Double squadders caught -READ-

[Sirius]

I wasn't even going to go into this whole deal even if my appeal was rejected; fine some idiot double squadded, wasn't intentional, he had no value, whatever, you want to be an ignorant and enforce rules blindly go ahead. But since Epinephrine decided to make such a huge deal out of it and post it on virtually every forum which touches leagues on some way and in a pretty offensive manner; I, as long as quite a few other people saw the post as an attack, and I'm not one to sit around and watch my squad's pride, image or credibility get ripped up for no damn legit reason.

[Sufficient]

Sirius ... the person you should be blaming and venting your anger on is THE DOUBLESQUADDER! And I'm sorry if I'm assuming things ... but if YOU knew he was a doublesquadder, then the fault lies with you. Regroup and move on with things. Also make sure you recruit the right ppl ... and yes ... you can never be sure if someone doublesquads ... BUT USE YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT ... you have a head and a brain ... figure things out.

[brookus]

Sirius, you're only making yourself seem like a fool for arguing with this decision. From my perspective, this rule *is* black and white. It has nothing to do with intent or results.

Think of it as the "12 men on the field" rule in the NFL. A ref will call the penalty even if the 12th man is running off the field. It doesn't matter that this guy contributed nothing for his team. His team broke a rule.

By playing a player who was on two rosters, Solstice broke a rule.

llater,
Tony

[Sirius]

And I'm sorry if I'm assuming things ... but if YOU knew he was a doublesquadder, then the fault lies with you.

Why the hell would I have a double squadder consciously on my squad, especially when I know he's no good for competitive play? Ask him yourself I left him a nice message the other day..thats when he retorted with his own and mentioned that he wasn't even squadjoined to those squads anymore.

[Nimrook]

Sirius. this thing is over.. Epine and Cpt. made a good decision.. they did what they had to do.. it's final stop whining plz... u are just making yourself look bad along with your squad..

if u actually knew the person (double squadder) was still on the other squad's TWD roster, why not tell him to take his name off that squad's roster right way when he joined your squad? i dont think it will take more than 5 minutes to do that..

[Verthanthi]

Actually Sirius, when I posted it that WAS true. No one thought ill of -solstice-. But as you stir shit up about NOTHING, well, that's another story. Get it together. Independance double squaded regardless of whether that match is forfeited. Before, no one would have remembered. As you continue to rail on it, well, people will continue to think about it.

[Galleleo]

Sirius learn to quote.

[Cylor]

Well, if I may, I'd like to give at least somewhat of an arguement on Faded's behalf. I happen to be good friends with most of the people on Faded and know a lot about this situation. Rest assured, I'm not trying to justify their actions, but just letting others know the situation before they judge (*cough* Eeks and King's Sword *cough*).

Being this Faded's first season in TWL (and most likely last), they only entered the Leagues at Round 8 with that terrible record. In fact, many people left the squad throughout their time in leagues (their roster went from above twenty down to eight) and they couldn't recruit more due to the roster lock. And those eight people weren't exactly active, so it was more like four people.

So when the match against Rampage was approaching, and they realized they probably wouldn't have enough to play (as some of the members couldn't attend the match), they got desperate. They asked other people to play for their squad (I'm not sure who ended up playing, but I guess it doesn't matter now) to help them out and play on names that were ?squadjoined to Faded and on the roster. I'm pretty sure that Tiny and V0LT both played on different names and thus were considered doublesquadding.

I hope that this helped to shed some light on the matter, although it really isn't my place to speak on behalf of the squad although I'm pretty sure I'm correct in my recount.

On the other hand, everybody needs to settle down about this whole DASHsolsticeDASH (Nick <3) thing; the match is over, the decision's made and their is nothing anyone can do about it.

[bloodzombie]

I don't have time to read all of this right now, but if any of this bitching is about people getting screwed because of tiny, it's your own damn fault. Just like the people on vortex who got screwed. Look at the captain of the squad that you're joining. if he's a fucking moron, don't join.

[wadi]

Sirius, please do not use the spelling/grammar argument until you go back and edit your appeal. Frankly, it looks like something mashed out by a 4 year old, and ya I'm being mean and exxagerating, but don't play mister high and mighty unless you plan on playing by your own rules. On the subject of what you could've said In your appeal, how bout:

-He was on a TWD squad and neglected to remove himself when he joined. (Maybe you can show inactivity on his other name, or that he hadn't played in matches for that squad in X weeks. Ops can check that)

Sure it isn't much, and you might not find the answer you want (he might be doublesquadding intenionally), but it's something that might have changed the outcome of your appeal. As it stands, trying to argue with a rule that's meant to be impartial over all else isn't really an easy thing to do, nor has it appeared to pan out. By the way, it seems like you sent in your appeal without even talking to your squadmate first, and if that's true all I can say is "oops!".

you said yourself that epinephrine's been receiving flak lately for some of his decisions (which will always happen in cases where someone loses out). Heck, WR's been on the receiving end of some pretty nasty scheduling decisions and the most lagged TWLB game that was not granted a replay, and we didn't bitched half as much in the the month since that match as you have in the last day or so. Given all that, this was a chance for the TWLOPs to wave the flag a bit, to draw on something hard and say, "hey everyone! We're doing something good!", so of course he's going to go post this, more power to him.

