Specials in TWL-B

[Poseidon]

hmm... "completely useless" .. i dunno. what if WB did 1499 energy dmg per bullet? this would one hit kill spid, shark, and take a terr down to 1 energy. i think WB would be a viable option as you would still get a lot of one-shots on terr but you'd also force the terr have to play differently.. not thrust as much, stay safer, not bullet, etc.

but ya its possible if it didnt straight up do at least 1500 energy per bullet that noone would use it

there is a lot more a WB does tho than just kill the terr. a lot of its utility in the flagroom is that it it simply is a threat and its difficult to kill, meaning its constantly distracting the enemy team and creating more space for its own team; it not being able to straight one-shot a terr might not be as big of a nerf as it seems, especially if it can still take a terr down to 1 energy, essentially meaning it would be just as much of a distraction and space creator as it is in its current iteration

[Nipple Nibbler]

The combination of one-shot kills, the agility of the ship and the regeneration all combined to make Warbird really overpowered in the right hands. For a perfect example, ease is averaging 8.5 teks per game according to TWD site. I have literally seen him tank 8 shots turn around and shoot, this isn't balanced.

To the comment about not changing things after TWL has already started: Lancs are surprisingly efficient at taking out warbirds, but for some odd reason they can't even attach without 10 bounty, shoot spider level bullets, and someone seriously messed up their shooting speed. So they have to mess with settings anyways.

Specials have always been a way for higher level squads to bully the shit out of lower level squads, with so few squads left on the ladder maybe it's time to balance the warbird.

[Turban]

any suggestions for changes for basing are always welcome and we will accept them with open mind. unfortunately the fact is that season did already start and making changes mid-season is something we wish to avoid unless it is absolutely necessary for league balance. In my personal opinion warbird is too strong, but is it overpowered to the point where we require immediate changes? not too sure about that one, but we will most certainly discuss this topic among all TWL operators.

[Poseidon]

yes definitely shouldnt make mid season changes, i was just floating an idea to consider for next season. personally i dont think WB is OP enuff to warrant a mid season change

[Falconeer]

See above my edited comment about numbers how long it takes to kill a warbird right now.

So you're making it ever so slightly easier to kill a warbird, while retaining the WBs 1 hit kill. Good changes i guess, but i don't even think it's *THAT* hard to kill a warbird as a spider already. I faced POID in base and didn't find him a problem anywhere, his end score was like 50-50. I was actually surprised a warbird could maintain a positive 1:1 ratio. If warbids were getting 2:1 ratios in base then I would say *maybe* there's a problem. But maybe I am not really understanding the challenge here... or the reason for wanting a nerf. Whatever if it's just a small recharge tweak it seems fine then. It means only the more skilled warbirds will succeed in base as opposed to anyone who got into a warbird.

[Jones]

5 spiders will win against 1 special every game (top squad vs top squad). this is why it's always 5v5 spiders and has been proven by top squads to be the best strategy to win games. if people are losing with 5 spiders vs 4 spiders and a wb then there is something wrong with the 5 spider team.

[Thrill]

I agree, and in my opinion that's a strong argument for nerfing the spider (in the future obviously). When ship selection is essentially dictated by the effectiveness of a ship/tactic and deviating from it means you are at a disadvantage, that is unhealthy game-play/imbalance.

[Poseidon]

nerf spider! nerf wb! more lancs!

also why when i click a thread it takes me to the bottom of the 1st page every time instead of the last post of the thread. tf is wrong w this forum

[Sulla]

agreed with thix. specials out or weaken wb

[7roll]

agreed with Sulla. specials out or weaken wb

[Dabram]

5 spiders will win against 1 special every game (top squad vs top squad). this is why it's always 5v5 spiders and has been proven by top squads to be the best strategy to win games. if people are losing with 5 spiders vs 4 spiders and a wb then there is something wrong with the 5 spider team.

this is indeed the truth, and regrettably what happened once pandora first specialized in the 5 spid line. 1 by 1 all 'top' basing squads had to give in and stop using wb, jav or wb+jav vs 5 spids, or they'd have no real chance on a title anymore.

i loved basing when being able to cope and react better to the chaos was what separated great from good players. that chaotic part (caused by aggro terr / sharks / laggy jav / wb) is now obviously frowned upon, also seen in all the changes that were proposed.. to me it's great that now the terr got made very boring, simply because the wb was forgotten about as an option by these 5v5 spiders-brainwashed people in charge, it's now suddenly discovered as a serious option again. I applaud Ease for wb'ing in twlb, hope he does it every game and mvps finals with 10+ teks.

however i realize i'm from a dif era, now a minority and not relevant anymore. so i guess in due time changes will be made so the best shark-duo + 5 spids will continue to reign supreme!

[Falconeer]

this is indeed the truth, and regrettably what happened once pandora first specialized in the 5 spid line. 1 by 1 all 'top' basing squads had to give in and stop using wb, jav or wb+jav vs 5 spids, or they'd have no real chance on a title anymore.

i loved basing when being able to cope and react better to the chaos was what separated great from good players. that chaotic part (caused by aggro terr / sharks / laggy jav / wb) is now obviously frowned upon, also seen in all the changes that were proposed.. to me it's great that now the terr got made very boring, simply because the wb was forgotten about as an option by these 5v5 spiders-brainwashed people in charge, it's now suddenly discovered as a serious option again. I applaud Ease for wb'ing in twlb, hope he does it every game and mvps finals with 10+ teks.

however i realize i'm from a dif era, now a minority and not relevant anymore. so i guess in due time changes will be made so the best shark-duo + 5 spids will continue to reign supreme!

From an era that knew that skill was equal to risk... and when you have league gameplay setup to control for multiple factors, you are then left with boring gameplay. the less things to worry about the less skill it takes. more ships, more specials, and more entrances increase the challenge and the ways to die. i see nothing wrong with having specials, shrap is dodgeable, and i'd even go so far as to add more than one entrance... but i'm someone who enjoys challenging gameplay.

i always joked about giving spider 1 repel each, and just having terrier and spider in there, and rename to spider-basing league. who needs mines anyway?

[Hulk]

Thix and Rage are only complaining because they are scared to play against it. If WB is so strong than why wasn't there one in the last 10 seasons of TWLB? Most of the community doesn't know how or has forgotten how to play against one. It does ruin the game but in the end if your team can't win vs on then you probably don't deserve to win. :\

Edit: Now the new terr changes kind of suck because you now know when terrs have a port or not

[Pressure]

Lot of ignorant people in here. Basically everyone who has commented so far are either completely irrelevant to TWLB 2019 or are on Thunder. What a surprise.

Turban the only one making sensible posts. Let's settle this with a captain's vote.

[Falconeer]

Lot of ignorant people in here. Basically everyone who has commented so far are either completely irrelevant to TWLB 2019 or are on Thunder. What a surprise.

Turban the only one making sensible posts. Let's settle this with a captain's vote.

Yeah that's how you present arguments, just bring up people and how many tourneys the won. What happens when the people get good? or win tournaments, will you find another flaw in who they are before you debate the ideas? Or just ignore them after that because you can't put them down?

Anyway, I agreed with turbans changes to wb since they weren't too extreme. However, my posts reflect that removing specials altogether seems extreme and dumb. Thought this was initially a teenage ANGST post that was made because you were mad at turbans changes, and proposing removing specials as a joke.