Double squadders caught -READ-

[Sirius]

and sirius, people don't need a dictionary if they pay attention in high school

Where does dictionary come into play in all of this?

frankly, i think you need to calm down if you want people to respond to you with respect

Calm down? Last time I checked my composure was fine.

oh, and i'm not searching for reasons to prove your argument is wrong, you are defending double squading

Yep, you just go on rambling about things out of the blue..why would I defend double squadding? Why must you be so shallow and absent minded as to take everything as black and white? Why can you not simply reason a little and figure out there is grey everywhere? But I guess as they say, ignorance is bliss.

You know, sometimes when a lot of people disagree with you, it's because you're wrong

I bet that's what everyone told the people who thought the Earth was round, back when everyone thought it was flat. You keep on thinking that buddy; heed paragraph above - as they say, ignorance is bliss.

[Randedl]

fine buddy, you said search engine, i said dictionary, i'm a bad human being. . .

Yep, you just go on rambling about things out of the blue..why would I defend double squadding? Why must you be so shallow and absent minded as to take everything as black and white? Why can you not simply reason a little and figure out there is grey everywhere? But I guess as they say, ignorance is bliss.

last i checked those aren't the words of a calm individual.

and sirius, i find it ironic that you are using "ignorance is bliss" in your defence of solstice in this whole issue. . . i mean, how were you to know he was double squadding? really?

and lightlytoasted and whoever else has brought it up, you don't need to be good to be well known. alot of people would rather recruit the guy they've never heard of going 15-2 in elim than the guy they've seen there forever who goes 9-10. eventually this is going to cost them.

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

rand, need i remind you that there is absolutely no way for captains to check if one of their players is doublesquadding or not without either the player telling them or by asking an op to verify the aliases through a bot. since players can lie and only a select few ops have access to that information (and sometimes really hard to get in touch with), occasionally shit like this will slip through the cracks. do you honestly think that any staff member has time to sit down and check if a player is doublesquadding or not anytime a captain recruits a new player? hell no. that's why i proposed the ideas to base punishments around the player's performance instead of immediately throwing an unsuspecting squad a free loss regardless of how brutally they owned the other team.

and the thought of having a player who could completely win a game for you while still getting a shitty record is pure ludicrous. no offense, but how many times has a match been decided by a player who is 3-10?

[wadi]

This discussion is quickly running itself in to the ground. The same people have yacked the same arguments at each other over and over, while others have just thrown flames for the sake of flaming. So, inorder to attempt saving this thread I'm going to try something new. I don't know if it will help, or if it will work, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

For the next 24 hours (unless epinephrine decides otherwise) this thread will be locked, and you will be unable to post. During that time, I hope everyone has a chance to cool down a bit, maybe read the other guy's arguments a little more closely, and actually consider the overall reprecussions of what has taken place, or what might have taken place had the decisions regarding these double squadders gone differently.

Like I said, don't know if this will work, but I figure, hey, it's worth a shot. Oh, and don't go counting the minutes. The thread will reopen somewhere around 24 hours, maybe 20:15, or 25:18, you won't know till it happens.

Topic Suspended - wadi

[blue goat]

dayum

Originally posted by Sirius
Well, looks like Epinephrine saved me the trouble of making a new thread.

Please note that we do not tolerate double squadders in this league and I hope this proves our dedication to the end.

Right.

As much fun as it may be to dance around howling that double squadders have been caught and getting giddy over the chance to remorselessly make an example of the evil double squadding squads, I think it's time to jump to the logic and facts, and shut the parade down.

When Epinephrine informed me that Independence was double squadding, I was also told that I could write an appeal concerning the issue to give sufficient reason towards why a pardon may be considered in this case. This implied that there was actually some information or logic that existed which could have indeed turned this event into a pardon. Regardless of what I was told though, I have a feeling my appeal was more of a trinket to fuel the bonfire with, than anything else.

Therefore, I'm going to post the appeal I sent to the Trench Wars League Operators, so that the crowd can decide for itself, granted what the appeal states, whether the decision made was sound in any way, or whether there was any reason to ask for an appeal at all, since I can quickly tell that the league op(s) are hasty to disregard any logic and the irrelevance that this particular issue has to the reason the no double squadding rule was made in the first place.

' This appeal is written in regards to the recent discovery of a double squadder on Solstice, and his unfortunate participation, as a last resort, in the league match vs No Surrender held on Sunday.

