise it to, not 1900. 1900 gives a REALLY unfair advantage, whereas 1600 is the majority of people who own semi decent monitors. 1900 guys could lower it to 1600 and still be happy, while the 1600 guys wouldn't be fucked over by having 1900 guys running circles around them.

All that being said... if it's 1900 and the game changes that significantly, I wouldn't buy a new monitor, and I would probably just quit if the advantage was that unfair. This game is dying, so a move like that is pretty stupid if you ask me, because you aren't gaining new playres... and you only stand to lose more of the ones you already have. It's your call though, and I don't really care either way.

I just think 1600x1050 should be the max res you raise it to, not 1900. Most people do not have 1900, while most have 1600 res.

[Turban]

well would you look at that, antique resolutions still reign supreme by a very comfortable margin

but by all means forget about those players and just focus on giving the minority what they want

looks like this game has finally succumbed to the cancer, rip

heh, unfortunately for you those statistics are not accurate at all (nor up-to-date) as it does not count the native resolution a player has -- rather it counts the resolution a player logs in with the first time. if those statistics were reset this very moment and made to count the native resolution a player has, then the graph would look very different. sad truth is that a lot of people (basically new players that join the game) don't know that it's possible to change resolution, hence they start playing with the resolution they are given in the beginning.

to get accurate statistics, we could always ask arobas if it's possible to see the native resolution someone is using and keep track on those. i would say 1680x1050 and higher resolutions are very common these days, despite you not wanting to admit that. i will still continue to use 1280x968 as i said earlier, so whatever.



as for jones, could you list the 10 advantages? i can only think of three advantages (although i guess one could make up variations of these advantages to get the 10 advantages) and they are hardly game breaking as the same things could "easily" be done on a lower resolution than 1980x1200 (basically on a resolution above 800x600). guess next you will say that having 1980x1200 in basing is an advantage too, eh? now on to the super advantages that javelins get!

- more time to react on bombs shot from off screen - these bombs can be dodged easily even with 1024x768 as long as you have an average (or even slightly below average) reaction time. when you use 1280x1024 these bombs are not a threat anymore, unless you aren't focusing (or simply are unlucky with a bounce). the sad truth is that most kills in javelin are done in close range, thus these kinds of bombs are not a problem at all. if one has a brain they would not change their playing style from close range (~450 pixels) and aggressive to far range (~1000 pixels) and passive because of the increased resolution. doing this kind of change would not only make you a solo player that would not get a lot of kills, but also get your team killed (as it would basically be 3v4 / 2v3 all the time) hence making your team lose in an even game.

- slightly more time to dodge shots from base to spawn area -- we are basically speaking of the amazing 88 pixel advantage you get from this one. it's hardly an advantage as it does not buy you much extra time to react on these bombs and they can already be prevented from hitting if you are not an idiot / amateur.

- positioning advantage -- this can easily be achieved by simply watching the radar and even having the sounds on to know if someone fired a bomb. unfortunately you can't do much if you are already off radar (when using 1280x1024) and an enemy bombs, as if you try to rush to the weakened you will be down to ~500 to ~300 energy, where as the enemy has already regained some of the lost energy. not effective enough, so to speak. but feel free to try rushing against me from off screen, would be amusing to see you fail. :wub:


p.s. have had a fucking cold for 7 consecutive days now, getting annoying as hell. just woke up, so bare with the grammatical errors. :grin:

[Exalt]

maybe its about time to upgrade all 10 - 15 year old comps rofl

This game is 10-15 years old. Maybe it's about time to upgrade video games you play too? The only appeal this game has left is the fact that 10-15 year old comps can run it. That's IT.

I don't see any of you amazing computer programmers remaking subspace in new age HD technology aka what XBOX Live is doing to shit like techmo bowl. I don't see anyone making a new subspace at all, and it cannot be that fucking hard to code. It really isn't that difficult for anyone with time to do. Why don't you programmers start making a new subspace, instead of bitching and moaning about people using older computers? You want new players? Remake subpace. You don't need the old sourcecode to make a game fairly similiar to this one. It's not like subspace is a beautiful game with genius fucking architecture. It's pretty damn simple in the grand scheme of game programming. We just don't have anyone capable AND willing to do it. I know a few people tried, but what's the point of remaking subspace EXACTLY the same way? There isn't one. Make it better with HD upgraded 2d graphics, and you might actually find an audience. Til then, stfu about the 10-15 year old computers.

