Twl Amateur League Thread

[Exalt]

need some vet squads recruiting like 1-2 really active pubbers and train them instead of just stealing ppl off other squads so we can get these mother fucker active again i see like 20-25 same pubbers in pub playing day n day and only if a squad would just come ask them to join and train them theres 1 more person for twd but no one taking the risk of training sumone waiting for fucking rejected basres or sumone to train instead.

back to topic: how would teams for tw amateur league be chosen since tragik said its gonna be hosted before twl ? so the winner of twal gets a spot in twl.

its not hosted before twl, and i dont understand why hes saying that... clearly you did not read the first post that had the rules on it

AML would begin AFTER twl starts and all the TWL squads are chosen

[Foreign]

Once the new TWL website it completed it wouldnt be hard to duplicate it in some way.

I have a question how is AML going to be sceduled? (what day will games be played)

There's a new web site being developed?! And it isn't being developed generically enough to support n leagues?! Heavens.

[Reaver]

if TWL only had 8 squads, then only the top 8 squads should be there. How does winning AML, which doesn't include any of the top 8 squads, demonstrate a squad is one of the top 8? Would make more sense to allow the 8th place squad in TWL an automatic spot.

This is correct. Nobody has yet to provide an argument that shows that this is incorrect or improper thought to use here. Winning AML isn't supposed to be just as good as winning TWL, that's why it's AML. It's for people to get their foot in the door and try something greater than TWD and give them hope to be able to play with the big dogs in TWL someday. Autoqualification for winning AML is silly and doesn't make any sense.

[DankNuggets]

This is correct. Nobody has yet to provide an argument that shows that this is incorrect or improper thought to use here. Winning AML isn't supposed to be just as good as winning TWL, that's why it's AML. It's for people to get their foot in the door and try something greater than TWD and give them hope to be able to play with the big dogs in TWL someday. Autoqualification for winning AML is silly and doesn't make any sense.

not really, because theoretically the best team wins the AML. Who's the best team? the team that would have been that #8 spot. This assumes 2 things 2 ways: 1- at the time of TWL invite, the best 8 squads have the best 8 positions on the ladder, 2- the best squad wins AML. The first assumption is what we currently follow, the second would be the one proposed in the automatic bid. The questions is which assumption is better? I think a squad that wins a league where they play like competition and come out on top after a lot of games and play offs is better than a squad that could either play both good OR a bunch of bad teams to earn that #8 spot at the invite.

so is it better to win a league and playoff against predetermined competition?

or is it better to win an unknown # of games (at least the min) agaisnt unknown competition?


Also this wouldn't allow last minute teams to feed off of others to move from #9 to #8.

[Zeebu]

you kinda got the point of what reaver was trying to say.

if we back off the number of squads that actually get into TWL (probably 8) and then select the best 8 squads, then the winner of AML shouldnt really be getting into twl. unfortunately, the system we have that selects our teams kinda blows (twd ladder, but it is getting better i think). if you find a way to select the top 8 squads for a league (not just points, thats stupid) then the winner of the AML should realistically be the 9th best squad in that league.

if the AML goes and runs really well (teams dont drop out and other bullshit), then i wouldnt mind if the winner gets a bid to TWL, or at least heavily considered when squads are chosen. but, rules would have to be in place that keep much of the roster together and such (similar to how the TWL auto-qual rule was)

so, what im trying to say: if we get a good system of choosing TWL squads, im in support of favoring the AML squad for the next TWL. if we keep the same crappy points-only system we've got in place, i wouldnt even consider it. and yes, i know mirr proposed a new system, it just hasint happened yet, so i still consider the point-only thing to be what we have. and it kinda sucks.

[DankNuggets]

ok i see what's going on here...

the current proposed method of having the AML running concurrently, but starting after the TWL invite, is the problem. Whereas this way would pick the top 8 teams and then the winner of the AML should be 9th team out of the ladder.

