TWL Resolution Part 2

[Burnt]

I would put money on the fact that the significant majority of steam players have monitors that can do at least 1600.

Well I guess I can't prove you wrong but I doubt that is true. Regardless though, most steam users manage on less than 1680/1600, so why exactly is it so necessary to play TW on it?

not necessarily. in fact, if you are in close combat with somebody else, a higher resolution is generally preferable, at least for that moment.

I'm assuming you mean lower resolution is preferable in this case. Most of TWLD games aren't played in close combat, so doesn't really matter if a lower resolution is better in a close combat 1v1 instance...which is isn't since if you're on higher resolution you can take advantage of that fact
to stay slightly out of their screen while they are still on yours.

personally, in hockey zone I dont like to play over 1680 even though I could be using 1920.

But you do play on 1680 over lower resolutions which is what your want the limit increased to. 1680x1050 or 1600x1200 is clearly superior to 1280x1024 or 1440x900 in warbird in this zone.

All that higher resolution does is give you a greater chance to see strays and allow you to see teammates and enemies better, it doesnt make you aim better or dodge better or position better, ultimately.

Of course it improves aiming and dodging. You see people on your screen more making it easier to aim at them and you see bullets earlier so they are easier to dodge. Try playing on 1024x768 and see it's not harder to dodge in twdd than 1280x1024.

with that being said, it is still an advantage, though not a huge advantage, not enough to justify bringing down the quality of the competitive league play.

It's clearly a huge advantage. I'm always checking people's resolutions now the you can (http://www.trenchwars.org/index.php?v=pubstats) and a lot of people play with 1280x800. So I just aim at them from up or down and they are very easy to kill, cause they can't see shit vertically. These players demonstrate a clear pattern of suckage when playing against 1280x1024 players since they are at such a huge disadvantage. Same thing would happen with players on 1680x1050 and 1600x1200 against lower resolution players. Same thing did happen when I played on 1600x1200 before the resolution limit.

Yes, more competitive, because the quality of the game is disminished and more reliant on luck with this 1280 res cap.

There will always be some luck involved regardless of the resolution limit. By increasing the resolution limit, you'll just add another factor which will diminish skill as a determining factor in the outcome of games and that factor is what squad has higher resolution players. If you want skill to determine the outcome of games, increasing the resolution limit does the exact opposite.

but i think he was trying to say that TWLD could simply be more competitive than it is now if the res was capped higher

At this point I have no idea what you mean by competitive, you just keep saying the word over and over but I don't know what you mean by it.

[Noah]

The reason why higher resolutions isn't used all the time on steam is because the games that runs off steam needs alot more computer power than this game needs.

If you look at what resolutions Crysis is played at compared to Half Life 2 you're definitely going to see that people play Crysis at a lower resolution (to those who are completely oblivious to other games: Crysis requires a much more powerful computer than HL2).

This game is so old that I have a hard time imagining anyone being restricted by their hardware when it comes to resolutions. Some really bad laptops might not have a screen that can go above 1440*xxx but I'm confident that these players are in a vast minority.

[Chuckle]

I disagree. I use radar more than I ever use my normal screen... even when rushing.

I watch radar 90% of the time.. and really I never have to look off radar, because you know where a shot is coming from just by the position that the enemy blue dots are in

when I rush, I dont look on the main screen until the last second when I am shooting... or when I am trying to draw the other player into shooting...that is it... i dont look on my main screen very much at all

now i know why you suck

[Doc Flabby]

doc flabby, i am not sure if you have ever even played a TWL game in your life, and i doubt even more that you have played TWL on a resolution greater than 1280.

I think you need to re-read my post. I've never played in TWL, nor have i ever pretended to, but any changes in TWL will surely have to follow in TWD. I've never played TW at a res higher than 1280x1024. But still as a non-TWL player i don't have any problems with getting strayed. I think if you are still getting strayed in TWL at 1280x1024, you suck

People who have 20 ping, have advantage over people who got 200 ping. so according to this, we should set lag average limit? like between 50 to 100, so if somebody got 120 or 20, he wont be able to play?

We already restrict LAG and packetloss (i think TWL is aroundd 250ms ping) to max it fair, restricting screen resolution is no different.

