TWL-B Semi-Finals - Plade vs. Fire - Appeal GRANTED (Discussion)

[beam]

I like how everybody from Plade and Fire who is actually affected by the decision is like "ok I guess this isn't perfect but it's fair" and then we have Singer coming guns blazing from Rapid bench like "NAW MAN FK THIS SHT!!!!!!!" bro eat a snickers

[Jessup]

In summary .. Ogron for the 5th time loses a playoff game and yet again pulls out the old standard..

[Singer]

and I like how every points I've been making has no counter-arguments to them and just gets me a response of "chill, you even play bro?"

I've dealt with many litigated cases that goes through arbitration and trial and this whole process has been so unprofessional that I just can't help myself.

Next sunday is father's day and I'm not gonna be around to give a shit about whatever happens, but I'm hoping to come back to more forum drama with people crying about how they should have won even though they lost.

[skyforger]

In summary .. Ogron for the 5th time loses a playoff game and yet again pulls out the old standard..

L00L

[Gkyde1234]

Lettuce not overlook that thix was rated 5th out 6 terriers this season and is now in finals. What a come back

[ronaldinho]

Ridiculous but predictable. No one care about the rules, especially sysops apparently. I know if roles were reversed people would still bitch at Fire but… if, let say Zizzo, was making this appeal I know for sure the outcome would have been different. Let's be honest.

[Mythril]

if wirah made the decision then i think everyone should be fine with it. singer trying to drag his name through the mud in this thread is completely out of bounds and extremely unfair. when it comes down to who's contributed to the zone the most in the last 5-10 years, it's him and qan and nobody else is close.

plade was mostly annoyed that fire was demanding a forfeit and a permanent ban of dreamwin for what we believed was a bug. but obviously i don't think anyone wanted an invisible jav to be a part of that game either. thanks to league ops and coders for getting it fixed quickly before the finals.

thread was epic for a couple days. pc

[Nipple Nibbler]

This was obviously the only fair decision to make, that didn't completely screw over either of the teams. I mean almost 300 posts on that locked thread, everyone had a chance to speak their mind, can we just respect their decision and move on now please?

[Singer]

I'm just gonna add one more thing and then I'm done,

I'm a firm believer that people can change, I'm sure Wirah is a changed man from 15 years ago, he's for sure contributed to the game more than I ever did, same with some other people that's been found to cheat in the past.

But FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, if you're gonna have a renowned serial killer suddenly become the judge of homicide allegations, PLEASE don't have him say "we feel" three times in a row and completely disregard the rulebook and think that's okay.

And also, again, who the fuck is "we" in that statement - love the lack of clarity going on.

It's ridiculous and I had to call it out, that's it.

[Ardour]

7.05
In the event an unbiased appeal cannot be heard, the Dean of Staff and a System Operator will hear the appeal in addition to the TWL Ops.


Can we update the rules to specify that the context of what has been appealed for can be changed in the decision. For what they appealed for, has not been Granted. So you can't say it has been granted.

This means that every season someone can just create an appeal thread for every single match their team are in and then claim that the twl ops are bias. They don't need to supply info as to why. Then it will always fall down to a Sysop and dean of staff to decide. Then sysop and dean of staff have to figure out if anything actually happened during the said match that was unfair and decide on a random outcome that doesn't have to be a part of what the appeal was. Brilliant. A nice organised fair league we have finally got built up.

[Beast]

I feel wirah's call is very unbaised, and has no relation to fire, or plade (the man was last seen in a london meet up with most of monsters main starters) cant be more factual of an agreement, and decision then that. singer just come relax with me on the losers bench, I have a warm spot just for you buddy. hope you enjoy your fathers day, and your family is no where near seattle, MI, PA, or newyork

[Dreamwin]

This is again perfect representation of corruption in SS. Loving the snake tactics by zidane and the crew to go for harder punishment to achieve middle ground decision. My streak of being on losing side of appeal vs Thunder continues.

If I was as big nerd as Ogron I would go through old stuff and make a list of all appeals that has been handled in favour of Thunder members. Honestly I dont think they have lost even one ever since their core members became to receive powerful positions in leagues.

I wonder for the millionth time why we have rules at all if they are intepret in a way that fits certain group of people the best. Similar thing when referring to the past, Thunder changed their stance on multiple occasion. At first, whatever happened in past was important part of the arguement. Then when facts were provided about the past that didn't support Thunder's agenda, and even showed their captain using the same functionality, past didnt matter anymore.

Zidane/Ogron/Rab, I wish you all luck in the intense upcoming training period in your basements. Meanwhile, I will be enjoying the midsummer with friends and family alongside with many other europeans.

[Rab]

Zidane/Ogron/Rab, I wish you all luck in the intense upcoming training period in your basements. Meanwhile, I will be enjoying the midsummer with friends and family alongside with many other europeans.

thx bro, hf outside.

[Beast]

This is again perfect representation of corruption in SS. Loving the snake tactics by zidane and the crew to go for harder punishment to achieve middle ground decision. My streak of being on losing side of appeal vs Thunder continues.

