The Cram.

[CrvenBan]

The only problem with it that I have it that it sucks out all of skill and experience that should be needed to play one of the hardest ships to master for basing and that's shark (no fu, I play all ships).
It's sad to see that you can replace all of the good sharks, be it old-skewl or new, with people that only know how to rep and rotate and then serve as shields. Oh, and if those ppl are a bit laggy, it's perfect for sharking, but I am willing to bet 50 $ that every single older shark cringes when it has to spend game after game just repping and dying, and not being able to do anything else constructive, because it will turn out to be destructive instead (not unconstructive, daL, you newbie).

[geekbot]

I'd like to add to the topic: how have this season's changes have been at "disarming" the cram? I don't think I've read anything about that yet.

Personally, I enjoy playing the cram. One of the reasons FR battles and TDs are exciting is because it's a big reward to kick the enemy out of the flagroom. If it was *too* easy to get in, then TDs would be less meaningful. But I wouldn't mind having some of the "teeth" taken out of the cram.

* Longer respawn- I think the idea was to provide a hole (for jav, etc) between sharks. I think it does provide a slight hole but sharks are adjusting pretty well. Also I think the longer respawn hurts the push into entrance just as much because the attacking sharks and other ships aren't always there to provide the push- which makes change this somewhat of a wash.
* Timed game- Of the changes that have happened, this is the most subtle AND has the best potential for allowing teams to line. With a points race, lining had the major disadvantage of not racking up points as the enemy suicided into a rain of bullets. With a timed game, the points don't matter- so if there is a team that can excel at lining and keep the enemy out, they will be on even footing with those that cram. IMO, this hasn't happened yet because newer players (who make up a big portion of the basing community) have primarily seen and learned cramming. I think cram v. other styles debate can now be revisited because of timed games. Whoever came up with and implemented timed games is smart.
* New lanc- Changing the settings of the other ships also encourage using them. I don't see major changes happening but settings changes has led to some more experimentation in ?go base at least.

Reversing the terr burst pattern (to 2 up, 1 down) was also suggested and I think it would be the most effective in disarming the cram but that may be too radical of a change. I don't know how much this was tested but I'd love to see what it would do.

[Dabram]

What's this all about, breaking crams is easy.

[Due]

i don't know much of basing but with the lanc new settings it seems to be ezer to break the cram (5 lanc vs 5 spiders.)

[RabbitRapist]

it's also a lot easier to hold a cram with a lanc.

[Fit of Rage]

Reversing the terr burst pattern (to 2 up, 1 down) was also suggested and I think it would be the most effective in disarming the cram but that may be too radical of a change. I don't know how much this was tested but I'd love to see what it would do.

To my knowledge, this hasn't been tested yet. However, I would LOVE to give it a try in ?go base3 or something.

[Cig Smoke]

What's this all about, breaking crams is easy.

Not everyone has a bram on there squad!

[Stabwound]

* Longer respawn- I think the idea was to provide a hole (for jav, etc) between sharks. I think it does provide a slight hole but sharks are adjusting pretty well. Also I think the longer respawn hurts the push into entrance just as much because the attacking sharks and other ships aren't always there to provide the push- which makes change this somewhat of a wash.

* Timed game- Of the changes that have happened, this is the most subtle AND has the best potential for allowing teams to line. With a points race, lining had the major disadvantage of not racking up points as the enemy suicided into a rain of bullets. With a timed game, the points don't matter- so if there is a team that can excel at lining and keep the enemy out, they will be on even footing with those that cram. IMO, this hasn't happened yet because newer players (who make up a big portion of the basing community) have primarily seen and learned cramming. I think cram v. other styles debate can now be revisited because of timed games. Whoever came up with and implemented timed games is smart.

* New lanc- Changing the settings of the other ships also encourage using them. I don't see major changes happening but settings changes has led to some more experimentation in ?go base at least.

Reversing the terr burst pattern (to 2 up, 1 down) was also suggested and I think it would be the most effective in disarming the cram but that may be too radical of a change. I don't know how much this was tested but I'd love to see what it would do.

1. Longer respawn just makes you have to play a bit smarter. It's pretty much a non-issue for sharking, and the spiders just have to conserve and die a bit slower.

2. No one is going to line if they can just as easily cram. Less effort, and a lot more effective. A majority of the base players these days have never done anything but cram anyways, and even if you had an allstar 8 lineup from the lining days, they wouldn't beat an allstar 8 from cramming days.

3. It's cool that the lancaster got changed to be more useful, but I think the most subtle and effective way to break up 5 spiders/cramming would be to tweak the Spider itself. I said this 100x but making the spiders shoot a bit slower or do less damage would make a lot more teams opt for a jav/bird/lanc or two, plus help weaken the cram.

4. The inverted burst was dumb anyway, because it didn't do what it was supposed to do. I remember it was set up in some # arena, and within 5 tries I had figured out how to do all 3 bursts down the tube from the cram position.

[Fit of Rage]

Stab, that wasn't the point. The idea was to make it easier for the terrier to throw all three bursts UP from attacking the cram.

[Stabwound]

I am sure that in the original thread, it was supposed to be so that the terrier couldn't lob 3 bursts down as soon as there was an opening in their defense.

[Zerzera]

The original idea of that thread was to remove them entirely I believe. The burst was inverted in #mythrandir not so long ago. I didn't get to play a basegame with it though. If it would have such a large affect, why not copy the terrier into the levi's spot with inverted burst and have people pick their own flavor.
If your team sucks at attack, you pick the new terrier.

[bloodzombie]

why not copy the terrier into the levi's spot with inverted burst and have people pick their own flavor.
If your team sucks at attack, you pick the new terrier.

this is a really cool idea.. have two different terriers (you could make one blue if you wanted to be fancy, or leave it red so people aren't sure which one you are). choose your own bust pattern, I love it.

[bloodzombie]

Also, my knowledge of the cram is what myth said. Of course it was an evolution, but he's the first that I know of to try to get a team to defend that way.

[JeBu]

there should be more ship limits so there would be more styles and craming wouldnt be so powerful

[bloodzombie]

there should be more ship limits so there would be more styles and craming wouldnt be so powerful

I think the extra second delay did the job... I haven't seen any matches where anyone holds a cram for a whole game against a decent team.