The reason why higher resolutions isn't used all the time on steam is because the games that runs off steam needs alot more computer power than this game needs.

In a 3d, vector based game, screen resolution is less important because no matter how high your resolution you cannot see MORE of the game area. In a 2d raster based game like Subspace you get a unique advantage in that you can you VIEWING AREA is larger if you play in a higher resolution. In a game like crysis, you get the same VIEWING AREA, but everything just looks bigger, you can't see any more.

The advantage from a large resolution in subspace is substancially greater than your average 3d shooter.

[Displaced]

what i dont understand is how ppl are complaining about the fact that they "cannot" get 1680x1050 or whatever other resolution is being pitched..

jesus h christ, if people (myself included) were able to play this game with 1920x1200 res 9 years ago, surely people can play 1440x900 or 1680x1050 (lower res) 9 years later...

I would also like to point out that my 6 year old piece of shit most basic laptop ever can do 1440x900, most people have hardware that is between 1 and 4 years old (generally, looking from steam stats) i.e. NOONE will be unable to play with 1600x1200 or 1680x1050.

[FarScape]

We already restrict LAG and packetloss (i think TWL is aroundd 250ms ping) to max it fair, restricting screen resolution is no different.

.

There is different between putting a lag limit for laggers, to what I was saying about making an average lag range.

Restricting screen resolution is like saying to someone with 20 ping that he isn't allow to play, because he has advantage.

[Noah]

In a 3d, vector based game, screen resolution is less important because no matter how high your resolution you cannot see MORE of the game area. In a 2d raster based game like Subspace you get a unique advantage in that you can you VIEWING AREA is larger if you play in a higher resolution. In a game like crysis, you get the same VIEWING AREA, but everything just looks bigger, you can't see any more.

The advantage from a large resolution in subspace is substancially greater than your average 3d shooter.

My point was that everyone and their grandma should be able to raise their resolutions if this gets through. This means that there will hardly be anyone left to actually be at a disadvantage. You won't be at an advantage when almost everyone who plays this game can easily play at the same res as yourself.

[Burnt]

The reason why higher resolutions isn't used all the time on steam is because the games that runs off steam needs alot more computer power than this game needs.

Some really bad laptops might not have a screen that can go above 1440*xxx but I'm confident that these players are in a vast minority.

I'm not sure "primary display resolution" means what you play your games on. I was told by one person here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...d.php?t=949159

that it means desktop resolution. Also most laptops being sold today don't go above 1440x900, I took a look at the best sellers on bestbuy, newegg, and amazon and most of those just don't go above 1440x900. I mean here's an alienware $2000 laptop that only goes to 1440x900: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1218095797767

My point was that everyone and their grandma should be able to raise their resolutions if this gets through. This means that there will hardly be anyone left to actually be at a disadvantage. You won't be at an advantage when almost everyone who plays this game can easily play at the same res as yourself.

I've yet to see any evidence to back up your point though.

[Displaced]

whether or not primary display resolution is your gaming resolution or not is moot, because it IS atleast your desktop resolution, therefore it is guaranteed that if your desktop res is 1680x1050, you can play subspace on that same resolution.

also, as for your laptop comment, sure i can dig up overpriced pieces of shit too, that said, WSXGA+ is terribbly common in laptops nowadays, as is WUXGA.

My old ass acer laptop (like i said atleast 6 years old) does 1440x900.
I've also got a "broken" acer 4005WLMi that is now 4 years old (that i got for free) that does 1680x1050 on a 15.4 inch screen.

300€ laptops by default have atleast a 17inch screen and a resolution of atleast 1440x900, and these are ENTRY LEVEL laptops.

That said, im at work atm, and almost every decent site is blocked, so i cant dig up any statistics.

[freddie]

Maybe get ER and host series of 5v5 deathmatches with TWL wb players in.

Other team with higher resos and other team with the standard 1280*1024 (or w/e) and get the players who arent playing to watch and comment the game.

If bigger reso really gives much advantage and you think that not many enough can use it, you can use the limit. But if somehow players could work together and get into conclusion that bigger resolution is good for the game, we could remove limit. (Only saying that cause most likely it would be "our reso is better than your reso and we (dont) want limit")

[Noah]

You got one answer that said it depended on your game resolutions and one answer that it was the desktop resolution. For some reason you chose to only mention one of those.

