Tanked

[Awesome]

Ironically Tanked would have made it into TWL-B even if they hadnt have played those three matches against Interface.

Why not simply erase the games and points given that were claimed to have been fed... and if, as you say, Tanked would have enough points... let them qualify for the points they did earn legitimately.

I personally don't care either way, simply because i have no interest in that league, but i can understand why tanked is pissed if they were already in a position to get into TWLB.

[Cylor]

If you enter twlb when someone dissolves you enter with 0 wins and most likely no hope at making the playoffs.

Yes, Tanked surely would have made playoffs had they been in the leagues.

[genes]

Genes, you dont really have solid proof that there was no feeding going on. It is only your opinion, which means nothing. I think from what the pusher saw and what the ops decided on was the right idea. Why the hell would you play a crappy basing squad 3 times right after another right before the ladder locked? Either tanked was planning on swapping wins.... or they just wanted to beat the crap out of a weak squad that gives them no challenge 3 times in a row (yeah right).

What is wrong with playing crappy teams again? look at BasingCrew. The fact that we played a crappy team 1 hour b4 leagues closed is why they are mad. If we played shitty teams a week b4 it closed, aka like BasingCrew, we would be fine. It is just that we played them b4 leagues that ops think it is feeding, WHICH IT IS NOT. Also, U cant kick people out of leagues for attempting to feed, because their isnt even a rule against feeding, yet alone we DIDNT EVEN FEED/GET FED. Interface put up a good fight against us in twbd, this was a clear win, and no feeding was involved.

[Underground]

genes the problem is not playing easy squads. Staff just thinks u got fed. THAT is the problem. just read what PUSH said.

[Sarien]

Push.. as a suggestion.. I'd put it down as a rule that TWL invites are up to the discretion of the TWL ops solely. This way you can use your system, and if you have squads displaying unethical if not outright illegal behavior they can be overlooked for an invite, but used as a replacement squad, and you have something in text that you can point to as a catch-all rule coverage. It's just fricking common sense that if you're feeding your squad, you're gonna get denied. If it weren't.. then instead of yelling about how no you didn't do it.. and anyway it's not illegal.... you'd be going hell yes we did it.. it isn't illegal.. You wouldn't feel the need to hide it, in other words.

Such a rule would solve things in a neat little package.

[Cig Smoke]

If interface put up a good fight against u then u probably dont deserve a spot in TWLB neway. Like they said atleast 1 squad will probably drop out of the league, if ukeep active in TWBD u'll get the spot. Build for next year.

Although i do agree with demon, make it 16 let tanked and Grapevine as the 2 other and u got a very nice league.

[Anduril.]

Tanked is out of the leagues. Try to live with it !! The decision has been taken !!
.?squaddissolve and go on with your life.
If in a soccer match a player get's called back by the referee because of an offside situation, while it actually was NOT an offside situation. Are you gonna whine during/after the match about it ?! Are you gonna argue for DAYS about it ?!? Try to deal with the situation ffs !! The decision has been taken !! DONE = DONE !
To quote Run DMC :

It's like that! And that's the way it is !!

[bloodzombie]

It's obvious that feeding would be illegal. It's like making a rule that you aren't allowed to hack the bot to give you free wins. Sure it's not written down, but everyone should be able to infer it.

I don't buy this because what's the obvious punishment? complete removal from leagues even though they would've made it without those points? I think if it's not written, you give them the minimum punishment which would be erasing those games.

[Mattey]

I don't buy this because what's the obvious punishment? complete removal from leagues even though they would've made it without those points? I think if it's not written, you give them the minimum punishment which would be erasing those games.

Since when has ignorance gotten somebody the minimum punishment? The punishment fits; there's no rule written that states that breaking unwritten rules deserves the minimum punishment available.

[bloodzombie]

Since when has ignorance gotten somebody the minimum punishment? The punishment fits; there's no rule written that states that breaking unwritten rules deserves the minimum punishment available.

because if it's unwritten, then it's not a fucking rule. You're just deciding it's a rule and then handing out the biggest punishment available.

