Fix TWL

[PapaRaazi]

this is mainly to prevent people from benching. half of the wbs listed on that chart bench for fierce and burn LOL.

whats the real problem? People can join w.e squad they like some ppl will get benched some will play. If the issue is being awarded medals while benching then this whole thread is off base

and im pretty sure all the burn/fierce players listed have played at least 1 ld match

[forwards]

whats the real problem? People can join w.e squad they like some ppl will get benched some will play. If the issue is being awarded medals while benching then this whole thread is off base

and im pretty sure all the burn/fierce players listed have played at least 1 ld match

let go let stfu

[Crescent Seal]

whats the real problem?

1. Reduces competition since competitive players bench adding 0 value to the league.
2. Reduces TWD activity when you have 10 people sitting in spec "coording".
3. TWLD becomes a top heavy league where the bottom squads just get pounded every season which becomes boring for the top squads too.
4. Doesn't help facilitate the transition of newbies into average/good players.

Making it draft style would ensure that newbies/average players get to play with vets which would make them better too in the long run. For the long term, this will become necessary since we have 0 new players coming in. We have to find a way to keep our existing newbies interested in this game and hope they can "level up" and add to the competition instead of them just quitting for being excluded. We can still create a separate top 5 wbs vs top 5 wbs league and call it Nerd League or something where only the best players play each other.

[Banks]

Was gonna make a thread about this but then i saw Ease on this shit.
You want to know how to save TWL? Spread out good/bad players on teams so everyone plays and everyone has a good competitive twl. Im not saying twdt, but thats exactly what im saying.
Im proud of Ogron for trying something new and to try and spread the competition out for everyone to enjoy.
Its not only the medals. Hell, I'd love some, but they all mean nothing to me if i bench and didnt earn them.
In a sense, Ease is correct. But he is also wrong at the same time.
Need staff to step up next season (if there will be a next season) and make sure that the competitiveness of the game some how goes on. Im tired of seeing dice/pandora/fierce core players dominate the zone in all three leagues.

[kentaro]

Forcing people to play with weak players or who they don't like is a waste of time, however making people pick between what they currently have may be an option. Perhaps a mixture of a draft like twdt and a player cap like twl. A pure draft like twdt is redundant and way too restrictive

I propose we have a max star cap on squads overall while keeping people with the freedom to recruit etc. so say apok wants to keep a dominant 5 of deez, skep, lasenza Etc together. He doesn't have enough stars to keep non starters and decides to let them go. Those guys can fill in squads that have the spare stars or are willing to use their stars on them.

[Crescent Seal]

yeah a hybrid system like that makes more sense. it seems like people want to maintain their squad identities.

[field]

I had a pretty good plan actually. It would involve marketing through product placement on an established gaming platform. If staff implements this, it would be very beneficial due to the fact that it would increase population by a large margin and it would be essentially free. Basically, we should launch this game on steam.

LOOL

[field]

whats the real problem? People can join w.e squad they like some ppl will get benched some will play. If the issue is being awarded medals while benching then this whole thread is off base

and im pretty sure all the burn/fierce players listed have played at least 1 ld match

stop wearing a dishdasha

[field]

When I look at the people who have posted in this thread, I see very few who have played any Pub in years. Pub is the food for keeping the leagues healthy.

I play a lot of Pub, but not because it is fun. I mostly played Pub because it was good for the zone. I looked at it kind of like the cost for playing and a way to give back to the zone. If player wasn’t contributing by being on staff, or donating money to the zone; then I always felt playing Pub was the next best thing. But I understand why more players don’t contribute by playing Pub; unfortunately dumbass decisions by staffers make donating time to Pub just about meaningless. (Like holding events when Pub is struggling just to stay alive with 9-10 players.)

Yes, stacking of TWLB squad is (and has been) a real problem. Having the guy who leads our zone, after giving a interview in which he blows a lot of smoke up everyone’s ass about what is best for the zone, jump from a struggling squad to a stacked one at the start of TWL Season 20 was incredibly demoralizing. This action epitomized the selfish kind of thinking that has always plagued this zone.