EDIT:

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO KEEP SAYING THERE ARE NO ADVANTAGES AND WE SHOULD UPGRADE THE RES ANYWAY:

If there is no advantage, then why the fuck do you need the res upgraded at all? Leave it how it is. The graphics suck with upgraded res or not. They blow chunks no matter what fucking resolution you put the game in. It doesn't matter. You cannot randomly remake the graphics of a game simply through resolution. The pixels are a little higher, but they still fucking blow chunks compared to any new age 2d HD games like on xbox live. Stop trying to lie through your fucked up euro teeth by saying there are no advantages, because you wouldn't even give a fuck about a res change then.

Long story short: A res upgrade isn't going to draw new players in, so stfu.

ALSO: Everyone who keeps saying they NEED a res upgrade... basically it's because you want an unfair advantage on other players... that or even if the playing field was level.. you think the game mechanics will change enough to make you slightly better. Why don't you learn how to play subspace the way it is and try to get better THIS way, rather than gaining retarded unfair advantages on people with a little bit worse monitors than you?

Also, if you all say you wanna buy new fucking computers and huge monitors just to play subspace, then you are retarded. If that's the case, then I am down for someone remaking subspace in actual new age graphics/gameplay mechanics, and charging a really fucking small monthly fee. I'd rather pay money for subspace than for retarded games like WoW. You all say "oh hell no, i would quit" but in retrospect, you wouldn't unless you are a broke fuck. If you were so broke, then you wouldn't be able to afford retardedly huge monitors in the first place, let alone brand new computers. That is to say, unless your mommy and daddy pay for it, along with all your other bills, which I'm sure is the case for a lot of you douchebag losers. Get a job and grow up, and then we can talk about raising a res cap on a shitty game like subspace just so you can have your unfair advantage under the guise of "better graphics". Get fucking real. You aren't fooling anyone here. Try getting good at the game while things are still at a somewhat even playing field.

[Turban]

Move it back to Helsinki please. I never lagged with it there even with 56k AOL service for 5+ years, maybe more but I can't remember. I certainly never had more than 100 MS on broadband with it in finland.

unfortunately this is not correct, unless you lived in New York or some other US state in east coast during that time. if the server were moved to New York (where Hockey Zone is, as an example) then Finnish players would get around 90-110ms and people from Norway would get around 60-80ms latency. of course this would mean that people from west coast would get some additional latency (+20 ms) but at least Europeans and Asians/Australians would lag less than they do now. lag is hardly an issue anyways, as long as the player is not spiking (spike med) or having weapon ploss.

Then again, fucking newbies like Sika are from europe, and they cheated nonfucking stop and created artificial lag anyway. I'm sure more of you nerds would do it too, just like your idol Sika did for so many years.

Ever wonder why he quit playing TW? Everyone says he got too "elite" for it, but he fucking is trash without he cheats. I'd like to see him do good nowadays without them.

I think he quit because we added some resolution limits. He still actively plays SVS which requires way more skill than Trench Wars and does not have any resolution limits.

[Turban]

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO KEEP SAYING THERE ARE NO ADVANTAGES AND WE SHOULD UPGRADE THE RES ANYWAY:

If there is no advantage, then why the fuck do you need the res upgraded at all? Leave it how it is. The graphics such with upgraded res or not. They blow chunks no matter what fucking resolution you put the game in. It doesn't matter. You cannot randomly remake the graphics of a game simply through resolution. The pixels are a little higher, but they still fucking blow chunks compared to any new age 2d HD games like on xbox live. Stop trying to lie through your fucked up euro teeth by saying there are no advantages, because you wouldn't even give a fuck about a res change then.

