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  • Fix TWL

    As I'm sure most of you are aware, the league is in a sad state. I spent the past six months playing with Juans and enjoyed playing with a new group of guys. I feel like we had the line to compete as underdogs and had a decent shot at winning, which was my intention all along. However, over time, I realized I still wanted to compete in LD and LB after the narrow losses last season. I tried to look for exceptions and ways in which I could stay in Juans while still playing LD/LB and looking for revenge, such as joining separate squad rosters for separate leagues. I felt that after all the time I had wasted in this game, I was owed at least a bit of deference in being allowed to play another league which would prevent me from damaging Juans and hopefully add a bit of competition to other leagues.

    What does this sound like? Entitlement. Entitlement is the plague that has ruined TWL for years and has undoubtedly continued into this season. I'm certainly guilty of it, as are many of you. The fact is, the league owes us NOTHING. Most people in the league feel they deserve to win and therefore congregate in the top squads to increase their chance of winning a useless medal on the TWD website, often while contributing nothing. People complain about the lack of competition in TWL, while at the same time sending out messages to banzi, blood, and underground to add to their line of 15 warbirds. No one wants to be Michael Jordan. Everyone wants to secure a line of 10 backups in case someone can't show, in a game with an active population of 200 remaining. Just earlier, I was bitching about how terrible TWL was when MHz cut into the conversation. He said the following:

    Commodo> that's the dilemma that's faced a lot of good players, playing on low-tier squads
    Commodo> dont need to change the rules because of it
    Commodo> ease, congrats on playing on a non-favourite team
    Commodo> really, gj
    Commodo> but don't be a martyr about it

    Mhz's history is full of helping out mid-tier teams, and as a result he now feels entitled that it's his turn to be on the opposite side of things. This is the exact mindset that is ruining the league. No one is owed anything from the past, it's about the NOW. We should all spread out, and if that's not feasible at least prevent the horde of backups from joining the roster. I certainly played a part in the events that led us here, and tried to do my best this year to change things by example. Not a single baser or warbird joined Juans, and inevitably ended up on 1 of 2 squads for LB. In LD, players like Riverside and Jones led the way by joining Vikings. But when no one spread out, Riverside did the only natural thing he could do; extend his middle finger to the league and join a stronger team.

    You're probably thinking that if I wanted to 3 league, I could have joined a weaker team like Lego, and you're definitely right. However, I chose burn to prove a point (and to see the chaos unfold). No one cared about me sitting out ld or lb and not contributing, but the second I joined the burn roster I got a bunch of angry PMs (most from people on stacked squads). No one cared that the competition would be weaker if i sat out (yes it's my ego talking but I'd like to think it's true). They simply saw it as a chance to collect another medal and not worry about actually playing the game. The best part though was the people making comments such as "How could you do this to Juans?!" while at the same time PMing me a day earlier trying to get me to join their squad.

    If I wanted to compete in 3 leagues the general consensus was "too bad man you should have joined a 3 league squad." Why should a squad like Juans be held back just because they only enjoy jav? Why should I have to hurt Juan's jav line if I want to play all 3 leagues? It simply makes no sense in this current stage of the game. Everyone is stuck in the past with the image of this mildly competitive TWL, and is unwilling to look past the dwindling number of players and squads. I brought up the idea of a separation of leagues and was told by ricko that it would "destroy the integrity of squads." What integrity? There are barely enough squads to fill out TWL and turban practically had to pay people to participate in LD/LB. The league would be a much better place if leagues were split up by time of year or if players were allowed to play on different teams. Sure it would be vastly different, but isn't different what we need? If leagues were separated currently, I would not be in burn for jav or base as I'm definitely not needed. Due to this supposed "squad integrity" though I hurt Juan's chances and joined a team where I'm not needed.

    Something needs to change, and based on every team making the playoffs this year anyway I think there's still time to fix this. I would much rather play for the challenge of winning with a new group in jav, and leaving Juans disappoints me personally. The fact is though, if I made this post while still in Juans, not a single person would care. Most people still playing care nothing for the competition.
    Phiz> I probably am gay
    Phiz> I just haven't realized it yet

  • #2
    You are just trying to give an explanation of abandoning Juans since you got massacred by everyone online at the time you left.