There is no ‘fixing’ TWL unless the zone management is also fixed. For the first time in 17 years I am very close to not playing the zone anymore at all. Who wants to contribute to the zone at this point? Look at how many good people have been burned out trying to help this zone and TWL. Of course contributing to a community full of selfish people is not something that many smart people would want to waste their time on. But it has been up to the zone leadership to address issue this over the years and obviously they have completely failed. This failure was not due to ‘not knowing’; there were plenty of people pointing out that there were few incentives for anyone (players or staff) to ‘do the right thing’. Hell, for years the entire staff structure was setup in a way that was completely counterproductive to the health of the zone. IMO the zone often ‘rewarded’ the wrong kinds of behavior. If this is true, who is to blame for the selfish thinking of many players?

TWL follows the zone. As the quality of the zone has contracted, so has the quality of the leagues. The solution for squeezing out some more years from the zone is for both staffers and players to reinvest in contributing to the zone in one way or another. (Obviously we have to rely the support of players who have previously enjoyed the zone along with nurturing a small group of new players.) Zone leadership and players need to be selfless and make all decisions in the context of what is best for the zone, not what is ‘most fun’ for them alone. But given the actions of most existing players and staff, this doesn’t seem likely at this point. This is most evident in TWLB now, TWLD and TWLJ probably have a few more years left in them since they can be done with fewer players.

It is like TW is a local community park with basketball courts, baseball fields, soccer fields, and nice walking trails. TWL is a annual league held in this community park. Is the expectation that it is fine for TWL players to show up once a year but never ‘giving back’ to support the running of the park? On the other hand if the park is being mismanaged and has fallen into disrepair, why would anyone want to contribute their time to it? Fix the management, support the right kind of behaviors, and TWL might be able to hang in there a few more years. Continue on the current path, and TW becomes just like the HZ zone. (Zone almost completely inactive with periodic leagues in which highly skilled players fuck with each other.)
Eph

Sorry for the double post, can’t seem to edit the one above….

There are only a few ways to ‘give back’ the this zone.

1. You can donate money. Many feel this is not a great way to ‘give back’. First, there were rumors, justified or not, that previously some money was misappropriated. Additionally, how the donated money is to be used has always been an issue of contention.
2. You can join zone staff or league staff. This is ok as long as you do not burn out. Good luck with that. Very few people have managed to not burn out after joining staff. Some of this is natural, turning something that is fun into a job is almost always a good way to ruin the intrinsic value of something.
3. You can log in and be as active as you can. This does not mean sitting in spec, it does not mean only playing in a league once a year. It means actively playing in Pub, elim, events, etc. throughout the year.

But there is an additional way not listed above, move TWL to a paid service.

TWL moves to a squad structure in which each squad of 25 players participate in all three leagues (TWLB, TWLD, TWLJ). There is no qualification period but there is a $125 per squad entry fee. This fee is covered by each player on the squad paying $5 each. (Five bucks isn’t much, if players don’t want to pay to play TWL then they can always go play Pub which is free.) I suppose if a captain felt like it and wanted a top tier player, they could cover the cost themselves to entice the elite player to join and perform. Perhaps 1-2 captains might even cover the entire $125 themselves if they wanted to try to “buy” some icon rings. LOL

The money collected goes to pay the hosts and league management. Hosts no longer just type a few commands and just log the game. Instead, they are held responsible for the games they host. In other words, they make real-time game calls and decisions. If some game abnormality occurs, the host resolves the issue with a immediate judgment during or after the game. Assuming that there are 8 squads, the league would collect $1000 per season. $500 would go to pay the hosts, $250 would go to pay those who mange the league. The remaining $250 would go to either the winning squads or split between the top performing players.