I was thinking along the lines of the AML running before the TWL invite, with the TWL invite picking the top 7 teams from the ladder and the 8th team being the AML champ.

Only problem i see with this is that you'd have to hope that the ladder was pretty set before the AML started, i.e, no AML team would potentially qualify normally for TWL, since they'd still probably be playing twd, and could move up to top 8 spots. That would push a potential #7 spot down to #8, out of TWL, and out of AML, stuck in limbo. You could always invite the 7 right before AML, and have them just wait around for it to end, but that'd be asking a lot of those 7 squads to mantain the same roster and such for a month or two.

[Reaver]

not really, because theoretically the best team wins the AML. Who's the best team? the team that would have been that #8 spot. This assumes 2 things 2 ways: 1- at the time of TWL invite, the best 8 squads have the best 8 positions on the ladder, 2- the best squad wins AML. The first assumption is what we currently follow, the second would be the one proposed in the automatic bid. The questions is which assumption is better? I think a squad that wins a league where they play like competition and come out on top after a lot of games and play offs is better than a squad that could either play both good OR a bunch of bad teams to earn that #8 spot at the invite.

so is it better to win a league and playoff against predetermined competition?

or is it better to win an unknown # of games (at least the min) agaisnt unknown competition?


Also this wouldn't allow last minute teams to feed off of others to move from #9 to #8.

Listen, I can't explain this any clearer

if you were to have an AML season and a TWL season, who would the best 9 squads be?

1) the winner of LD
2) the runner up
3) etc
all the way down to the squad that placed last in TWL
8) Last place squad in TWL
9) winner of AML

It's as simple as that, the winner of AML shouldn't be better than the worst player in TWL, otherwise the squad that won AML should have been in TWL. So again, why would a squad that's worse than the top 8 squads that did qualify for TWL get a spot over one of them? It makes zero sense.

[Ricko]

okay lets put this into perspective:

Top 8 squads get picked for this seasons TWL (last years finalists, twl cup winner, 5-6 other squads from twd ladder).

Next 8-10 squads get put into AML after the 8 TWL squads are picked.

TWL and AML run almost parallel.

Winner of AML is invited to the NEXT twl which wouldnt be for 4-6 months.

What the benefit of winning AML is is that you get a TWL spot, you complain that they'd be the worst squad come the next twl, but think how many good players would want to join that squad as they have auto-qualified for the next twl (the captains have to remain the same for next season though) and from winning AML the squad would pick up another 4-6 months experience as a team together. So lets list the benefits for AML winner:
- Auto-qualification to TWL next season.
- More experienced players will want to join the squad for the next twl season, so roster improvements will be inevitable so they SHOULD be good enough for the next twl.
- Necessary for the squad to stay alive to be allowed into TWL next season - promotes squad loyalty and longevity and the squad will improve with months of experience behind them (in theory).

I understand peoples concern that the winner of AML should be allowed into the next TWL but I see only benefits for it, if the squad could not after winning AML advance to TWL quality by the next season i'd be very suprised. Also - this is a dumbed down version of the pyramid league system in which at the end of the season squads are promoted/demoted - which received a great deal of popularity when suggested on the forums not too long ago.

[Darkmoor]

...the captains have to remain the same for next season though) and from winning AML the squad would pick up another 4-6 months experience as a team together.

Squads change a lot over the 4 to 6 months (except for a few die hard squads), so just having the same captains is not necessarily even close to the same squad. More restrictions should apply.

[DankNuggets]

It's as simple as that, the winner of AML shouldn't be better than the worst player in TWL, otherwise the squad that won AML should have been in TWL.

this is assuming complete faith in the twd ladder as the best way to pick squads for twl. assuming completely that the #8 team is without a doubt better than the #9 team on the ladder, and that throught the season, the #8 team will fare better than the #9 team would have.

