TWD Roster Cap

[Draft]

vatican asshole, you done? #pos

[Draft]

you know what else kills this game? 1 LEAGUERS like you and dwopple who can't do shit if they aint in shark. #pow

edit:watch out for my thread about this

[Pressure]

hey i'm pretty happy that there are still at least 5 games of twbd being played at least 5/7 days of the week. a cap would be good for basing with some sort of variation of turban's ideas in the mix.

[Vatican Assassin]

either people change their habits or basing will die soon. go base needs to get active, since that was basing's only "bridge" to twbd. I voted for 35 cap.

i was an ok wb and spid at one point, but once you go shark, you never go back. in fact you can;t because any and all factors that determine one's aim have been utterly destroyed. if you come down on basing ofc you're gonna feel the wrath of the vat.

Stayon I considered our conversation, you seem to think that pene and pandora should dissolve and spread the wealth of basers so that newer squads can form. Well, no offense (and i I mean this, but I have a hard time flowering up words and beating around the bush, so here it goes) but think about what you have done each season.

You join either a dice off shoot, or some newer squad, or an old-new squad like mambo, and then you ditch them for TWL and don't look back as the squad burns and can't compete in TWL. You aren't doing twbd any favors this way, you are one of the top 5 basers left in this game. Step up and make your own squad, or stay with the on you're on, and go through the entire season with it, even into TWL. Good squads grow and persist because others see a couple of easily recognizable names when they check the roster--it gives them confidence that the squad is legitimate and capable.

Pandora didn't start great, in fact we had our dismal mainliner season where we were too scared to even wear Pandora's tags cuz we sucked so bad, but we stayed with it, and now we can form a squad and get 20 good basers in a few days because it has such a trusted name. You know what you're going to get: a lot of good twbd games with competent players and a runner-up lb title. When people see Stayon's name on a roster they know that they're going to get: a lot of good twbd games with competent players and a dissolved squad in twlb. This is not sustainable. You and some other basing vets need to put in some hard work if you really want to see more competitive teams in TWLB. One love.

[kthx]

rofl vatican, you didn't win with cold hard facts, you spouted off with some ignorant basing logic that made absolutely no sense and mistook my feelings of boredom with the topic as resignation.

Oh and I am the current twld champ, I do play the game.

[Vatican Assassin]

you don't play twbd so your twbd forum post ratio to twbd game time is unbalanced and u just got trolled son

[Lizard Fuel]

if us basers can't see that we need to not hoard players then we deserve our fate

This was my favorite part. Despite the fact that I am extremely in favor of a roster cap, this makes perfect sense to me too. However I doubt the ego of the general population will allow such a thing to happen.

[Jones]

you know what else kills this game? 1 LEAGUERS

the guy has a point. one way to remedy this is for every squad expand to more leagues. for example: penetrate and pandora last season. Recruit some warbirds who are slightly interested in basing and add them to basing. give them PLAYINGTIME in bd's (since base is dead). and tell them to build a bridge and walk over it if they start bitching about 'this league is better than this'.

[Zeebu]

combine elims

force people to wb and jav in the same arena WITH EACH OTHER OSADFGMDF

[Burnt]

There are many flaws with the idea of the roster cap.

First, this poll is extremely flawed since there is no number associated with the roster cap, are people voting for a cap of 20,30,40,50? Without any numbers in the poll it is meaningless.

Second, a roster cap will force squads to axe their bad/inactive players. If bad players are axed and even bother to form a new squad, that squad will be terrible and it'll make the squads a lot more uneven than they are now.

Third, when inactive players get axed they aren't going to magically form an active squad, even if they form one they will hardly ever have enough on to get a game.

Fourth, with a roster cap you increase the value of every roster spot, meaning it will not be worth giving one to a person who logs in once or twice a week, so they will be squadless and have less incentive to log in at all.

[brookus]

How about this simple test to see if basing games (if we're using basing as an example) would increase : how many 5v5, 6v6, 7v7, 8v8 twbds are currently played with those huge rostered teams? If the unlimited cap is a problem that needs addressing, you should see a huge amount of 8v8 matches vs all the others. That would indicate that there are plenty of people on the various squads and going off the numbers alone, a cap should be considered.

My guess is that you'll see more 6v6 and 7v7 games though or at least roughly even numbers. What that indicates, obviously, is that despite these huge rosters, teams don't have their entire roster on for games at the same time.

Beyond the numbers, the problem with a cap has always been player demand. Meaning those players on squads that aren't getting enough games to satisfy themselves have always been free to leave and form their own squads. This happens sometimes and doesn't happen other times. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. What you're trying to do with a cap is force those below top-20 people from squads to leave and form new squads. Considering they don't do that currently, how successful do you think they will be when forced to do it?

llater,
Tony

[kthx]

As someone said earlier, this has been brought up 50000 times before in the past, and every time common sense dictates that it doesn't happen because people end up listening to the people who know what they are talking about. Pretty much the only people who want this change are basers who know their league is dying. And despite Vaticans attempts to talk shit I do know that the cram is boring as fuck and basically ruined basing, just because I don't play said league doesn't mean I don't talk to people who play in said league. Basing is like.. the MLB of TW, Javving is the NBA, and WBing is the NFL. Sure basing might be "trenchwars pastime" but its still boring as fuck to watch and people mainly go play it or watch it for nostalgia. Of course the more fast paced, leagues that allow individual skill to shine through more and with more interesting characters are the popular leagues. Its a sign of the times, Warbirds and Javs are getting bigger while basing is still in the dark ages whining about instant replay slowing down the game even more.

