TWL Update Thread

[Stayon]

im glad I dont have to type more then I need to..so this is actually good..enforcing a "4 spid rule" would be forcing people to play against their wish, this away you give an option to people..you give option to those you want something different and you dont force others what others want to see. and look im dice and im saying this...uuu im so scared of change..

and I actually see an use for the two terrs with those allowed 6 changes..

[Dwopple]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to call bullshit right about here.

I just read through the other thread, and this two terrs deal was hardly "talked about," unless you're referring to the few people saying "THIS IDEA SUCKS" after you posted some ?go base results. Even then, there was not a single instance of this "2 terr" limit being specifically referred to, just a removal of ship limits in general.

People were playing 2 terrs in ?go base yesterday and there was only complaining. I refuse to believe that this was at all tested properly. Let's face it: this was a random change on a whim.

I'm not crusading against changes to TWL in general. I am, however, against arbitrarily making changes like this before TWL. I see from one of your other threads in this forum that you have been a TWL SMod since April. Why did you not make these kinds of changes back then, rather than right before TWL?

agreeeeeeeeeeed


as i keep saying, there is not enough time to throw this out there and have it work properly for TWL, you gave us an ENTIRE offseason to work with the no blocks in cram, yes at first ppl were like 'how the fuk can we hold this cram?' but no 3 months later, we have found ways to cope with it and hold longer crams....the same idea is NEEDED for this 2 terr idea....not enough TWLB teams 8v8 in ONE MONTH to get a good feel for this..

[Dabram]

wow, you are genuinely afraid that your 5-spiders lineup might get owned by a team that's going to take a gamble and use 2 terriers, purely because you're inexperienced playing against something different than vs 5 spiders?
that's pretty funny to me, i forgot how difficult it is for this generation's basers to adapt to a slight change.. though i now understand why you're being so angry with this sudden change, while old school players like stayon couldn't care less..

[Doc Flabby]

I dont understand why people have got so caught up on this issue about 2 terriers.

Its one of the least exciting changes and most easily reversed.

I doubt it will even be used in TWL given the reaction.

[Dwopple]

wow, you are genuinely afraid that your 5-spiders lineup might get owned by a team that's going to take a gamble and use 2 terriers, purely because you're inexperienced playing against something different than vs 5 spiders?
that's pretty funny to me, i forgot how difficult it is for this generation's basers to adapt to a slight change.. though i now understand why you're being so angry with this sudden change, while old school players like stayon couldn't care less..

i have accepted that basing is in need of change, but if you cant read, this isnt the time, this isnt something that should just be thrown out a month before TWL, it needs time to work up strategies, etc.


now stfu and sit in the corner

[Stabwound]

I'm not concerned about the change in itself, but I'm concerned about the way it was gone about. Removing the blocks was whined about, but it was given enough testing for people to ultimately see that it was actually a good idea. I certainly like it, and I bet most people do. Maybe people would feel the same way about allowing 2 terriers if it was given as much time to be tested as the map change was?

Also, enforcing a 4-spider limit is the wrong way to go about it. I've been saying this for years. If people are using 5 spiders then there is a reason for it. Perhaps that reason might be that spiders are overpowered? Or maybe the other ships just aren't good enough? Whatever the case may be, forcing people to play a certain lineup is stupid, and it's not getting to the root of the problem. It's ridiculous to say, "You are forced to play a warbird now! Look how fun and exciting we've made the game now!!" Give people a reason to play that warbird, but don't force them to.

As far has having no ship limits at all, that would be ideal in a perfect world. However, there are a few issues with that. For one, the current map (flagroom, specifically) is far too small to accommodate multiple ships other than spiders. The map would have to be radically changed if this was going to be put into effect. Then, there's another problem with that: the teams would be too small to fill up such a large map. Besides that, no squad is going to seriously use anything but 5 spiders, other than squads with lag abuser javelins. I remember Disoblige at the beginning of last season, talking about how cool their wb+jav strategy was. Really worked great, didn't it guys?

Secondly, let's face it: Subspace is an old game. Lag already has a profound effect on games because of the way the client/server works. How many times have you saw a person blow up for no apparent reason, but on their screen they had hit a burst? How about the times when your jav shoots a bomb, and everyone dies except the terr, who saw no bomb at all on their screen? Do you know how much different (and better) the game would be if everybody saw the exact same thing on their screens? Having even more bursts and bombs and whatnot is going to make the game even more random. You might as well go play Snakes & Ladders. Ideally, TWL would be played on a LAN, but that's obviously not going to happen.

The only reason I dislike javelins is because the only ones that are considered "good" are the players that abuse lag and the bug with rockets+repels. Against an evenly matched team, a warbird is mostly irrelevant, and so is a javelin that doesn't abuse the fuck out of lag. I'd ask to be named a "good" javelin that doesn't do this, but unfortunately, that's impossible.

[Sirius]

I decided to ask 16 squadcaptains on the TWLD ladder what they thought. - Mirrorrim

This is a funny point, considering it contradicts Mirrorrim trying to claim that it was based off the 'past TWL squadcaptains' when there is nowhere near 16 of those in TWD right now, maybe 5 or 6 tops for TWLD.