People would then care about applying for hosting positions and running the league, it would reduce staff burnout and improve the efforts that are needed to run the league. If playing in TWL is not worth paying just $5 for each player, then it is hard to argue that TWL means much to that player. (The argument then turns into, “I don’t want to pay a few dollars, but I want everything to go my way for free.”) TWL would probably get renewed with this approach, becoming more active and more competitive as each stakeholder (league hosts, league management, players) then feels more invested in it.

water u fukin warin

[ogron]

yeah a hybrid system like that makes more sense. it seems like people want to maintain their squad identities.

A hybrid system seems like the best idea thus far. I think this notion of people won't play with people they don't like is overstated, because the biggest factor in that are chats, and everyone is already on legacy chats where the majority of the convos happen. Ease was on Juans and Mcvicar is on Dudgeon, but we're all in the Thunder chat so its not like either are on some distant planet away from us, I talk to Heaven and other Pandora people more than I do those on my squad, although you certainly build a rapport with new people you play with and that's great.

I think the biggest thing for competitive people is they want to play on a good team. If a core of Apok/Deez/Skepsis drafts a warbird, even if they're not your favorite people, most players will play for those guys. There's guys on Burn who don't talk much and probably do most of their socializing on other legacy chats, so you're still getting that aspect of the game.

And to some posted concerns here, the dilution of league talent would be minimal. I appreciate Cres's effort in showing what an 8-team TWLD league would look like, but I would not go that route. I think you have to factor in how big of a talent pool is left in each league, and make sure the quality is still high and that each squad has some decent subs. The sweet spot is 5-6 teams imo.

Moreover, it allows for 2-3 newbie squads to get in. This is very important. 10 years ago, I would have said newbies don't belong in TWL, and that's it's the premiere elite league and they need to work their way in and earn their spot, but there isn't enough TWD activity or population to sustain that kind of effort. Getting newer players involved earlier is important, and gaining experience to move up in their ship.

There is no perfect solution, and some people are going to be unhappy. Even in TWDT, though, trades are rare, and most people are willing to go in good faith and give it a go. There's more leniency in letting people like TJ Hazuki captain a squad and draft, but for a hybrid TWL system it would just be 5 really unimpeachable cores/captains that would form a great nucleus to compete while spreading the talent more.

The level of play would be very nearly as good as it is now. Downgrading your 4/5th players from 9-stars to 8-stars with multiple years experience isn't going to have a very noticeable effect on play -- we're not talking about mandating 5/6 star players like TWDT who can't rush in wb, go 2-10 in jav, don't know how to dodge corners in spid.

[Banks]

Never said how, i just said what we need. But yes, a hybrid system sounds excellent.

[Ravos]

I had a pretty good plan actually. It would involve marketing through product placement on an established gaming platform. If staff implements this, it would be very beneficial due to the fact that it would increase population by a large margin and it would be essentially free. Basically, we should launch this game on steam.

dis gud plan
+1

[mtine]

Finally a good idea. But at the same time the question arises: will those captains be willing to sacrifice some of their benchers and recruit some new/old talent? I'm skeptical about that part. However, it's worth a try in my opinion.

[Ricko]

I'm very much up for the idea of some sort of star cap that's high enough to have a very good 4/5 top wb lineup, but when it comes to your bench it would mean you couldn't hold on to top wbs and would have to throw in some newer/less experienced players.

In Cobra we only have about 4 active wbs and our bench is completely inactive/half-retired/non-existant, despite the fact some people include us in the 'stacked' category, their inactivity/rustiness isn't helpful at all.

However looking at Fierce as an example, yes they probably have as many wbs as we do on our roster, but their bench consists of at least 4 very good and active wbs - Tripin, Geio, Last Standing and Vash - not to mention 24 is decent too. Spreading these guys out, or similar looking rosters in future seasons, would be really beneficial for the league; that 'bench' is easily a playoff team in itself.

[Ravos]

But isnt that what TWDT is for??
Why have another draft???

People play TWL for medals. Give only medals to people who have a certain amount of percentage in played games. In their respective league!
No LD medals for people who only played the LB games for their squad.

ITS ALL ABOUT THE MEDALS !!!!