[genes]

Read This

At this point, 2 days after the close for leages, I am still unsure of why Tanked was not allowed into twlb. I THINK it is because Some say tanked was trying to other free twjd wins for free twbd wins.

1.) If feeding is not illegal (its not in the rules written by THE PUSHER), then why is it even a matter if we want to feed? Squads feed all the time, granted they do it 3 weeks b4 the close for twl.

2.) We did not actually commit the act of feeding/getting fed for points. In our "attempted feedings", even if we DID try to feed, WE DID NOT FEED. Its one thing if you say you are going to feed, but do unless you actually feed, what is the problem?

3.) Why does Tanked get in trouble for the so-called "attempting to violate a rule of twl THAT DOESNT EVEN EXIST?"

[bloodzombie]

At this point, 2 days after the close for leages, I am still unsure of why Tanked was not allowed into twlb. I THINK it is because Some say tanked was trying to other free twjd wins for free twbd wins.

1.) If feeding is not illegal (its not in the rules written by THE PUSHER), then why is it even a matter if we want to feed? Squads feed all the time, granted they do it 3 weeks b4 the close for twl.

2.) We did not actually commit the act of feeding/getting fed for points. In our "attempted feedings", even if we DID try to feed, WE DID NOT FEED. Its one thing if you say you are going to feed, but do unless you actually feed, what is the problem?

3.) Why does Tanked get in trouble for the so-called "attempting to violate a rule of twl THAT DOESNT EVEN EXIST?"

as much as I hate to, I completely agree with genes.

If you take them out, you should have to go back through the whole twd schedule adn make judgement calls about all the other squads that might've fed each other.

[Rosstones]

It wasn't a rule,.. that is first problem

We didn't feed... that is second problem (wtf is interface anyway?)


Besides all of that... just take our points from those 3 games away and let us in please.

This mishap alrdy tore my squad apart and made half the basers leave so it's not like we are a huge threat, how could it hurt?

If you let tanked in along with grapevine or whoever the fuck u want in.. it will make leagues more interesting. Just let this slide, and next season it will be writen in stone.

Being punished for a rule that didn't exsist is kinda lame. Even though feeding should be illegal and asumed to be illegal, it wasnt addressed in the rules, i would have thought feeding would addressed, but i know its impossible to think of everything.


More squads in basing league = more fun , we deserved to enter the league anyway. I do believe many people agree... demonfaze and bz both do.

[Epinephrine]

**NOTE: I was not involved with this decision, nor do I have the power to make this decision or overturn it, so I'm just stating what I know of the incident and my opinion**

Looking at the rules ( http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=10813 ):

------------
- Trench Wars Leagues rules may be revised at any time by the League Operators, but notice will be given on the official TWL site (www.twleagues.org) beforehand. As well, TWL is a privilege, not a right, and the League Operators can revoke this privilege for any player with sufficient cause.
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2.03 In order for a TWD Squad to qualify for TWL consideration, that Squad must meet all Trench Wars Leagues requirements. In addition, the Squad must have played a minimum of 15 matches in the specific division (Basing, Dueling, Javelins) they are attempting to qualify for. Squads that have not met the minimum 15 games played requirement will not be considered for Trench Wars Leagues qualification.
--------------
3.04 Any Squad Captain or Co-Captain found to be guilty of cheating to alter game play and to create an unfair advantage, will be subject to:
a) Permanent suspension from Trench Wars Leagues participation.
b) Forfeit of all Squad matches played in the week the offense was discovered for the Squad(s) of which the player was a captain or co-captain of regardless of participation in those particular games.
c) Removal of the Squad(s) from Trench Wars League participation for the Squad(s) of which the offending player was a captain or co-captain of. The other members and co-captain(s) of the Squad may appeal this decision and it will be decided by the League Operators, at which point a new captain may be approved.
d) Referral to League Operators and Trench Wars Moderators for immediate punishment including being banned from Trench Wars.
----------------

Although rule 3.04 is technically about TWL games, from rule 2.03 we can infer that squads that "meet all Trench Wars Leagues requirements" should meet the rules set out in 3.04. As well the preamble about the rules is that TWL is a priviledge, not a right, and as such the TWL Ops may rule on issues if they believe that something was violated.