[megaman89]

I decided to ask 16 squadcaptains on the TWLD ladder what they thought. - Mirrorrim

This is a funny point, considering it contradicts Mirrorrim trying to claim that it was based off the 'past TWL squadcaptains' when there is nowhere near 16 of those in TWD right now, maybe 5 or 6 tops for TWLD.

true 5 or 6. Dice being 1 of them. And I was not asked

[MirrorriM]

I'm not concerned about the change in itself, but I'm concerned about the way it was gone about. Removing the blocks was whined about, but it was given enough testing for people to ultimately see that it was actually a good idea. I certainly like it, and I bet most people do. Maybe people would feel the same way about allowing 2 terriers if it was given as much time to be tested as the map change was?

Also, enforcing a 4-spider limit is the wrong way to go about it. I've been saying this for years. If people are using 5 spiders then there is a reason for it. Perhaps that reason might be that spiders are overpowered? Or maybe the other ships just aren't good enough? Whatever the case may be, forcing people to play a certain lineup is stupid, and it's not getting to the root of the problem. It's ridiculous to say, "You are forced to play a warbird now! Look how fun and exciting we've made the game now!!" Give people a reason to play that warbird, but don't force them to.

As far has having no ship limits at all, that would be ideal in a perfect world. However, there are a few issues with that. For one, the current map (flagroom, specifically) is far too small to accommodate multiple ships other than spiders. The map would have to be radically changed if this was going to be put into effect. Then, there's another problem with that: the teams would be too small to fill up such a large map. Besides that, no squad is going to seriously use anything but 5 spiders, other than squads with lag abuser javelins. I remember Disoblige at the beginning of last season, talking about how cool their wb+jav strategy was. Really worked great, didn't it guys?

Secondly, let's face it: Subspace is an old game. Lag already has a profound effect on games because of the way the client/server works. How many times have you saw a person blow up for no apparent reason, but on their screen they had hit a burst? How about the times when your jav shoots a bomb, and everyone dies except the terr, who saw no bomb at all on their screen? Do you know how much different (and better) the game would be if everybody saw the exact same thing on their screens? Having even more bursts and bombs and whatnot is going to make the game even more random. You might as well go play Snakes & Ladders. Ideally, TWL would be played on a LAN, but that's obviously not going to happen.

The only reason I dislike javelins is because the only ones that are considered "good" are the players that abuse lag and the bug with rockets+repels. Against an evenly matched team, a warbird is mostly irrelevant, and so is a javelin that doesn't abuse the fuck out of lag. I'd ask to be named a "good" javelin that doesn't do this, but unfortunately, that's impossible.

I agree with you about everything, Stab. I've already said multiple times that I wish more testing was allowed. It was abruptly stopped early. We can all say we wanted more testing. I still think 2 terrs is not apocalyptic until someone shows me evidence otherwise. I took the idea from the no ship limit guys, tested and saw 2 terrs had the least effect.

Sirius: you sure like to ignore all the facts, dont you. I asked top 16. I paid attention to the squads highest on the ladder. Even more attention to past TWLD squads. ... want a surprising fact? The squads lower on the ladder voted for 8, they thought they werent good enough. The squads highest on the ladder thought 10 was good. Since they are the ones actually playing against these 2 extra squads, I will pay attention to them.

Edit: 2 terrs are now allowed in TWBD and ?go base. Feel free to try it out and lemme know what you think. If at the end of next month (before TWL), people still think it should be removed because the bursts are overpowering, then I'll reconsider. I realize a month is not long, but given the fact most people think 2 terrs is useless, I dont think it will be that big of a deal.

[grand]

Lol, if this ends up actually happening, going to gladly quit

[Nimrook]

i dont get why ppl still complaining? if you dont like two terr rules then DONT USE IT.. it's not like they are FORCING you to go 2 terrs, if like you said majority of the people in ?go base did not like the two terrs style then no one will use it and this suggestion will be ignored anyways

[pascone]

If the top 16 teams were asked, 8 of those teams weren't making twl (9-16). Obviously they would want more teams to give them a better chance. Teams ranked 5-8 might not feel secure about their ability to hold their spots, and thus, vote for more teams to ensure a better buffer.

It's no suprise that it was increased to 10

[Dwopple]

mirror stop being power hungry with this subject!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! youre saying 'if someone can prove to me why its a bad idea ill consider removing it' ....... what the fuck ???? since when was basing left up to you??? the proof is in the hatred of what you have changed to basing...the majority of the people dont like what youre doing here!!! and 80% of the people who support it are from disoblige and complain for changes since they havent won shit since it started 7 seasons ago.


power to the people ffs. take it down until we have more time to test it. simple as that.

[Zeebu]

Edit: 2 terrs are now allowed in TWBD and ?go base. Feel free to try it out and lemme know what you think. If at the end of next month (before TWL), people still think it should be removed because the bursts are overpowering, then I'll reconsider. I realize a month is not long, but given the fact most people think 2 terrs is useless, I dont think it will be that big of a deal.

be sure to up the number of changes to 6 as well if you havent already

[Dwopple]

also for all you queers talking about 'youre not being forced to play it' 'its an option' well:

we are being forced to play this kind of basing (mirror just said it was put in BASE and TWBD)

and if its an option, why not put it in base2 or make some other league where players actually WILL have the option to play it or not. instead of forcing it on us and just throwing it out there with no details or anything. there was no warning to this change, it was literally done overnight without poll or MAJORITY public opinion. and if you did ask alot of people, who exactly? im getting the feeling many people who havent won an LB title in a long time (disoblige) were the ones asked.