-SQUADS: CHALLENGE THE WORLD!-

[Ricko]

Very much up for this....make it so who ever !accepts the challenge for the 'world' team is instantly made the team captain for that round/match maybe?

Lasenza - people will see it's a challenge from fierce and if they have any ideas about current squads they will know it's a top squad and not try to play, if they dont then it will be a learning curve for them.

[Wazzaaa.nl]

Very much up for this....make it so who ever !accepts the challenge for the 'world' team is instantly made the team captain for that round/match maybe?

Lasenza - people will see it's a challenge from fierce and if they have any ideas about current squads they will know it's a top squad and not try to play, if they dont then it will be a learning curve for them.

Please dont implement this ^ cap idea of him

Fork: 1) People in pub who dont normally play twd/ refuse to join a squad may end up playing a twd match and find it is fun and join a squad.
its better not to make a cap but let in first four
if youll make it like wbduel, the first one will let all his friends play and shit like in wbduel
and we want to attract people from pub who normally dont play twd, getting them into twd
if youll make this cap style well get same shit what happens in wbduel ppl only choose the best players or their friends
and the new players/ pubbers will be kept in spec

[RaCka]

I like this idea, the only suggestion from me is that its a minimum of 4v4 not 3v3

[Ephemeral]

The potential good reasons to do this are already posted. Are there potential bad reasons?

One might be that the existing squads simply own the ‘world’ in every game and it ends up having the opposite desired effect; new players come away thinking ‘fuck this, there is no way that I as a player will ever invest 10 years in this game to get that good’ or ‘there is no point in trying to establish that new squad I was thinking about forming’.

Qan touched on another thing, let’s not code some shit up that crashes zone, has limitations, or is half-assed in some other way. (We already have plenty of events and arenas that are half-assed, adding another thing is stupid.) We need to understand what it will take to do this correctly; I assume that Qan/Kyn can fill us in on the scope of work.

And like other events, we need to be careful about raping Pub of population. Our track record of ignoring pub 0 population is well established and we are paying the price for that now. Is there anything that can/should be done to limit the potential removal of a viable Pub playing population?

And lastly, is there anything we can do to determine the success/failure of this addition beyond the obvious. (Obvious being that is gets used.)
eph


P.S. - I'm not arguing that this idea is bad. I would just like to ensure that we don't step in the same pile of shit that we always step in with 'good ideas'; there are two sides to every 'good idea'.

[bkgmjo]

Not that wrong, makes me want to have that thing as a merge with wbduel/javduel in a few larger than now duel boxes in pub even more as it wouldn't count as TWD match anyways. The more players there are in an arena the more likely things are to happen.

[bkgmjo]

Could implement a waiting queue for duels so everyone gets their turn in the boxes. May it be 1vs1, 3vs3, 1vs4 or whatever in any kind of ship setup.

(Sorry, too lazy to change skins back and forth to edit last post today)

[qan]

Took another look at this. I know there are possible disadvantages associated with it, but anything that keeps people on because they're able to play TWD is usually a pretty solid move. If there are worries people might dip away from pub -- well, if they're enjoying the game there, in all likelihood they probably won't leave. If they do leave, it'd only be a small number of people.

MatchBot is extra-special fun to work on, so if I'm going to do this I'd like to nail down some of the details, some of which have been worked out via this thread:

• A game should only start when there are enough "world" players. So players would issue a command indicating that they accept the world challenge from a particular squad. First person to do so could act as the cap. But the game would only count as accepted once the correct number of World players had issued the command.
• It might be tricky to get a BD going due to the number of players needed.
• Replacing captains (especially for something like BD) could result in problems. For example, what if the player who is capped has never played? (Command to give up Captainship -- easier. Command to vote out a Captain -- harder. Or, perhaps let the squad that isn't the "world" squad kill the game as necessary, as the game won't count for any points?)
• Subbing would be tricky. I suppose any player who issues the command to be part of the world team, before or after it starts, could be subbed onto the team.
• What would World captains be allowed to do? Is there anything they shouldn't be allowed to do? Would we have to implement a captain ban system so that the inevitable abusers of the system would no longer be able to cap on World? (Remember, people will be playing actual squads, and "trolling" them will probably be fairly common. I use trolling in quotes because that's not trolling: that's just being a douchebag. But apparently now any time you're just fucking with someone, that's apparently thought of as trolling. IMO trolling must be witty or it's just acting like every other child in the world.)