    Also, you left because Juans got pretty much destroyed by Burn earlier today in lj where you got smacked with a record of 2-10. A few people on Juans already mentioned on chat that you were "whining" pretty hard after the loss. For all the years I've known you, there are two things that bother you: 1) you do not like to lose at all, period. 2) You hate Lasenza with a passion.

    I don't care that you left for another stacked squad but don't give us a bullshit explanation of you leaving so we can feel sorry for you because you are trying to give us insight that we need to fix twl and you want to play 3 leagues, not one lol...get out of here bum.
    1:Ogron> i can officially say that i am quitting tinder dude fuck that i met the most amazing girl ever
    1:Zidane> congrats man
    1:Ogron> yeah she is into star wars movies and plays little bit of LoL
    1:Ogron> AND we had a 10 minute make out session in my car
    1:Rough> AND this guy wonders why he is a loser

    Comment


    • #3
      Didn't think Ease was really such a double-faced person. Guy just shattered my dreams. RIP
      "Action is the real measure of intelligence. "
      Napoleon Hill


      wiibimbo>I'm gonna take u out next week for a beer and pizza at Leonardo's...no homo tho! I prefer big boobs
      Dral>I can get implants

      Comment


      • #4
        this is more of a mentality issue than anything else. for some reason nerds on this game feel good about beating up on lesser squads and benching their way to titles. how is it even fun to stack? that entitlement thing you brought up makes 100% sense as well. so many times ive asked people about why they choose to stack and the reply is "i used to cap my own squads and i never got anywhere so its my time now to win". does winning like that even count then? if you faggots want to continue killing this game and its ONLY competitive aspect, then continue stacking.
        1:Rasaq> i scrub really hard with toilet paper so little pieces of it get stuck to my anus hair and then later on when im watching tv i like to pull them out slowly because it feels pretty good

        1:Mutalisk> heard that n1111ga okyo got some DSLs

        Paradise> No names but there's actually a black man in the arena right now.

        Jones> MAAAAN1111GA UCHIHA

        Paradise> NO NAMES. NOT A SINGLE NAME.....but 3/6 of the players on Force are of a certain descent. I will not go any further.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mtine View Post
          Didn't think Ease was really such a double-faced person. Guy just shattered my dreams. RIP
          I really hope that's sarcasm, since you did the same thing less than an hour later.
          Phiz> I probably am gay
          Phiz> I just haven't realized it yet

          Comment


          • #6
            the competition has been segmented in every single season we have had, and this season is no exception.

            the truth is that every season, in each of the three leagues, we have only a handful of teams who have a realistic chance of achieving victory at the end of season. the remaining of the teams either compete to achieve a respectable mid-table finish, or simply play to improve as a whole on both team and individual level. it is a layered competition featuring teams in top, middle and bottom tiers in terms of skill and that will always be the case if we continue to use this league structure. we simply rely too much on the players to have the balls to step out of their comfort zone to prove themselves on a lesser team instead of being content to bench a large majority of the games, and it isn't really reasonable to expect such acts from our players as most of us are extremely competitive and want to win. ironically, the best way to achieve victory and winning a title is by joining the strongest team around.

            this season is no different from seasons 8, 10, 12, 16, or 18, and at this rate the leagues will never have a truly competitive season. considering the future, the league structure has to completely change if we want to have at least one highly competitive league. i don't know if the players would be up for such a drastic change, but it is better than letting the leagues continually stagnate like they have for all these years.

            Comment


            • #7
              I love how after 15 years of playing this game players are starting to realize that it is more fun to play as an underdog and spread the talent. Teams like Syndicate, Thunder, Sk8, Dice, Rampage, Fierce, Siege, Elusive, Light, Dudgeon (Now), Burn etc... have always been the problem to TWL. Ease you say its a case of entitlement, you can't say you have only been guilty of it from time to time, you created it along with all the other top tier talent stacking to win TWL.

