Twl Amateur League Thread

[Chuckle]

if an amateur league emerges im just going to play in that and win it every year

they will call me the sika of the minors

[nemiseph]

Its conceivable that we could have 3 shortened leagues per year. If we assume that there are 9 weeks per league (7 weeks for regular season & 2 for playoffs) then it would be easy; 9 weeks for league, 9 weeks off, 9 weeks for league, 9 weeks off, 9 weeks for league, 7 weeks off.

[Ara]

You can run the leagues at the same time. Winner of AML league should
fight the last spot holder in TWL right before TWL starts, what's so
difficult in that? No auto get ins, but a chance to qualify for TWL. Now that
there hasn't been an AML league before the squad that holds "9th spot" in
TWD should play vs the 8th best squad. If the 8th loses they are put into
AML instead of TWL, and vice versa. That's how it's done in ice hockey for
example.

This would make sure that neither one of the squads that have a chance of
getting into TWL are inactive, badly run, or just skillless. And squadhopping
during offseason wouldn't hurt the squads.

[Ara]

Run them in parallel. Bottom 2 teams from TWL get demoted to AML for the next season & top 2 teams from AML get promoted to TWL. Only allowing entrance to TWL by virtue of qualifying through AML will make squads think about staying alive more.

When there's only 8 squads in TWL dropping 2 last spot holders is a bit much,
don't you think?

[Zeebu]

You can run the leagues at the same time. Winner of AML league should
fight the last spot holder in TWL right before TWL starts, what's so
difficult in that? No auto get ins, but a chance to qualify for TWL. Now that
there hasn't been an AML league before the squad that holds "9th spot" in
TWD should play vs the 8th best squad. If the 8th loses they are put into
AML instead of TWL, and vice versa. That's how it's done in ice hockey for
example.

This would make sure that neither one of the squads that have a chance of
getting into TWL are inactive, badly run, or just skillless. And squadhopping
during offseason wouldn't hurt the squads.

this makes good sense

[nemiseph]

When there's only 8 squads in TWL dropping 2 last spot holders is a bit much,
don't you think?

Not at all. It will be more interesting to have 2 rather than 1 dropping out as there will be more of a fight to avoid demotion from TWL and to win promotion. from AML. As it gets to the end of the season more squads should have something to play for rather than just playing matches that don't mean a lot.

As an alternative our ideas could be combined so that 8th place in TWL can be automatically demoted & replaced by 1st place in AML while 7th place in TWL has a playoff against 2nd place in AML.

[Reaver]

this is assuming complete faith in the twd ladder as the best way to pick squads for twl. assuming completely that the #8 team is without a doubt better than the #9 team on the ladder, and that throught the season, the #8 team will fare better than the #9 team would have.

Absolutely, if it somehow happens that a squad that is really the 9th best squad get's into TWL over the 8th best squad, then the 9th best squad was really the 8th best squad, they have bad leadership or the 8th best squad lost some games right before deadlines. None of those excuses matter to me though, in the situation that you really were the 8th best squad and you lost a few games right before the qualification or you weren't high enough in points, it ultimately falls back on you. You should have been prepared ahead of time. The only valid point you bring up is that some squads may get high enough in points and then just sit on them, and not play matches anymore. This problem is easily solved with some rule changes in the TWD qualification system.

Additionally, why would we give a prize to the winner of AML, an amaetur league winner, the same prize that we have previously given to winners of TWL winners?

[DankNuggets]

Absolutely, if it somehow happens that a squad that is really the 9th best squad get's into TWL over the 8th best squad, then the 9th best squad was really the 8th best squad, they have bad leadership or the 8th best squad lost some games right before deadlines. None of those excuses matter to me though, in the situation that you really were the 8th best squad and you lost a few games right before the qualification or you weren't high enough in points, it ultimately falls back on you. You should have been prepared ahead of time. The only valid point you bring up is that some squads may get high enough in points and then just sit on them, and not play matches anymore. This problem is easily solved with some rule changes in the TWD qualification system.

well someone else brought up hydra from last season, who was in 8th place but didn't have what it took. It's a matter of opinion man, there's really no way to say which qualification system is better since we haven't used one of them and don't have any results to compare. If the ladder was so accurate, there'd be no reason for the league at all, just take your place in the ladder-#1 is #1 b/c the ladder is the best way to judge which teams are better.