If I was as big nerd as Ogron I would go through old stuff and make a list of all appeals that has been handled in favour of Thunder members. Honestly I dont think they have lost even one ever since their core members became to receive powerful positions in leagues.

I wonder for the millionth time why we have rules at all if they are intepret in a way that fits certain group of people the best. Similar thing when referring to the past, Thunder changed their stance on multiple occasion. At first, whatever happened in past was important part of the arguement. Then when facts were provided about the past that didn't support Thunder's agenda, and even showed their captain using the same functionality, past didnt matter anymore.

Zidane/Ogron/Rab, I wish you all luck in the intense upcoming training period in your basements. Meanwhile, I will be enjoying the midsummer with friends and family alongside with many other europeans.

you did a bigger exploit then anyone in years, but good, have fun, hope you aren't as invisible to your family irl, as you were in twlb playoffs

[Dabram]

First of all: I think any other decision would've caused too much drama. Also Singer, most of us know what Wirah/Mefod did in the past, but for the last years he's been one of the saviors of this zone with all the good shit he does. Let's not look back at who did what in their teenage years, mkay?
Last sunday was one of the most epic 3 rounders I've played in since many many years, so from a player's perspective I don't mind playing one more game like that, before heading to the finals. :laugh2:


On a more serious note:
The way this verdict came into place, does cause a problem though, which needs to be addressed for future seasons/appeals. The TWL rules on how to handle an appeal have been ignored in this process, begging you the wonder why we have these TWL rules? And this sets a very bad precedent for any future appeals, once we agree this is the "okay" way to go about it.

To explain:
The actual appeal made by Zidane reads:

Fire would have won the game had the cheat not occurred. So (1) we want Plade to forfeit for cheating. (2) Any Player found to be guilty of cheating to alter game play during a TWL match will result in up to a Class 3 Player Offense and Class 1B Team Offense as per rules. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...DFH0WI6w/edit#
This is the only outcome which does not incentivise future cheating. If a losing team can get a win or a replay by using a cheat, they’re going to do it every time.

On how to handle appeals the TW rules are quite clear (see doc in Zid's appeal).

Appeals will be handled by the TWL Operators collectively. The TWL Operators will vote on acceptance/denial of each appeal. Their votes, along with an explanation of their choice, will be public information. Any TWL Operator who has a conflict of interest in the appeal (i.e. is a member of a squad involved) will not be eligible to vote. At least 3 TWL Operators will need to vote, and the final decision on the appeal will be based on whichever vote has majority. In the event of a tie, the league head will provide the deciding vote unless they have an interest in which case a neutral third party will need to decide.
and "If an appeal is denied, the player making the appeal will not be eligible to play in the next game.

So now let's look at if these appeals were actually "granted":
Claim 1) "we want Plade to forfeit for cheating".
Verdict)

We are going to fix the bug, replay the round and move forwards

We feel that Fire losing to an exploit during a critical moment of a semi-final is not acceptable.

So the actual appeal for a forfeit for cheating = denied. However all of us can fully understand why the panel goes for a middle ground decision here to avoid major drama, and decides on a replay of r3. (Zidane made the mistake not to appeal for this like I stated from the beginning, however it's a fair decision so w/e.)

Worse is however the precedent now set by the second claim
Claim 2)

Any Player found to be guilty of cheating to alter game play during a TWL match will result in up to a Class 3 Player Offense and Class 1B Team Offense as per rules.

Which means, to those less familiar with the rulebook, I demand DW to be permanently banned from TWL participation. The verdict on this is quite clear:

To the people calling for dreamwin to suffer maximum punishment… dreamwin will not be banned from the zone or TWL. He is also eligible to participate in the replay

." So the panel clearly denies this appeal, yet also decides it's no issue when a captain (who is also a TWL op) makes an appeal to get a captain of another team perm banned from TWL participation? This now sets the precedent that whoever is going to appeal in the future: aim for the max! As you clearly don't have to worry about the rule that should prevent us from unjust appeals or slander being thrown around!

Now let me state very clearly that I want neither Zidane or DW to be forced to miss any of the TWL action this sunday or future games, but I do want to emphasize how important it is to have clear TW rules that we can fall back to, especially when it comes to difficult decisions like this. This is a perfect example of why we've had so many seasons ending in drama (see Stayon for a history on this). I think in this game it's always been a tradtion that those in charge have kept an opening for potential abuse for those with the privilege from their authority/popularity. In my days 2dragons with Light springs to mind. But the list is quite endless. Human nature and being in a position of power aren't the greatest combo, whaddayaknow? And now most of us are now well in our 30s, and more people are getting a bit too tired of always being on the other side of the coin on these decisions, when they just want to shoot some fucking spaceships on a sunday afternoon/evening... Surprised? And as it looks right now in the future there won't even be Paladen anymore for you to TWL against when you've ran everyone else out of the game with these antics, so what were you trying to gain again?

/clown out
peace love y'all and make it an epic game this sunday! :computer: