10 TWLD squads plz

[DankNuggets]

A bit confused on the new idea, but I like it.

so to clarify on the Chaos zone themed scheme:

There's 16 teams, 10 rounds.

Teams are listed 1-16, and play the next person up on the ladder; 1v2,...,15v16 ?

Teams are re-orderd after each week? With the possiblity to move up 1 rank per week? A total possiblity of gaining 10 spots or losing 10 spots: 16->6 (in playoffs) or 1->11 (out of playoffs) ??

Some how teams won't play each other 2 weeks in a row? I kinda got lost at this point. But maybe they don't switch one place for W/L ? For example: if there are no upsets, in 3 rounds, you'd be playing the same match up. If all the games are upsets, then you'd be playing a rematch the next week (2 rnds).

If you keep up with that most-unlikely pattern of W/L, the never-upset scenario repeats itself over every two weeks (each team would play like 5 rematches), but the always-upset gets pretty interesting and there are still about 5 rematches in a 10 round set up.

Pretty much every way i tried it there are going to be a good many rematches if there aren't a lot of upsets.

This is completely different if you're going by W/L record to reorder the teams after each round, but that would imply a much bigger jump than 1 rank per round.

I'm just confused on how the reordering would happen, and how you'd avoid playing 3-5 rematches in one season (without handling each game individually -- by scheduling alone)

[Static Burn]

Teams are re-orderd after each week? With the possiblity to move up 1 rank per week? A total possiblity of gaining 10 spots or losing 10 spots: 16->6 (in playoffs) or 1->11 (out of playoffs) ??

Teams are re-ordered each week by Win/Loss and then +/-. Teams can move up or down any number of ranks each week, not just 1.

Some how teams won't play each other 2 weeks in a row?

Teams who face each other will usually move up and down enough after the game that they won't be next to each other in the rankings the following week. When this does happen the schedule with move on to the next team, ie. 1v2 is a repeat matchup, so it'll go 1v3, 2v4, 5v6, etc.


Like Veetee said one of the downsides to this system is that teams have repeat matchups, example: the #1 squad in SVS league will probably play the #2,#3, and #4 place teams 2 times each during this season. I still think however it's better to have that than have a lot of blowout games or only allowing 8 squads in the league.

[raizin]

lets not lose focus of this thread.

Extend the squads allowed in TWL, or make a seperate league for the rest of us. Obviously with multiple threads and 100's of posts, people want it to happen so lets do it.

Lets get ^^^^ approved, then make threads on how to run the tournament.

[Delectable]

You need one man...



His name is...




Slowbob

[Reaver]

I agree with what Voth was saying a few pages back. The two goals people want to achieve are polar opposites. Either you want TWL to be a competitive league and actually require some effort to get in, or you want it to include just about anyone that throws a squad into twd and plays some games to qualify. If you increase the number of squads allowed into the league then you degrade TWL's competition even more, but if you don't then you exclude possible up-and-coming players for TWL seasons to come. I still think an AML type system, similar to what they have in chaos zone, is one of the more effective methods for dealing with both of these problems.

[Lame]

I'd say one of the problems is also that it takes a while before a TWL season will start. I can agree to make it more competitive by having less squads, but if you'd had to wait for more than a year for 'another try'... (time till new season starts + seasontime).

My suggestion is:

- TWL with only top squads which qualified (sep - nov)
- Another league in which all squads participate. (feb - may)

[Ricko]

nothing will happen this TWL season (in regards to an introduction of an AML or pyramid system, hell even an increase in squads), you heard it here first (although I'm probably not the only one thinking it).

[Capital Knockers]

nothing will happen this TWL season (in regards to an introduction of an AML or pyramid system, hell even an increase in squads), you heard it here first (although I'm probably not the only one thinking it).

I think it'd be really silly to not at least have the squads increase. I see very few people against the idea of 10 squads rather than 8. I mean, keep 8 in LJ, and LB, but LD has alot more potential contenders. I don't think increasing the squads by 2 is a very difficult thing to do (correct me if I'm wrong) and with this much support behind the idea, it would be pretty blatantly ignorant to completey disregard something this many people want without a really good reason.

[Voth]

I think it'd be really silly to not at least have the squads increase. I see very few people against the idea of 10 squads rather than 8. I mean, keep 8 in LJ, and LB, but LD has alot more potential contenders. I don't think increasing the squads by 2 is a very difficult thing to do (correct me if I'm wrong) and with this much support behind the idea, it would be pretty blatantly ignorant to completey disregard something this many people want without a really good reason.

Knockers: I like you, really I do, but you're seeing this from a completely biased point of view. You want more squads in TWLD because that's the league that you play, and two more squads allowed in is two more chances for your squad to get in. Here's the thing: TWL really should not be easy to get into. It should be an accomplishment in itself to participate in TWL. This gives the up-and-coming players a goal to shoot for.

[HateTheFake]

Knockers: I like you, really I do, but you're seeing this from a completely biased point of view. You want more squads in TWLD because that's the league that you play, and two more squads allowed in is two more chances for your squad to get in. Here's the thing: TWL really should not be easy to get into. It should be an accomplishment in itself to participate in TWL. This gives the up-and-coming players a goal to shoot for.

i would like to see twld and twlj given more squads because theres almost 3 times as many that twbd, i think you can have much more competition there then in twbd when it comes down to it.

[DankNuggets]

I think we have completely different connotations for the word competitive:

Those that think competitive means that all the squads are on the same level and equally able to win or lose.

Those that think competitive means there are more squads competing, and greater variety, leading to more possible outcomes.


I mean it's fair to argue either way, both are definitions of the word. (2 maybe being the only one that's exclusively the former)

com·pet·i·tive Audio Help /kəmˈpɛtɪtɪv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhm-pet-i-tiv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective

1. of, pertaining to, involving, or decided by competition: competitive sports; a competitive examination.
2. well suited for competition; having a feature that makes for successful competition: a competitive price.
3. having a strong desire to compete or to succeed.
4. useful to a competitor; giving a competitor an advantage: He was careful not to divulge competitive information about his invention.

[DankNuggets]

Knockers: I like you, really I do, but you're seeing this from a completely biased point of view. You want more squads in TWLD because that's the league that you play, and two more squads allowed in is two more chances for your squad to get in. Here's the thing: TWL really should not be easy to get into. It should be an accomplishment in itself to participate in TWL. This gives the up-and-coming players a goal to shoot for.

you could equally say that you have just as strong a bias to disallow two more teams in the competition, increasing your odds significantly to win or make the playoffs...

which is what it comes down to with most of the anti-10 team arguments.
the "lack of competitiveness" is complete conjecture, and quite arrogant.

Once again, why place so much emphasis on getting into TWL? Put that emphasis on winning TWL. Is it just so you can have something to brag about when you didn't win anything?

[PaulOakenfold]

Knockers: I like you, really I do, but you're seeing this from a completely biased point of view. You want more squads in TWLD because that's the league that you play, and two more squads allowed in is two more chances for your squad to get in. Here's the thing: TWL really should not be easy to get into. It should be an accomplishment in itself to participate in TWL. This gives the up-and-coming players a goal to shoot for.

It should be an accomplishment to participate, but it shouldn't hold an elitist attitude.

[Voth]

you could equally say that you have just as strong a bias to disallow two more teams in the competition, increasing your odds significantly to win or make the playoffs...

which is what it comes down to with most of the anti-10 team arguments.
the "lack of competitiveness" is complete conjecture, and quite arrogant.

Once again, why place so much emphasis on getting into TWL? Put that emphasis on winning TWL. Is it just so you can have something to brag about when you didn't win anything?

Let me make this clear. I am on a basing squad which puts emphasis on training new players and being as competitive as we can whilst maintaining our training nature. We are lucky enough to have a core of veterans/skilled players who are committed to this cause, so we do fairly well in TWL. So don't start trying to say that I'm an elitist, arrogant, or trying to "incease my odds of winning." The fact is a squad like NC17 will not win TWLD or any other league for that matter, and having them in the same league as squads like Stray and Thunder not only annoys the better squads, it discourages NC17 because all they are doing is showing up week in and week out and losing.

[Capital Knockers]

Let me make this clear. I am on a basing squad which puts emphasis on training new players and being as competitive as we can whilst maintaining our training nature. We are lucky enough to have a core of veterans/skilled players who are committed to this cause, so we do fairly well in TWL. So don't start trying to say that I'm an elitist, arrogant, or trying to "incease my odds of winning." The fact is a squad like NC17 will not win TWLD or any other league for that matter, and having them in the same league as squads like Stray and Thunder not only annoys the better squads, it discourages NC17 because all they are doing is showing up week in and week out and losing.

I completely agree a squad like NC17 shouldn't be making twl, and if you look at the ladder, they won't. I do have a partial bias, yeah I'm not trying to hide that. However, I make this arguement not just because of that bias. I've brought a great many points to the table that you've chosen to overlook. Whiskeyjack, along with another 3 or 4 squads would be perfectly fine competition in twl-d and the majority of the community knows it. Why lower it that much? You aren't ruining TWL by letting another 2 squads in one of 3 divisions. Especially when you consider that DD/LD has many more squads capable of playing at a TWL caliber. If there were honestly 10-12 basing squads you could say you wouldn't mind facing (or would be a good contender) in TWL-B, wouldn't you want that? It's healthier for the zone in total. People need to stop clutching twl like some poor frighten child and realize something.

DankNuggets makes a great point. It shouldn't be all about MAKING twl. How about making the playoffs, or actually winning?