Additionally, why would we give a prize to the winner of AML, an amaetur league winner, the same prize that we have previously given to winners of TWL winners?

i don't really think it matters. i wouldn't care, and most of the AML teams probably wouldn't care too much either. I really don't consider it a "prize". And i'm sure it would say AML winner anyway.



Edit: i still think you're just getting pissy because you don't want to grant 1 team the fun of winning a league and participating in something that's more on their level of competition (since they won the other league - that is to say they are better than all the other squads in that league). Do you even play anymore? Are you on that #8 team? Are you afraid of somehow getting "cheated" out of TWL? Are you afraid that whichever AML team that makes it into TWL will beat your team? Are you afraid that they might win it? There's virtually no negatives to this, it only makes things more fun and involves more people so that hopefully the league will get bigger and more competitive over time.

[Reaver]

well someone else brought up hydra from last season, who was in 8th place but didn't have what it took. It's a matter of opinion man, there's really no way to say which qualification system is better since we haven't used one of them and don't have any results to compare. If the ladder was so accurate, there'd be no reason for the league at all, just take your place in the ladder-#1 is #1 b/c the ladder is the best way to judge which teams are better.



i don't really think it matters. i wouldn't care, and most of the AML teams probably wouldn't care too much either. I really don't consider it a "prize". And i'm sure it would say AML winner anyway.



Edit: i still think you're just getting pissy because you don't want to grant 1 team the fun of winning a league and participating in something that's more on their level of competition (since they won the other league - that is to say they are better than all the other squads in that league). Do you even play anymore? Are you on that #8 team? Are you afraid of somehow getting "cheated" out of TWL? Are you afraid that whichever AML team that makes it into TWL will beat your team? Are you afraid that they might win it? There's virtually no negatives to this, it only makes things more fun and involves more people so that hopefully the league will get bigger and more competitive over time.

Your first point is incorrect as well, the ladder doesn't represent the best in TW, everyone knows this. If it did, you're right we wouldn't even need TWL, but the difference is that anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows where they need to be point-wise in order to qualify.

I think you're just being pissy because you want to give people something they don't deserve because you'll probably end up being one of the people in AML. I have no bias, it doesn't really effect me because I'll beat the 8th and 9th best squads either way. I'll be in one of the best squads in the zone just like every other season.

The negatives have already been discussed in length, see the previous posts. I'm all for putting more competitive games into the system and encouraging people to get better to make the games more fun, but you run the same risk as what has happened in elim. Anytime you make something so easy people don't need to work for it, it loses it's muster. Same thing happened with elim when they lowered the usage requirements (well that wasn't the only reason, but It was still a significant factor).

[Exalt]

Your first point is incorrect as well, the ladder doesn't represent the best in TW, everyone knows this. If it did, you're right we wouldn't even need TWL, but the difference is that anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows where they need to be point-wise in order to qualify.

I think you're just being pissy because you want to give people something they don't deserve because you'll probably end up being one of the people in AML. I have no bias, it doesn't really effect me because I'll beat the 8th and 9th best squads either way. I'll be in one of the best squads in the zone just like every other season.

The negatives have already been discussed in length, see the previous posts. I'm all for putting more competitive games into the system and encouraging people to get better to make the games more fun, but you run the same risk as what has happened in elim. Anytime you make something so easy people don't need to work for it, it loses it's muster. Same thing happened with elim when they lowered the usage requirements (well that wasn't the only reason, but It was still a significant factor).

so far reaver your the ONLY one ive heard from that is against the auto-qual, so to be fair, ill ask you your opinion on how things should be done

What do you think should be a prize for winning AML? Give a reason for these squads to play in this league, a "prize" i guess you want to call it. If these squads had played all the other squads in the league, played in the playoffs in that respected league, and won every game to be named champion of AML, should they not recieve something for it?

