forthcoming changes to the league

[Jones]

Appeals make forums entertaining, creating more activity, it's always been a part of this game...

appeals are... boring, honestly, what made these forums great was the pallies crew (really) yes, drama is fun, no, appeals are not that fun. I see your point though.

[Tiny]

Yes.

That rule is essentially there to discourage teams and players from submitting joke appeals which wastes our time and resources. The players should take the rules of the league seriously.

That's really a silly and unneeded rule. To circumvent that, one could just find out...hey who's not coming next weekend? appeal for the squad like kthx said. Appeals should come from captains and captains only. They should not be punished for this though, especially if it coming from a captain who is trying to get his squad a fair game.

[Crescent Seal]

That rule is bad. People actually do make appeals feeling that they are in the right majority of the time so why should they be punished for it? If anything it shows how much they care about this shitty game lol.

[ogron]

Ogron finally running TWL? About Time.

lol turb is being overly generous, he's in charge and doing the majority of the work.

if i ran TWL it would be a keeper league draft and there would be six-to-eight competitive teams and there would be a 900 page forum thread of people crying about wanting to play with their friends and threatening to quit and how im ruining TWL.

TWLB mockup:



Using the Dice core as an example, you could easily trade and get most of the players you usually TWL with trading off some depth, and most of the crybabies could get to where they wanted to go, to where 80-90% of players are okay with the team they're on, and more fun/competitive Sundays.

You could also maybe just do it for LB since LJ and LD are better off, and keep is separate from LJ/LD teams (you could, for example, play on Juans in those two, then a different squad for LB.)

TWLB was arguably the best and most competitive league for a few years until recently, but it's being hit hardest by the decline in population due to requiring 8 players and specialty ships in short supply. TWLJ and TWLD had a nice resurgence TWL 19 and looked really good, especially warbird. Basing is the least healthy league at the moment. It would benefit the most from something like that.

The gap between what little new players we have and those with 20,000 hours and 10 years experience is too large to be closed and TWD isn't active enough for them to become relevant short of a miracle. I don't see TWL surviving in any relevant form without at least a partial draft.

We're also talking about a system that would see you having a high % chance of playing with the people you usually play with anyway, and a one in six chance to win your league. The NBA builds dynasties in a 30 team league and a draft, I don't see why people are so resistant to it here in a dying game that desperately needs it.

-----

Edit: The league would be 8 teams still, the final two squads being learning squads who want some TWL experience. So like Tenure and Paladen or Attack or whatever.

[PrOnEsSim]

we may end up doing a qualification tournament featuring the bottom seeded teams in the ladder as it is very likely that teams will be win trading to screw up the ladders and rankings, and we are aiming to feature the best teams in the competition.

At least there will not be a situation like last year with Paladen/Thunder/Lego scenerio.

Though I am not sure how I feel about basing matches to 12 minutes.

[Dreamwin]

I think the changes in basing are bad. Time race to 12 minutes is quite short. For once when we(hopefully) get a chance to play competetive matches, they will be short.

Secondly, I have my doubts about the burst. Sure it kind of evens out the variance between prizes you get from greens but it takes away the skill aspect of one team collecting more greens than the other. Also we will not be seeing highlight-worthy escapes from terriers.
Sure, you can think of strategies with the new way which is interesting. Also one thing to note is cram breaking. The defending terrier can basically stop the push once every minute.

Lastly, your too new additions are in conflict with each other. You justify the burst "improvement" by saying it will deduct the luck aspect of the game. Yet you shorten the time in lb matches which gives the worse team better chance of winning, because of luck. (Which im not saying is a bad thing)

Without testing too.. I'm feeling a bit uncertain at the moment.

PS. Sorry for bad english, had only 5mins to spare.

[Ephemeral]

Claus,
While I don’t refute your logic and arguments (I actually agree with most of your points) I remain unsure that what you outline as being the best for the TW. It seems that we are resigning ourselves to the same power teams that occur each year (despite your attempts to balance them which is better than doing nothing) which will lead to the same tired, boring playoffs.

I would support a more sweeping shake up, recognizing the whining that would occur, which would force the “great” players to play on squads which weren’t so “great”. (After all, if you consider yourself a “great” player then shouldn’t you be able to carry a less then “great” team? Or are these “great” players a bunch of pussies who will only play with other “great” players? Frankly you can stick a not so “great” player on a team like Dice and raise their level of play substantially. Let’s see what happens when the “great” players are required to play on not so “great” teams! Or would all these pussies say they wouldn’t play unless they can form their powerhouse teams and win every game? And I don’t buy into the crap about ‘I want to play with my friends’. If you have been on these chats you well know that few are true friends, most simply tolerate each other because of their skill levels and the desire to shit talk when they win.)

Would not having more balanced teams, those with “great” players and not so “great” players, allow more players to learn how to improve? Would it not allow for a more interesting season? Is what we want another tedious season, played with the same boring lineups?

If TWL is not shaken up, if it does not attract and support less than “great” players, then perhaps it has run its course. Simply see the HZ zone for the harbinger of what is to come for TWL unless some sweeping changes are made. Is TWL concerned about building anything for the future or is it simply run for a handful of “great” players like HZ zone?