Long story short: A res upgrade isn't going to draw new players in, so stfu.

there is no advantage in basing and javelin, this much should be clear by now. and here is a shocker for you: a lot of new players have quit the game because of the resolution limits in twd. i personally have seen around 20 new players quit because of it, and i'm sure that's only a small percentage of the total amount of players that have quit.

the game looks shit if you play full screen (basically it looks distorted) with different aspect ratio. this could easily be fixed by fucking playing windowed, so yeah.. playing windowed is great after all. <3 i've always enjoyed playing games windowed rather than full screen, even if it is this game or some new MMORPG/FPS.

post scriptum: use my gfx set with the right options to have an enhanced gaming experience.

[Exalt]

I think he quit because we added some resolution limits. He still actively plays SVS which requires way more skill than Trench Wars and does not have any resolution limits.

What skill does it take? This game doesn't take a rocket scientist to get good at. This is a 2d spaceship game. There aren't a shit ton of strategies for it like 3d games can have. Long story short... Sika cheated and got caught, and so he quit from the shame. SVS is a boring fucking zone anyway, or more people would play it. It's not any more difficult getting good at that then it is becoming good in TW.

[Turban]

What skill does it take? This game doesn't take a rocket scientist to get good at. This is a 2d spaceship game. There aren't a shit ton of strategies for it like 3d games can have. Long story short... Sika cheated and got caught, and so he quit from the shame. SVS is a boring fucking zone anyway, or more people would play it. It's not any more difficult getting good at that then it is becoming good in TW.

the only reason trench wars is the most popular zone is because it's..

1 - simple and easy to learn, does not take long to master any ship
2 - it's the starting zone for most people

[Exalt]

there is no advantage in basing and javelin, this much should be clear by now. and here is a shocker for you: a lot of new players have quit the game because of the resolution limits in twd. i personally have seen around 20 new players quit because of it, and i'm sure that's only a small percentage of the total amount of players that have quit.

the game looks shit if you play full screen (basically it looks distorted) with different aspect ratio. this could easily be fixed by fucking playing windowed, so yeah.. playing windowed is great after all. <3 i've always enjoyed playing games windowed rather than full screen, even if it is this game or some new MMORPG/FPS.

post scriptum: use my gfx set with the right options to have an enhanced gaming experience.

This is only an issue when you use your new age monitor that you overpaid for to get 1900x1200 res on. The problem is, the graphics are only distorted because you didn't pay ENOUGH money to buy a monitor that can switch between 16:8 and 4:3 resolutions. My monitor is widescreen, and it does both.

Long story short, didn't you already get your 1440x1028 res already to fix the distortion thing?

Also, people quitting because of a res cap is retarded. They ONLY quit because they don't get their unfair advantage anymore, and so they are being little whiny ass bitches about it.

The only reason to want a res limit change is to gain your unfair advantage in hopes that you will get better at the game somehow. That's it. The game looks like shit whether it's windowed OR fullscreen too, so none of that matters. This game was made in 98, not 2010. That's 12 years ago. Every game from 98 looks like shit now.

The fact of the matter is, the graphics even back then were garbage. They have always been garbage. This game was never really a graphical masterpiece even for it's time, and it just shows it's age even moreso now. To keep saying that you want a res change simply for graphical improvement is retarded at best, and just a plain lie at the worst. You want your unfair advantage, and it's shitty.

I can play on higher res too, but I choose to play on an even playing field. I don't want to get better at this game somehow, and then everyone blame it on the rest difference. There's a reason everyone thinks that the old players from back in 99.. before there were res limits... don't even compare to the skill of players nowadays. It's true for many reasons.. one being TWD, but another being that there is no more unfair resolution advantages. All the people that quit because of a res cap where just whiny little baby bitches who couldn't handle the fact that joe schmoe with a normal monitor was now able to see the same distance that they could.

[Exalt]

the only reason trench wars is the most popular zone is because it's..

1 - simple and easy to learn, does not take long to master any ship
2 - it's the starting zone for most people

3 - It's a hell of a lot better designed and a hell of a lot more fun.

[Turban]

3 - It's a hell of a lot better designed and a hell of a lot more fun.

wouldn't be so sure about that. trench wars has the worst public arena by a fair margin, at least when comparing with dsb, svs, hs and eg.

there are some nice things about trench wars that are unique compared to other zones, i guess. some events, the players (rather, the player community) and twd / twl and other leagues. other zones have nice (competitive) leagues as well, but they are not quite the same as trench wars leagues.