A vast majority of players I've talked with ingame uses a desktop, and not a laptop. I can't bring you any other proof of that except that the same playerbase is there for you if you feel like asking around.

[1969 Camaro]

Here I was thinking that aiming shots from radar was a legitimate way to kill people. As it turns out, if you successfully predict where somebody on radar is going to end up and you hit them, then it is a lucky stray and that person shouldn't have died. Seriously, when did radar shooting become taboo? It has been a part of the game forever. If resolution goes up and up then pretty soon you will be able to see everything you would normally see on radar on your main screen, rendering the radar completely useless and by extension eliminating a style of playing the game that has existed since its birth. It seems to me that if we are trying to make this game more appealing to new players, then enacting measures that decrease the number of ways that they can play the game is not a very good way to go about it.

Increasing resolution doesn't decrease the amount of luck involved and increase the amount of skill. It just decreases the need to always be on your guard because you can see the bullets coming from 12 miles away. Lower resolution requires quicker reaction time. If somebody aims at you from off your screen and you die, that's not luck, that's you failing to dodge a shot that was well placed. Now if somebody shoots at somebody else, misses that person, and hits you, that's what I'd call a stray/luck. Increasing resolution might decrease the occurrence of that, but probably not by much.

[Jones]

ah, yes folks, to conclude this internet debate we must cap the resolution at 800x600 to ensure maximal level of fair play will be in use between each competitor in the trench wars leagues. not only will everyone have the same resolution, the game will also never be boring. the amount of luck between the good players will be at a minimum because in twl you should be able to dodge the "strays" by reading your radar correctly.

[MegaNewbie]

K

I didnt read much but i saw its about resolution

Im gonna talk about wb since im wb.

Im agaisnt putting bigger resolutions.Not because it gives an "advantage" to some players.but because it kills a part of the gameplay: the radaring.

A good warbird has to be good in radaring...sniping.. If you put bigger resolutions you are going to kill the art of sniping and dodging by using the radar.Why even use radar?

Now some people say it would be better to avoid "strays".

However,the REAL STRAYS are extremely rare.

there are 3 types of strays on ppl minds.

#1 - The radar kill.but since the player coundlt see the enemy on radar he just decides to call it a "stray"

#2 - you are close to an ally,and the enemy fires aiming at the ally,however, it actually kills you.

#3 - No1 is at ur radar.No enemies. And you are away from your teamates.then a bullet comes out of nowhere and it kills you.


Look at #1. This is where the skill is at.where the good player get the advantage.The bad player dies in here because he distracted himself or something and didnt pay attention to the radaring. If you put bigger resolutions, you are going to end that.

Now, look at the #2. There is a way to avoid it.Dont stay behind your allies or something.Be smart.The good player also gets advantage from it. And the resolution in that case has no different. Those types of strays are going still to happen in the same way no matter what resolution you use.

Now #3. This type of stray is the only REAL STRAY. but it is EXTREMELY rare.Id say it happens 1 time in like 35 deaths.This is rare because the bullet after some time after it was fired it dissapear. the bullet was to come right directly at you, and it has to come very fast in a way thats it impossible to dodge.

and lets not forget that there are "forced" strays.

I kill many people by forcing strays.I mean... when i'm in a 1v1 and its a dd or twl or something, and the enemy isnt even at my radar. I just ask my teamates to give me the coords of where the enemy is.I dont do that to go search the enemy. I use it to stray. By having the coords of the enemy, i can have an idea where he is at and then i can Stray and maybe kill him. I won some 49-49 games like that already. and they would complain how "lucky" i was.It wasnt luck. It was planned.

Anyway,I'm agaisnt bigger resolutions because it kills a big part of the skill, the radaring, and only avoiding people to die from EXTREMELY RARE strays, witch every1 dies to.


Learn from Mega Newbie, you mega newbies!!!!

[Jones]

mega i love you and what you say is completely true. however, the radar is bigger than 1600x1200, radarbattles will still occur and you will still have to read your radar alot when you move around. you will however, have much more time to dodge these radarshots as they come, hence drawing out the game, this is why people will say it will become boring.