So again, why would a squad that's worse than the top 8 squads that did qualify for TWL get a spot over one of them? It makes zero sense.

read my post above yours. I'm more in favor of the 8th place being determined by winning the AML, that is the team that would normally be 8th, now has to win a league to get in. Might even work out so that top 8 get in and then 2 slots from AML. The point is, it's just making the border teams work harder to prove that they should be in TWL, since there's so much worry over underqualified teams getting in.

afterall, if you're worried about underqualified teams, why not make them win a league first, instead of giving them a couple of months to play 20 games against shitty opponents, sit on their score, and qualify as the #8 team in TWL.

[Exalt]

this is assuming complete faith in the twd ladder as the best way to pick squads for twl. assuming completely that the #8 team is without a doubt better than the #9 team on the ladder, and that throught the season, the #8 team will fare better than the #9 team would have.

and as we have seen for the past who knows how many seasons.. lets say 3 to be safe on the low side, we have shown that the 9th place team on the TWD ladders is almost ALWAYS better than the 8th place team

the 9th place team usually loses more because they play far better competition, and the 8th place team wins more because they play far shittier competition

lets look at last season, who was the last squad picked in TWDD ladder? Hydra

who was the highest NOT picked squad on TWDD ladder? Quicksand

who dissolved after like 5 games all losses during TWL? Hydra

who would have been far better in TWL? Quicksand


point and case, prove me wrong otherwise your entire arguement is blown to hell

[HateTheFake]

okay lets put this into perspective:

Top 8 squads get picked for this seasons TWL (last years finalists, twl cup winner, 5-6 other squads from twd ladder).

Next 8-10 squads get put into AML after the 8 TWL squads are picked.

TWL and AML run almost parallel.

Winner of AML is invited to the NEXT twl which wouldnt be for 4-6 months.

What the benefit of winning AML is is that you get a TWL spot, you complain that they'd be the worst squad come the next twl, but think how many good players would want to join that squad as they have auto-qualified for the next twl (the captains have to remain the same for next season though) and from winning AML the squad would pick up another 4-6 months experience as a team together. So lets list the benefits for AML winner:
- Auto-qualification to TWL next season.
- More experienced players will want to join the squad for the next twl season, so roster improvements will be inevitable so they SHOULD be good enough for the next twl.
- Necessary for the squad to stay alive to be allowed into TWL next season - promotes squad loyalty and longevity and the squad will improve with months of experience behind them (in theory).

I understand peoples concern that the winner of AML should be allowed into the next TWL but I see only benefits for it, if the squad could not after winning AML advance to TWL quality by the next season i'd be very suprised. Also - this is a dumbed down version of the pyramid league system in which at the end of the season squads are promoted/demoted - which received a great deal of popularity when suggested on the forums not too long ago.

i dont agree in my experience once a squad makes twl, every fucking squad hopping idiot will want to join them, this causes more squads to dissolve then all else.

[HateTheFake]

and as we have seen for the past who knows how many seasons.. lets say 3 to be safe on the low side, we have shown that the 9th place team on the TWD ladders is almost ALWAYS better than the 8th place team

the 9th place team usually loses more because they play far better competition, and the 8th place team wins more because they play far shittier competition

lets look at last season, who was the last squad picked in TWDD ladder? Hydra

who was the highest NOT picked squad on TWDD ladder? Quicksand

who dissolved after like 5 games all losses during TWL? Hydra

who would have been far better in TWL? Quicksand


point and case, prove me wrong otherwise your entire arguement is blown to hell

agreed i think twl should be top ten twdd squads and the rest go to twla

[nemiseph]

Run them in parallel. Bottom 2 teams from TWL get demoted to AML for the next season & top 2 teams from AML get promoted to TWL. Only allowing entrance to TWL by virtue of qualifying through AML will make squads think about staying alive more.

[Zeebu]

Run them in parallel. Bottom 2 teams from TWL get demoted to AML for the next season & top 2 teams from AML get promoted to TWL. Only allowing entrance to TWL by virtue of qualifying through AML will make squads think about staying alive more.

this wouldnt work all that bad if we ran about 3 shortened leagues a year