[Pressure]

As someone said earlier, this has been brought up 50000 times before in the past, and every time common sense dictates that it doesn't happen because people end up listening to the people who know what they are talking about. Pretty much the only people who want this change are basers who know their league is dying. And despite Vaticans attempts to talk shit I do know that the cram is boring as fuck and basically ruined basing, just because I don't play said league doesn't mean I don't talk to people who play in said league. Basing is like.. the MLB of TW, Javving is the NBA, and WBing is the NFL. Sure basing might be "trenchwars pastime" but its still boring as fuck to watch and people mainly go play it or watch it for nostalgia. Of course the more fast paced, leagues that allow individual skill to shine through more and with more interesting characters are the popular leagues. Its a sign of the times, Warbirds and Javs are getting bigger while basing is still in the dark ages whining about instant replay slowing down the game even more.

Did you just say basing is slow compared to jav and wb?

LOL

Those 2 leagues used to bore the fuck out of me. It was only once basing became less active that i started playing them, but dont try to fool yourself and say wb/jav is more entertaining.

A better analogy would be: wb/jav are like playing chess. basings like playing halo, in comparison to playing chess

[kthx]

Yeah basing is really slow, I can finish an entire dd match before you even finish adding the lineups in a basing match. A chess match? You fucking kidding me, most of the other warbirds I play are literally retarded, its more like Chutes and Ladders, I climb up to 15-5 and they chute down to 5-10. Basing is like stratego and shit, gotta wait till the pieces are in the right place and go around the fucking lakes and shit.

[Stayon]

big post! :wub:

kthx your definition of boring is the same as mine concerning wbs

30 would be a good number. no one needs more than this. The idea of having 3 different squads for each division has always been a good one, but I bet that would be alot of work for staff, but this way alot of people could actually play other leagues. I absolutly hate wb but if I could have a wb squad even I would play just for fun and go 2-10. Its a matter of people trying other ships and not sticking to 1.

Vat what I meant personal greed, I didnt mean tittles or anything but more the fact that my time on this game is comming and im noy those kids that get here saying "quitting ss" , this is the only game I have time and still play in my life (im 23), and whenever eventually I feel like getting online and bding, look at a sad bd ladder, I dont wanna bd the same 2 squads like I did the past 6 months and eventually a bd vs some weak squad or a medium one like freebie.

Was hard trying to talk with 5 people talking at the same time, but you got me wrong. I have no problem with pandora or penetrate and no I do not think they should dissolve on the contrary actually. Basing always had squads with huge numbers, today we cant afford that anymore. Sometimes it was just so hypocritical hearing from some people saying "Dice is stacked". but think about it..stacked in quality or quantity? Last season was probably the first time we had various subs for each ship, I lost season 9 cuz we had to put Puu in terr..season 12, I didndt play but dice had no real bench, season 10 we added mega newbie vs you guys in the third round, now thats fucking stacked! I rather be stacked in quality with lets say 7 spids, than count 15 twl spids on pandora's and pene's roster last season. Now that is stacked. I would of been happy last season if you guys kept your best players but atleast would of axed those who are just benching and speccing in twl games.

But this cant come from caps only..it has to come from players also, and its not just directed to basers but every players. I remember when I started playing, all I wanted was to get better and compete..the only reason im on Dice is because im a very competitive guy, if they weren't good I would of never joined em..and I ditched my "SS Spastic family" in order to compete at a higher level and win 5 years ago, I would of done the same thing to dice if it was needed (this is only directed to me, you'll see where im trying to get tho). People give up too easily, care too much about "SS families" and generally aren't that competitive.

Important : There will always be subs in every team..but I (or anyone should) would never sit on a team for a medal, or on one that has too many players in order to play, I would just work my ass off to either start or join some squads where I could play. What I mean is, too many people on this game, give up too soon, instead of trying to improve and get actual play time. Over the years I saw dozens and dozens of people, that if you sum all their twl games in lets say..5 years, that would be 1 complete season of twl, its ridiculous and its been happening for too long.

As for myself only Vat, since you mentioned it, in the off season when I join some squad, I never ever promissed to stay in 5 years since I joined dice, I join to help out only. If 1 person leaves and a squad dies, thats not my problem, but the captains. Its their job to keep it together and recruit people, I cant be their daddy.

And to finish I honestly think go base is very important to basing. wbs and javs have elim/belim, wbduel/javduel and events (because basing events were never as hosted as the others ones), basers only had go base. its the only bridge from pub to twbd and as importantly its was the only place basers could practise outside twbd. Tabarnak was the exception, recently from pub to twbd, I dont know anyone else, not to mention there arent that many new basers, all us either play for a long time or got few years of this. People these days practise basing in twd only, and thats not enough for new people, and for the ones who want improve. Its not a coicidence that Penetrate activicty over the past 2 years, that some of their "new" basers are better than those who are on others squads, people on medium squads and weaker squads will never be able to fight with 50 twbds in off season vs people who got 200 (random numbers).

Ever since staff decided to automatized, it started to die and that was an error. It was better when it was announced by staff and some selecetd trustfull basers had powers to start it. Why do you think go base started to suck? how many times did we see bad captains, bad lineups and too many specials? Even it go base gets active again, I dont expect things to be much better, but it can help!

And to try to proove it, look at baseelim 2 years ago..it was dead! They fixed the bot, added streaks (some sort of ranking or streaks for go base would be easy to add apparently) and look baseelim is always being played, and its no fucking coicidence that if you look at the twjd ladder and you notice the following: biggest number of squads, biggest number of jav squads only (and notice each has around 20ish people). also notice that there was a "sprout" of new players playing jav, belim had a role when it went back up again.

The old talk, this game is going to die, well thats obvious, its just a matter if its delayed or not, and this case in particular basing! love!