[Exalt]

wouldn't be so sure about that. trench wars has the worst public arena by a fair margin, at least when comparing with dsb, svs, hs and eg.

there are some nice things about trench wars that are unique compared to other zones, i guess. some events, the players (rather, the player community) and twd / twl and other leagues. other zones have nice (competitive) leagues as well, but they are not quite the same as trench wars leagues.

Well, I agree with you on the public arena, except that no one who really plays TW for long plays it for public (unless they never have any intentions of making this game any more than a small time waster... like a solitaire or minesweeper type game, and therefore your 1st option of it being the easiest to pick up and learn play takes effect). They play it for TWD and the leagues, which are by far the best in any zone aside from HZ, who also have nothing comparable to TWD.

In late 2002 when TWD was made, TW population skyrocketed, and that's when it's hayday really took off. I didn't even play subspace very much beyond occasionally til TWD, but afterword, I never looked back. TWD really revolutionized TW as the best zone. TWL is great, but TWD is what made TW what it is in terms of being the best designed and most fun.

[Turban]

This is only an issue when you use your new age monitor that you overpaid for to get 1900x1200 res on. The problem is, the graphics are only distorted because you didn't pay ENOUGH money to buy a monitor that can switch between 16:8 and 4:3 resolutions. My monitor is widescreen, and it does both.

Long story short, didn't you already get your 1440x1028 res already to fix the distortion thing?

some people don't want to play with gray blocks on the sides (heck, even my monitor can switch from 16:10 to 4:3) as that is ugly as hell if you ask me. not to mention the game would still remain distorted, and no: 1440x1024 did not fix that shit, but that did allow people to finally use 1440x900 resolution (which is a legit widescreen resolution). the x1024 ending was added just because the arena settings can't limit it to "1440x900" AND "1280x1024" as you have to set an X and Y limit, hence the 1440x1024 -- unless you make the bot do that.

Also, people quitting because of a res cap is retarded. They ONLY quit because they don't get their unfair advantage anymore, and so they are being little whiny ass bitches about it.

The only reason to want a res limit change is to gain your unfair advantage in hopes that you will get better at the game somehow. That's it. The game looks like shit whether it's windowed OR fullscreen too, so none of that matters. This game was made in 98, not 2010. That's 12 years ago. Every game from 98 looks like shit now.

The fact of the matter is, the graphics even back then were garbage. They have always been garbage. This game was never really a graphical masterpiece even for it's time, and it just shows it's age even moreso now. To keep saying that you want a res change simply for graphical improvement is retarded at best, and just a plain lie at the worst. You want your unfair advantage, and it's shitty.

actually the graphics were a bit worse back in the day.

also i'm not sure why it's retarded for new players wanting to play on their native resolution? we need to keep these new players playing the game after all. we can't rely on the old player base all the time, even if we wanted to. we are growing up, getting jobs and getting more inactive by the day.

i'll keep using 1280x986 as i said, even if they removed the limits completely (yes, i have a bigger monitor). i wouldn't mind raising the limit in twjd/twbd/twlb/twlj as they would not get an advantage from that.

keep the damn twdd/twld limits as they are now, i'm talking about basing and javelin. we're arguing about different things.

[Turban]

Well, I agree with you on the public arena, except that no one who really plays TW for long plays it for public (unless they never have any intentions of making this game any more than a small time waster... like a solitaire or minesweeper type game, and therefore your 1st option of it being the easiest to pick up and learn play takes effect). They play it for TWD and the leagues, which are by far the best in any zone aside from HZ, who also have nothing comparable to TWD.

heh, if that only were true.. if that only were true.

a lot of players (almost the majority of our player base) play in the public arena and not in twd as they either do not..

- do not know about twd, or no one has told them about it
- do not know that there are other arenas in trench wars
- think that public arena is the best thing in this zone

there are a lot of people that have been playing public for years (8+) and haven't played a single twd game. and most new players are stuck in public arena for months until they either quit or get to a twd squad (or learn that trench wars has more to offer than just public).