Two of Solstice's starters did not show up, therefore Solstice was to use Russian Assassin and FsTemplar as their replacements in the match. Unfortunately Russian Assassin went afk 2 minutes before the match began, and was afk when it began, and had to be subbed by the only person online, Independence. Independence lacks the caliber to be anything more than a twdd warbird, and was never meant to play in leagues - this was simply an emergency situation where there were no other options.

The weight which this appeal bears concerning legitimacy lies behind the different factors which bring the rule in question into being, and the factors which existed during the match.

The primary reason why double squadding is not allowed, is because it would cause for unfair advantages/tests of squad's strengths. The primary principle behind the league season is to determine which squad is the strongest, and can therefore win, without any fluctuation of strength between the squads. In other words, the squads should more or less remain static and exquisite to themselves. What makes certain squads more potent than others are the players they harbor. And the fact that those players are on their squad, and not on some other squad. That gives squads the edge they have. By allowing squads to have the same players under different names would be to homogenize them, and the whole concept of league play would be lost.

Having explained this, we take Solstice's situation into consideration. Solstice's situation is not parallel to the type of scenario explained above. Twd squads have no impact nor connection to the league competition in any way, shape, or form, therefore they cannot alter any outcomes of league squads or matches by any means. Being Independence was not found double squadding on another league squad, this scenario did not breach or tamper with the properties mentioned in the paragraph above, which would cause for the rule against double squadding to exist.

Once more it should be reiterated the double squadding normally has the intent of giving the accused squad(s) an advantage, that is what a punishment would be given for.

Even if we were to propose he was found on a league squad, consider this - was Independence a contributing factor to the game, in Solstice's favor, the squad being accused? Did he indeed give Solstice an advantage? If to weigh it out, it would appear Independence contributed more to No Surrender than he did to Solstice! After taking a look at his stats, it becomes clear that Independence only killed 3 people, and, so to speak, let himself be killed 10 times, giving the opponents 7 kills over his 3. Had one of the starters who didn't show up played instead of him, that starter by far would not have gotten 10 deaths easily, nor with only 3 kills of their own, considering one of the starters missing is Solstice's best wb. In fact, had all the starters been there, the match would have been closer to 50-22.

Next, we evaluate the 3 deaths with which Independence contributed to Solstice. If this was a neck to neck game, then perhaps they would be of value. But, considering one of the Solstice players, Killermech had a record of 15-1, the game by far was not even close. Had Independence never been subbed in, Solstice would have won just as well, except the 3 remaining Solstice players would have to have gotten 3 more kills each, without dying 10 times in the process. Clearly the game would have been better off for Solstice score-wise if Independence was never in the match all in all.

Therefore what would the forfeit punishment serve to punish? Our disadvantage of putting Independence in? Since clearly Independence's play only served towards Solstice's disadvantage.



As a simple user, I have no power to check for double squadders on the squad. This scenario was not intentional, nor tampered with the leagues in any form (the double squadding aspect itself, since the double squadder was on only one league squad), therefore was a simple mistake that I had no power to foresee. Granted it's neutral, unintentional, non abusive/offensive nature, it's negative impact on the accused squad, no positive advantage or value towards the accused squad, and it's deviation from any activities which truly set the non-doublesquadding rule in place, it seems only fair that this case be granted a pardon on behalf of the league administrators.


~Andy (Sirius.)'

So, judging by every explanation, justification, and shut-out of attacks or accusations towards Solstice, can anyone point out a logical reason why this appeal would fail to accomplish it's task? (Granted the fact that since I was told I could make an appeal, the appeal is supposed to have a chance to pardon the case..I'd like to see where this appeal fails to do so.)

I've been watching these forums silently, watching people bash you left and right; I'm not going to pass judgments on people concerning events which I have not witnessed myself, but I'm not going to tolerate your trash when you come onto my territory with your authority figure fiascos.

Next time I suggest you either play the total ignorant and say nothing will be able to pardon this case, or take what you get out of an appeal and apply it. Asking for an appeal when you have your mind made up concerning the condemnation of a squad just further underlines everyone's claims concerning what a sloppy, sloppy excuse for a league op is roaming around the zone playing supa cop.

Taking into consideration your incompetence with managing a position of such caliber as that which you've been assigned to, I'll give you a little hint: this is an environment with real people and real situations, regardless of the absence of physical interaction. Take a hint and learn to live up to your inherent directive of fair, non bias authority, or pack your bags and gtfo. I'm sure your mom could use some help around the house.

wow....you sound like a huge nerd, im speechless

i mean..god, damn, son.