Reaver i need you too look at the past 5 seasons (which you could look at all of them if you'd like, but lets stick to five) of TWL. Was the 8th best team usually ever good? How many times were there squads going 0-10 or close to it in those seasons? How much competition did they give? Have you ever thought "hey i bet there is a better squad that could have gotten in TWL and given more competition"? Have you ever been mad that the other squads in your TWL division are getting free wins due to either forfeits (which happened ALOT last season) or ez wins vs bad squads?

If a squad wins in AML, does all that long season stuff, wins in the playoffs, and then stays together with the core roster for the remainder of offseason till the next TWL, why would they not be better than the 8th place squad of ANY of the last 8 seasons?

Do Tell.

[Izor]

well lets say we had squads like qs, diso, style, thunder, pirates, fuck if i know whos around now but hypothetically 8 squads on that level in TWL, and then 8 squads like paladen, NC17, Spastic, Brainwave, etc in amateur league. Are you saying that a squad like Spastic has proven themselves capable of competing at the next highest level by beating those other squads?

[Exalt]

well lets say we had squads like qs, diso, style, thunder, pirates, fuck if i know whos around now but hypothetically 8 squads on that level in TWL, and then 8 squads like paladen, NC17, Spastic, Brainwave, etc in amateur league. Are you saying that a squad like Spastic has proven themselves capable of competing at the next highest level by beating those other squads?

with exalt on spastic, then fuck yes

[Lag.Com]

I'm against the autoqualify for the reasons Reaver stated, I just thought it was silly to re-state them so I didn't. I'm still in favour of an amateur league (though everyone is amateur, because nobody gets paid, english nitpick).

[Reaver]

so far reaver your the ONLY one ive heard from that is against the auto-qual, so to be fair, ill ask you your opinion on how things should be done

What do you think should be a prize for winning AML? Give a reason for these squads to play in this league, a "prize" i guess you want to call it. If these squads had played all the other squads in the league, played in the playoffs in that respected league, and won every game to be named champion of AML, should they not recieve something for it?

Reaver i need you too look at the past 5 seasons (which you could look at all of them if you'd like, but lets stick to five) of TWL. Was the 8th best team usually ever good? How many times were there squads going 0-10 or close to it in those seasons? How much competition did they give? Have you ever thought "hey i bet there is a better squad that could have gotten in TWL and given more competition"? Have you ever been mad that the other squads in your TWL division are getting free wins due to either forfeits (which happened ALOT last season) or ez wins vs bad squads?

If a squad wins in AML, does all that long season stuff, wins in the playoffs, and then stays together with the core roster for the remainder of offseason till the next TWL, why would they not be better than the 8th place squad of ANY of the last 8 seasons?

Do Tell.

You're attacking the strawman. I agree that competition in TWL has been very lackluster this past season and it might be as well this season. But that doesn't mean that the solution is to start giving out free TWL entries to squads that don't deserve a spot in TWL (In theory, if they deserved a spot in TWL they would have been the 8th best squad and not the 9th). In fact, that's kind of how we got to this problem in the first place. Squads that weren't TWL caliber were in TWL.

Point is, back when I started playing everything was earned, even elim was competitive and usage req's were higher. Nowadays people just want to be given everything on a silver platter. I'm not trying to say that the only problem we have is that things are too easy to get nowadays, it's just one reason on a list of many for why we're having competition problems.

As for a reward for AML, how about the same reward the original AML, in chaos zone gives? If you win AML then you get your squadname on the same map that squad's that win TWL have their names on, only below it, and not the individual names of the players, just the name of the squad. This should be more than enough of a reward considering how much effort is going to be required to win AML.

[RiiStar]

As for a reward for AML, how about the same reward the original AML, in chaos zone gives? If you win AML then you get your squadname on the same map that squad's that win TWL have their names on, only below it, and not the individual names of the players, just the name of the squad. This should be more than enough of a reward considering how much effort is going to be required to win AML.

Perhaps, i could offer full hosting/website space

> winner.subspacesquad.net / own domain fully hosted <

I have offered this for TWL also in the past, not that it was taken.