              There has only ever been a handful of players who have tried to win titles on lower level skilled squads and been successful. Do not make it a fad, it should be a complete mindset for everyone if they want this game to continue. Don't blame players who haven't won titles who decide to play for a good team that ends up getting over stacked. It's the "idolized" players like Rough, Amputate, Demonfaze, the WB talents on Fierce, all of the players who would horde the talent to win. They have been the problem from the beginning and always will be. You finally realized what it feels like to not be surrounded by 4 other of the top 10 javs of the season, or the top warbirds. You feel helpless because you are not THE player who won everything, you were merely just a member of a stacked line that would dominate the other opponents who had less combined skill.

              It all becomes an individuals choice, it will forever be TWL. It will not change unless you start to implicate dictatorship like rules towards the league, the future of TW is TWDT and people need to start realizing it. Ogron is the best league organized that I've ever been a part of. Bring back TWDT with OGGIE!

              oh and yes, I am a sellout from what I preach. 15 years of off and on close calls of upsets with mambo, revenge, and all of the other lower tier TWL "skills" was enough for me. I want a twl title to round off my TWEL and TWDT championships, next season you will see me again with a team like LEGO.

              Cheers
              Subnova Owner

              Comment


              • #8
                Ease, I have totally different reasons than you. So please, don't judge. And I didn't stack anything LOL. I just joined my friends.
                PS. Since u really wanna know why I left, some idiots on paladen decided to cry every Sunday and I just had enough of that. Period.
                "Action is the real measure of intelligence. "
                Napoleon Hill


                wiibimbo>I'm gonna take u out next week for a beer and pizza at Leonardo's...no homo tho! I prefer big boobs
                Dral>I can get implants

                Comment


                • #9
                  I also agree TWDT is a great example of where we may want to head...

                  there simply arent enough players around anymore for any squad to have the luxury of 7-10 top tier TWL starters which is the case in some squads... When some of the backups are better than another squads top 5 we know there are problems... must be some kind of rules we can implement moving forward
                  1:Foreign> i screenshot every time i get mvp in javs
                  1:pascone> folder is empty :/
                  1:Tiny> LOL
                  1:Mega Newbie> uhauhauhauhauhauha

                  1:Ricko> i havent played so well and gone 4-7 before

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't care to post often, but I'm a little confused as to why the leagues haven't been split yet. It didn't make as much sense before when TWL lasted for months. It is now essentially 2 months, and some squads are playing up to 6 games every Sunday. That's insane.

                    It also doesn't necessarily cater to people playing multiple ships. Especially in a time where you want to get the most out of the active players playing due to a dwindling population, it'd make more sense to give people the opportunity at playing a different ship. I'd imagine a player like myself would be interested in joining a squad to play LJ if it was the only league available.

                    Now, frankly, I don't know if that'll address the stacking problem. That's been deeply embedded within TWL's culture for some reason, and now these "stacked" squads are closely-knit units. Players on Fierce for example aren't only stacked, but they probably genuinely enjoy playing with one another after so many years (though I don't understand how anyone enjoys playing with Lasenza. Apok/Deez are cool as hell to squad with, but my God guys get a grip already).

                    I don't see a solution to this problem. Still really think that the leagues should split. Change isn't so bad, and who knows, it may disrupt the culture well enough to get you guys to not stack.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hopefully something changes next season. The notion that "we already have TWDT, this is TWL" is a weak argument, as most major north american pro sports leagues function on a draft. Also, TWDT has multiple low-star spots and star-limits, etc. which TWL will never have.

                      It doesn't even need to be a draft. It can be caps, a draft, 3 captains (ie, Apok/Deez/Lasenza) leading a core who then draft, so the central identity of the squad is still tied to the best players who traditionally play together. There are a lot of options.

                      I know one of the big gripe of certain players was that TWLD and TWLJ wouldn't have been affected by this year's changes, which is a fair point. From what I'm hearing from Turban, the proposal would involve reforming all three leagues.