[Cpt.Guano!]

Re: dayum

Originally posted by blue goat
wow....you sound like a huge nerd, im speechless

i mean..god, damn, son.

dont make fun of him just cause hes well spoken.

i dont think your plan worked wadi :P

[blue goat]

its not cuz hes well spoken....
dude wrote a book...in just this one topic....YOu can tell by skimming thru this forum who the real losers are by the novels they right...Showing how much they care about the game

you know, the ones where you can tell subspace is like a HUGE part of their real lives..
I cry for them

[bloodzombie]

I feel way more sad for the people who say "cuz".

[Facetious]

Is it just me, or is the appeal system more for things like, "It was so-and-so's brother" as opposed to, "the guy that was double-squadding didn't really help us that much." As far as I've heard, the rule has, in fact, always been pretty black-and-white. The real point is that there was no reason for that guy to be on Solstice. You've already said that he was pretty useless as a player, and he was obviously dumb enough not to think about the fact that he was still squadjoined to another squad. Why would you recruit a bad Subspace player that was kind of daft in an effort to compete in a league? Better recruiting certainly would have solved the problem.

In other news, Sirius, the way you quote is really fucking annoying, because you don't include the name of the person you're quoting. I don't care that it looks different, but at least make it clear who you're quoting. Maybe it's just my short term memory loss that's causing the problem, but personally, I don't care how long you've been doing it, the way you quote sucks.

[Squadless]

HOLY SHIT WOW

WOW

after reading the first post by sirius. i felt like i read a novel...

CHRIST PEOPLE JUST PLAY THE GAME, SHOOT THE SHIPS...THIS IS USELESS AND POINTLESS....

obsessing wont solve ur problems

[Vandroy]

Double squadding should be bunished by sexual harrasment

[Sirius]

Rofl.. all Wadi did was give people more shit to pick at due to the extensive waiting time, and repress everyone's feelings and ideas, basically fueling the fire - Wadi for sysop. Anyway, on with the show.

last i checked those aren't the words of a calm individual. - Randedl

Really? Hook me up with the source from which you obtained justification behind which words are calm, which aren't, and that those words I use weren't those of a [calm individual].

and sirius, i find it ironic that you are using "ignorance is bliss" - Randedl

Rofl. I didn't even say that concerning my defense of Solstice, stop using junk out of context.

wow....you sound like a huge nerd, im speechless - bluegoat

So you can tell what a person sounds like through the words he types? Sorry to dissapoint you, but having a superior diction in relevance to your incompetent one does not make someone a nerd.

Nerd - Someone who pursues or specializes in technical and/or scientific aspects, yet is socially inept.

Talk to me on the phone and we'll see who sounds like the nerd you little fairy.

who the real losers are by the novels they right - bluegoat

Learn to spell; fix your own shortcomings before you try and underline someone else's.

Showing how much they care about the game - bluegoat

It's amusing how you talk to Cpt.Guano! about all these [nerds] that play and care about the game and devote themselves to it, yet fact of the matter is, Cpt.Guano!, being high member of the staff, has an inherent responsibility to be just devoted to the game as the people you're bashing. So essentially, you're bashing him as well. Good job buddy, you'll get far in life with your shallow mind, retarded spelling, and subjective reasoning.

[Nasir]

I need my dictionary in order to read this forum.

But whats the discussion about in the end ? A squadplayer doublesquadded and played in the match. Sirius is claiming it didnt matter and thats its only a non-meaning twd squad (which sounds like he knew about that doublesquadding thing btw), others prooved him twd squads actually do affect twl. Solstice lost the match, which didnt affect their rank.

Discussion closed ?

[Fit of Rage]

Sirius. keeps asking people to not make such a big deal out of it, and how they need to "stop their complaining" when he's doing more himself. I think of TWL forum as a soap-opera of sorts.

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY SIRIUS
as they say... ignorance is bliss.

Well buddy, you sure seem to like ignorance. Because that's exactly where you reside.

Edit: I'd like to point out that DASHsolsticeDASH is 1-9, and that one win or loss in this instance will NOT affect their playoff possibilities. Save the fight for next time around.

[SLaQ n Sauce]

And now kids, you may slowly roast the meat in the juice of arrogant conceit, carefully flavored with tedious rhetoric and a dash of basil.

mmmm. it does go well with the chicken.