If the answer is that it is run only for a handful of elite players, then TW should relegate regular season games to off hours (playoffs could be held during prime time hours). TW should concentrate on TWD and give it priority since it reaches more players if TWL is only for elite players; don’t allow TWL to consume the best time slots and completely disrupt TWD. The shorter season puts it on the track for this anyway (minimizing the impact on the rest of the zone).
Eph

[PrOnEsSim]

I agree with Dreamwin, there needs to be some priror testing before TWL. Prehaps a pre season is defiantly in order.

[project dragon]

Just for reference for the shark change you mentioned, I don't think they are comparable. Terr burst "luck" is from greening a burst, while the old shark shrap "luck", I thought, was mostly because random shrap never showed up the same way on people's monitors, so what was a hit on my screen was not a hit on someone else's screen, sort of like how repped items (like slow bursts) work currently. The switch wasn't really to reduce the "luck" factor, but to literally make the shrap consistently show up in the same places for all players and to get rid of shrap showing up in different places on everyone's screens.

[ogron]

I think the changes in basing are bad. Time race to 12 minutes is quite short. For once when we(hopefully) get a chance to play competetive matches, they will be short.

Secondly, I have my doubts about the burst. Sure it kind of evens out the variance between prizes you get from greens but it takes away the skill aspect of one team collecting more greens than the other. Also we will not be seeing highlight-worthy escapes from terriers.
Sure, you can think of strategies with the new way which is interesting. Also one thing to note is cram breaking. The defending terrier can basically stop the push once every minute.

Lastly, your too new additions are in conflict with each other. You justify the burst "improvement" by saying it will deduct the luck aspect of the game. Yet you shorten the time in lb matches which gives the worse team better chance of winning, because of luck. (Which im not saying is a bad thing)

Without testing too.. I'm feeling a bit uncertain at the moment.

PS. Sorry for bad english, had only 5mins to spare.

1) Shortening games to 12 doesn't increase luck when you double the amount of games. For every 6 minutes of basing you're losing, you gain 24. That's a net increase of 18 minutes of basing per opponent.

2) Greening is still valuable -- portals, fullcharges, repels, and shrapnel are all important. All three ships still benefit from them.

3) Reducing the variance of shrapnel to a set pattern dramatically increased the skillset required in shark and terrier (less-so in spider) -- top-tier sharks now mine and bomb specific areas in attempts to get Teks, and good terriers play in between the shrapnel lines. Reducing the variance of bursts is a threefold improvement:

A) There is one terrier. There are seven other ships. It is incredibly disheartening (and stupid) to have the majority of your team outplay the enemy and then the enemy terr fires 3-4 bursts in several seconds and wipe you out. This also sometimes happens when breaking cram in tough games where the defending terr gets multiple greens in several seconds and destroys your break and costs you minutes saving cram. 1 minute gaps between bursts gives you a minute to break without fear. Moreover, the opposing terr just died and got their burst back on death. He can use it to clear the sides then gets a 2nd burst right after, giving him another burst to save for the FR fight or to clear the side holes again. As the dying terrier trying to break you can now often 2-for-1: use your burst from death quickly, then catch the next 1-minute prized burst, gaining an extra burst over the defending terrier.

B) The opposite can happen: you get unlucky and get zero bursts for 5-6 minutes while your opponent is spamming them like a retard. Bursts are incredibly powerful and can easily take out 2 enemies. This balances the distribution and forces terriers to be more judicious in when to use their burst (and makes saving it for escape and port traps more viable -- so I would argue it increases highlight worthy plays from terriers.) You're more likely to actively count shark reps and gaps if you know you're not able to prize one two seconds later.

C) It adds another layer of skill in the same way junglers in LoL know the timing of Dragon or Baron, if you're multi-tasking well you will know both when your team's burst is up and the enemies, and can play around it or into it. Patient terriers can burst at the end of the one minute cycle and pick up their second burst right after, using them in short succession (we'll be adding a delay you can't just outright double-burst and have 6 going at the same time -- somewhere between 5 to 8 seconds? we'll do some playtesting). But you can surprise enemies who aren't paying attention to the cycle or design plays around it.


As someone who terrs and loves the ship, I love getting multiple bursts and turning around a game, but if I'm being honest it's kinda broken, if you get lucky and the opposing team gets unlucky, greening bursts is a bigger swing than any other mechanic in the game. That variance takes away from the other 7 people on your team who are working hard to win.

Normalizing shrap proved a boon to basing, and I think this will improve it as well. Don't forget: you're getting the same amount of bursts on average as you would otherwise, you're not losing the average amount of bursts per game you get. They're just being distributed better across time to provide a better balance.

[Rough]

Keep basing to 15 minutes(lol this guy doesn't even play base but wants to change the league for the people who love it) and leave the bursts as is.

Make LJ/LD best out of 3 for regular season

[Struckles]

looool @ your sig rough

[forwards]

looool @ your sig rough

Khabi gucci, khabi gham.

[Funky Hobo]

Lol Struckles and forwards Bollywood movie fans? A classic...
दिल तो पागल है Dil To Pagal Hai

[field]

Implement the burst change in bd asap so we can give feedback.

The change makes sense though.