As a squad captain it is your responsibility to go about protecting your squad against instances such as this, and "I didn't know he was a doublesquadder" only takes you so far. As mentioned in the TWD thread on doublesquadding, you can always ?help is there a mod who can help me check if so-and-so is doublesquadding? and I bet you'll get a response if someone's online. As it stands, most squadcaptains, especially those on squads who are new to twl like yourself, don't go out of their way to prevent doublesquadding before it happens. I know I've been involved in my own squad's efforts to not recruit doublesquadders, and I can only hope that we never have to deal with people who are THAT unloyal to the squad.

I hope you see this as a learning experience in your 3 year stint as a squadcaptain, and not something you can quickly write off to bad league direction. Captains are supposed to know the rules and in turn hold their squaddies responsible for them. Somewhere between yourself and Independence the lines of communication broke down, and because of that you and your squad paid the price. Leave the league ops out of this one, it's intrasquad shit

[bloodzombie]

Originally posted by wadi
As a squad captain it is your responsibility to go about protecting your squad against instances such as this, and "I didn't know he was a doublesquadder" only takes you so far.

I like to go a step further. I actually encourage double squadding on pallies. If they're logged in under some other name on some other squad, I don't have to deal with them, so I can watch my soaps and eat my bon bons in peace.

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

well, the -solstice- case does bring out some questions on if that rule really should be a black and white catch-all for all doublesquadding situations. i think that until proven otherwise, the squad captains should be assumed to have no knowledge that one of their players was a double-squadder (traditional innocent until proven guilty). there's a million schmucks in subspace and not even the most anal retentive of squad captains can keep track of them all and their bajillion (yes i just made that word up) aliases.

so, i'd like to propose an idea for an amended version of the doublesquadding rule for next season. instead of giving out the forfeit wins or losses, just remove the guilty player(s)'s stats from the game and treat it as if it was 5v4. if that player's kills were enough to turn the tide, then cool.. justice is served. if not, then the squad didn't deserve to win anyways. the point of having rules is to create and maintain a fair playing ground, NOT to give out lavish rewards for being lucky in the event that an enemy team unknowingly and unintentionally commits a mistake.

however, if the squad captain(s) are discovered to know that the double-squadding player(s) were in fact breaking rules, then and only then should you start assigning forfeits.

basically what i'm saying is that if the problem is solely the double-squadder's fault, then he should be punished and the squad should suffer a penalty equal to the impact that player had on the game. if the problem is also the captain's fault, then the whole squad should be punished. it seems like the fairest and most logical way to handle it. discuss amongst yourselves and decide if it's worthy enough to be added next season =P

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

oh by the way, that wouldn't work in the real league, TWLB, because certain ships are worth far more than their points in term of impact on a game. (example: a good shark can single-handedly win a game for you but be worth hardly anything in terms of points). however, in games where every ship is exactly the same (TWLD/TWLJ), it should work just fine.

[Sirius]

if u actually knew the person (double squadder) was still on the other squad's TWD roster

I didn't know until he told me that after I was informed he was double squadding.

it's final stop whining plz... u are just making yourself look bad along with your squad..

Jumping on the 'SOTP WHINGNI PLZ UR MAKNG USELF LUK BADD!@#" bandwagon blindly because someone else said it out of utter incoherence doesn't make the concept any more credible. I'm not whining, I'm defending my stance and perspective of the situation. If you were in my shoes (but you aren't, which is why it's not surprising you wouldn't understand), maybe you'd think of it differently.

Sirius learn to quote.

I've been quoting this way for years, and quite frankly if you are insecure enough to have to point out that someone needs to change their quoting preference just because they don't fit your ideal of quoting, I'd suggest you seek some help concerning that first.

Frankly, it looks like something mashed out by a 4 year old, and ya I'm being mean and exxagerating, but don't play mister high and mighty unless you plan on playing by your own rules.

Your hollow babble doesn't phase me to the slightest. I just copy pasted the whole appeal into a word processor and it found zero syntax, and grammar errors. By the way..just because I sound high and mighty to you doesn't mean you have to bluntly make it evident; your defensive retort does the job on it's own =P

[Sirius]

I agree with sir Gerbil on his idea. It would pacify a lot of friction between squads and authority if the operators took a more refined approach and dealt with each situation on it's own, and perhaps not count the participation of the double squadder in the match at all, which was an idea I proposed to Epinephrine as well (which was also disregarded).

Taking the ignorant approach and just disregarding the fact that perhaps in a case the squad wasn't completely guilty in the sense in which the rule implies a squad would be just makes things worse off for both sides of the coin. I could even volunteer to be part of some dept. which picks at and resolves issues such as this through logic if you guys don't want to go through the hassle, since I've done a lot of relevant work in the past while being sysop/op/head op/complaints/social admin/owner of similiar online communities. I wouldn't participate in a case in which my squad may be involved of course, to eliminate a bias viewpoint.