                      There's enough talent for 5-6 competitive squads, and then 2-3 newbie squads where people can still play TWL learn/improve.

                      They need to be hard rules implemented early on before the season starts, and whoever is running the league can't cave to people threatening to quit.

                      The quality of the games would increase, matches would be closer, and everyone would be under the same restraints, meaning you're not worried about an arms race with another squad, or having to 100% give up any chance of winning a title (Turban), or feeling guilty for joining a stacked squad to compete for one (Ease.)

                      Fingers can be pointed at Fierce/Burn/Dudgeon/Dice/Thunder/Pandora/Penetrate/Syndicate/-FINAL-/Light/Elusive/Siege/etc., but ultimately recrimination solves nothing.

                      Not having a system in place and simply hoping extremely competitive people balance the league out of the goodness of their hearts for the betterment of mankind then getting mad when they don't is both naive and stupid, and doesn't fix the problem.
                      top 100 basers list

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The line between underdog and champion is thinner than most people realize. A lot of the squads that have been mentioned in this thread were founded not as dominate squads – they became them over time and through the efforts of dedicated players and motivated captains. The difference now is the league is a fishbowl of what it used to be. That and the perception by many players that they cannot win unless they play on X squad - so they might as well stack rather then deviate from the norm by building something new or enhancing an existing squad.

                        Clear problems exist with TWL:
                        What’s the value of a TWL championship worth nowadays? Seems to be worth a hell of a lot less then what it used to be. The value of just playing and competing in the leagues is greatly diminished in general. A big part of that has to do with the way members of our community slander the game they have played for often – 5,10,15 years instead of valuing it for what it is and was. A rare hidden gem.

                        I always enjoyed competing in TWL – wanted to play with players who were interested in winning and giving it their best – there is nothing wrong with those values. The values only get twisted when vets start to brag and trash talk and hate on each other. The more we do that the more we close off from each other and the cycle continues. Competition can bring the worst out in people.

                        Just because a player was part of underdog squads does that never won anything does not mean they can blame players who were part of championship squads.
                        In the end what does a title mean? Does being part of a champion squad and having medals make us better than a pubber? A newbie or that guy who has never moved outside of fun squads, or the guy who always played for the underdogs that came close and did not win. For those who think it does you have the wrong view point.

                        Then we have whiz kids coming up with grand ideas like “Let’s further murk TWL by allowing players to multisquad to boost activity” General lack of respect between many players is a key highlight of our leagues in 2015 and for eons – attitudes and egos come first, trashtalk = modern TW. I have not have had a genuine conversation with Ease in about 12 years and have no plans of changing that anytime soon.

                        Why do we allow aliasing?
                        Aliasing has never helped the game. Someone give me a genuine argument for how aliasing has been beneficial - would love to hear it lol

                        I was sitting in spec the other day and tuned into a pub conversation where Zidane was ranting about Deez nuts being a shitty player etc. while deez was dding. Casket told him to quit tripping and I told him to stfu. To me Deez is one of those rare quiet players – who shares a similar value to me – he comes in to play, compete and give it his best and doesn’t have time for all the whining, lack of respect and trashtalk that defines our league.

                        Pure immaturity – a lot of the player base is old enough to not act like they do. Maybe it’s a bad day at work, or just the usual using TW as a place to vent.

                        Lack of Squad Identity:
                        For many vets the majority of players we would consider genuine friends and great squad mates are long retired, significantly diminishing the value of the game.

                        Leadership is lacking all throughout the zone. Efforts to make squads meaningful are lacking. Even on veteran squads – caps are getting old and not putting in time, willing to sacrifice squad identity for activity – as the cores that used to do the work are retired or barely active. Do I blame caps who put in work for years and now barely contribute? Nope. Does it help our zone? Nope.

                        When I was active I always drew a line with the squads I would play with because in my opinion if we all moved squads every few months and had no rivalries – then what would be the point of this game? Part of my frustration with squad hopping and the lack of loyalty the majority of players display – I have always seen it as the downfall of the leagues. The majority of players would rather be followers then leaders. Ease is pointing that out in his own way.