If we can get these out of the way, we can put something together that works. But you gotta help me out here, because the last time I was serious about TWD, we didn't have MatchBots, and while I know them well in the back-end, the specifics as to how certain elements are used by players are often slightly gray for me.

[Ephemeral]

Qan,
Good points, like everything else this will be abused and exploited. It is easy to imagine that some players will intentionally try to screw things up by shitting around with the captainships. Perhaps only players who have XX amount of hours playing should be allowed to be World Cap and have a black list that staff can add people to if they prove themselves to be idiots?
eph

Edit; We would surely need a way to prevent dumbasses from spamming challenges

[Shaddowknight]

A group of trusted players already exists, but for newplayer helping purposes. We should use something similar for the World Captains. This would prevent a LOT of trolling/douchebaggery. TWD ops could add/remove players from it to make sure there are players around, but the total dickbags dont get on it.

[Fork]

Possible Ideas:

1) Whoever challenged: can pick the cap for the other team?

2) Group of trustworthy players can cap these games

3) (personally my fav) The first 3-5 players to type a command get to play. If another player types the command and team is full- they are a sub meaning that if a player lags out 3 times or a player leaves arena and doesn't return within 30 seconds- they are automatically put in. If another player types the command with a full team and a sub waiting- it will prompt them there is already another player waiting and you are 2nd on the waiting list. If the squad types !addplayer... it will only work if another player is waiting as a sub.

If pro squads want more of a challenge vs the world ?allow 3 vs 4 challenges.

[Dour]

This is a great idea! Has there been any attempt to get this up and going?

[Dour]

Qan it would be amazing if you were able to code a bot for this.

[qan]

After doing a little work on bwjsbot (the one that does base, wbduel, javduel, spiderduel and now, experimentally, fighterduel -- adding turretduel fairly soon, probably), I realized that while this is a MASSIVE pain to implement on MatchBot, it can be done EASILY on bwjsbot.


So basically, you do a ?help call. "request squad v world in wbduel" or the like. Staffer does !squadcap <name>, and then only players from the cap's squad can be added. Very likely, a zoner would be made.

I know that wbduel != twdd, javduel != twjd and base != twbd ... but... squad vs world games would never be able to count toward TWD rankings anyhow, and the difficulty of adding such functionality to TWD vs the bwjs arenas is the difference between learning to ride a bike, and riding one after you already know how.


Probably not exactly what everyone wants, but if I tell you that you can't have exactly what you want, will you settle for something close to it? (Heh.)

[Ricko]

think you meant squad vs world not staff vs world

[qan]

think you meant squad vs world not staff vs world

Damn. Yes. Fixed.


This was very easy to implement (the wbduel/javduel/base version) so I put it in. It's in testing, though. A staff member will need to start it (using !squadcaptain), so do a ?help if interested. We were talking about maybe throwing in incentives that relate to TWD ... ship unlocks, squad page unlocks ... dunno, various ideas.

Once tested and confirmed working, this option will send a zoner out when started. Good way to draw in players during off hours, etc.

The one thing it lacks is the stats page in TWD, which is admittedly a big draw ... but MatchBot is a Frankenstein creation after so many years, so that a TWD squad v world probably will never happen, unless we completely rewrite MatchBot, or someone who really wants to see it in comes along and mangles MatchBot yet again to work with a feature that it was never intended to have. (I investigated the possibility for several hours, because there was a lot of interest. Yes, the invesigation, 0 lines of code, was several hours. This would be a long and very unpleasant project.) That person isn't me, though.