The perponderance of evidence was that Tanked was fed games by Interface.

1) 3 squads came up to THE PUSHER and told him about how a Tanked captain offered to trade wins just hours before the deadline.

2) Tanked played Interface 3 times in TWBD and once in TWJD in the hour and a half before the deadline. Tanked won all three of the TWBDs and lost the TWJD to Interface.

3) Tanked played a twbd vs Interface at 3:42 PM EST, 4:17 PM EST and 4:49 PM EST on that day. Meanwhile they played a twjd vs Interface at 3:53 PM EST on the same day (stats taken from www.twdivisions.org).

Now from what I know a TWBD game takes at least 15 minutes to win, but it appears that a jav game was started BEFORE the TWBD game would have ended normally.

Those are the facts.

As well there is tangental evidence:

1) Interface at that point had only ever won 6 TWJD games:

Apr 25 win vs. Egyptian
Apr 23 win vs. Avalonian
Apr 22 win vs. Verone
Apr 21 win vs. Entirety
Apr 20 win vs. Avalonian
Apr 20 win vs. War Heros

Only 1 win ever against a squad currently above 1000 points. They won against Tanked, a pretty good TWJD team that had wins vs many teams of reasonable quality including my own.

2) At that point Interface had only played TWBD only TWICE EVER. Their 3rd, 4th, and 5th TWBD games were vs. Tanked an hour before the deadline.

3) As an observer of that game, Interface didn't even put in their 5th player until around 5 seconds left until the game would have forfeit. THE PUSHER had just warned in another arena that any obvious feeding would be looked down upon, and it was not unreasonable to think word might have already gotten out, especially from the number of spectators in that arena. Even if it wasn't, Interface didn't even have 4 people in the arena stably until those last 5 seconds (they had 4-5 people throughout who cycled in and out of the arena from spec). Did they put in someone because they knew THE PUSHER was looking?

4) As an observer of that game I can say that Sk8, the terrier for Interface was basically afk or at least not moving for 1/2 the game. Sure sometimes he would go to the lower base, but he'd just sit there motionless for long periods of time, easily getting killed. Does this look like the 'good basing game' that some have incinuated?

5) Tanked was in the last qualifying spot for TWLB. If Melee would have won their first game against Incuria that day Melee may have passed Tanked in the TWBD standings. Thus to be safe Tanked needed wins.

6) Interface was just out of qualification range of TWLJ. If Interface could of won a few more games, they might have made it.

I think from the facts of the game, and from the tangental evidence that any outside observer would say that feeding was indeed occuring for this situation because when all evidence points towards feeding, the likelyhood that it was all a crazy coincidence is too much to pass up.

Since we have already established that the spirit of the TWL rules must be followed for a squad to join TWL, and that the spirit of those rules are not adhered to when feeding is occuring, I wholly believe that THE PUSHER made the right call.

Tanked and Interface did something incredibly stupid, in an incredibly obvious way, at an incredibly incriminating time. Feeding may have occured in the past by any number of squads, but we'll never know. The fact that they did it, got caught for it, went through with it with changing wins, and have a mound of evidence supporting it made TWL's decision an easy one.

Because this rule wasn't set in stone and because previous infractions by other squads could never be measured, the penalty was not disqualification from TWL completely, as Tanked is allowed to go into TWLJ and allowed to join TWLB if any squad drops out during the season. Meanwhile Interface is presumably allowed to join TWLJ if they can qualify as #1 if a TWLJ squad drops out.

I believe the TWL Ops made the right call, and let's hope next time around we can do some systemic changes in the TWD system and perhaps the TWL qualification system to address these issues more completely.

-Epi
P.S. I'm all for 16 squads, I don't know why it wasn't so. But if 16 were to get in Tanked and Elenya would make it, not Gravevine.

[Cig Smoke]

I agree too bc i am the guy who built most of the basing part of Tanked cept the few recruits recently, but saying alot of ur guys leaving and that u wont be much of a threat probably wont help ur case.