                        That said the real downfall of the leagues and game is a natural one. What the remaining leagues and years will be like is up to the remaining active player base to decide. They can make the best of it or continue to trash it.

                        Limited infrastructure exists - but small updates can be made to enhance the website - last one done in July 2015, and the league experience (dedicated hot or not writers etc). Expectations have to be realistic and practical.

                        A lot of the leaders on mid-tier squads like Cobra, Juans, Potenza etc. – Do not believe that they can be champions. If you do not believe this how will your players work towards it? Why would competitive players who want to win join you? Leaders have to set vision and goals for squads – they have to believe they can win it all and have the drive to make it happen – got to create synergy within your group.
                        Yet when I read the TWL results - I see upsets, I see some new names having big games - so definitely potential exists for TWL leagues that are more competitive in the future.

                        Teamwork, activity, leadership – smart recruiting – genuine bonds between players, dedication to improve and compete – this builds competitive squads. What might improve the squadding experience is long-term squads established pre-twl with different groups of players playing together and bonding pre-twl.

                        I will likely never join another squad again unless someone comes to me with a clear vision to create the long term squad most of us want to be part of – competitive but fun. Significantly active with players who have a drive and desire to play- not half the squad sitting afk in spec for hours on end. Grown up enough that the chats don’t annoy vets, with a maturity level where everyone has respect for each other and shared goals. Where players login in not only to play and be part of part of something special , but to also contribute to it.

                        What I have found nowadays with the limited amount of time I spend here is I enjoy the game best – when I play some javduels or base, with a bunch of random players. Everyone steps in to game and play – newbs, pubbers and vets alike – plays a few rounds then everyone moves on. Playing the game for fun, no attachments – puts me back in the same place I was as a random newbie, 16 years ago. That is more refreshing then playing in the current version of our leagues.

                        ?go javduel

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          For me, I'm glad Ease has joined Burn. I only ever want to play against the 5 best possible players. Winning vs less-than-formidable teams is no longer enjoyable for me, the same way playing on a squad with filler players is no longer enjoyable. I only come back for the challenging game play - and that's what TWL is for. It should be an elite competition, or it shouldn't exist at all. Attempts to 'level the playing field' fill me with dread - hence why I called you a martyr for suggesting allowing 'double squadding' (on the first season you're not surrounded by a deep, talented roster lol.)

                          The question that we, as players, not as staff, must answer is this: do we want a competition with a few squads that match up to the old squads, or do we want a balanced league with 8 evenly pitted, less good squads. For me, the draft league caters for the people who want the latter. TWL has always only been about 2-3 contending squads in each division - that shouldn't change if we want to keep what vets we have. It sets a benchmark and an aspiration for newer players, which I know kept me coming back from 99-07.
                          You come at the King, you best not miss.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            woah - captains of Cobra don't believe we can ever be champions? Words not taken from any of our mouths. We might not be favourites but we don't lack belief in our abilities.
                            TWL-J Season 11 Champion
                            TWL-J Season 21 Champion
                            TWL-B Season 21 Champion
                            TWL-B Season 22 Finalist
                            TWDT-D 2017 Champion
                            TWDT-J 2017 Champion

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              What ricko said! On behalf of Potenza. And who you calling mid tier! You gonna need the 5 best wbs in the game, to stand a chance to beat us!

                              Ps. all this hopping/stacking you guys all whining about. We are a self made sqd, we have a group of about 8 players who stayed loyal to ONE sqd. We didnt have to go and recruit any superstars. We dont play ss to bench.
                              I seen so many highclass players benching yesterday. That could easly take other sqds to higher levels of playing. But hey if a guys making the choice to bench, who are we to tell them different. You just make it easy for top 3 sqds to battle it out. While the other sqds get steam rolled.. Jajaja -OldMothaFknE
                              Last edited by olde; 10-05-2015, 09:51 AM.

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