-Final- ?

[Sirius]

They could play TWD Eric, and get/lose points, they simply weren't counted and listed on the ladder.

[Epinephrine]

Originally posted by Eric is God
So last season when I was on Elusive and we claimed to have won TWJD and TWDD, we were lieing? I figured that the main competative element in TWD was over once teams in TWL could no longer play TWD matches. Im not arguing, just curious about how it worked last year and how it will work this year.

We just claimed to be #1, but we didn't say we won it.. because there is no winner!

-Epi

[Da1andonly]

There are squads as for example Light, who say they will win everything, and they still lose everything.

There are squads as for example Diso, who say nothing about themselves and win anyway.

It's the truth

[Eric is God]

Originally posted by Da1andonly
There are squads as for example Diso, who say nothing about themselves and win anyway.

I just assumed that was because you all had problems putting your thoughts and opinions into words

[Project]

Originally posted by PaulOakenfold
I think this season, the basing title will belong to the basing squads like last season.

Umm, a basing squad didn't win TWLB last season. Spastic did.

[Fit of Rage]

Originally posted by Project
Umm, a basing squad didn't win TWLB last season. Spastic did.

Thanks for contributing non-sensical garbage!

[Project]

Thanks for being completely blind to my thinly veiled insult!

I'll make this one easier:

Fuck you.

[Da1andonly]

yeah eric, I could've typed it all out..but it was funnier when typing it out like that...and put Light in the middle of everything.

Bwaha.

[Vandroy]

they are very good :eek:

[warportal]

Talk all you want. When them oldschool dueling squads like Elusive or Final put their minds to basing they become a nut not many can crack. The reason they usually don't end up winning the league is because they don't share the basingobsession and thus will sooner or later not bother to show full strength for a game resulting in pointsloss.

Question: Why can duelingsquads so easily transform into basingsquads but not the other way arround?

Fundamental reason ofcourse is that basing is more fun. It's a fact that it's easier to motivate a dueler to come spider in base (butcher some 'noobs' who can't dodge) than it is to motivate a baser to come hang in elim half a day.

A certain nuance (fancy european word) however of our question is needed. Not every duelingsquad can make the transition to a basingsquad. Only the duelingsquads with backbone, depth, call it what you want, are capable of this. First of all you need a few oldtimers who, besides dueling, also master a terr or a shark. Secondly the squadleaders (usually those same oldtimers) need to be capable in motivating their elim-adolescents to come play base on a regular basis. If this is managed, a good basingteam isn't far away. Decent spiders are easy to find/train in a duelingsquad (note: the best duelers can be the nastiest spiders, if they put themselves to it. (see raspi)).

A good example is Elusive of last season who put the heat on every major basing squad. Epi, Rule and vihta usually covered the vital ships. As spider, almost everyone on their roster was suitable. Demonfaze, Raspi, Treachery, etc... were defenatly more than average.
Lacked that little extra though to practise regularly and to show up full strength to all games. Ended up 5 wins - 5 losses.


P.S.: Notice how motivation is usually pretty thin with duelingsquads but deeply rooted in basingsquads. I think that if one would do quantitative surveys with the tw-population one would find that:
a. Members of duelingsquads averagly play more hours a day than members of basingsquads.
b. Members of duelingsquads are averagly younger of age than members of basingsquads.
c. Duelingsquads have averagly less in game social ties (friendship, team-spirit) than basingsquads.


kinda didn't plan on writing all this. It might make some sense though

[Escalate]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by warportal
Question: Why can duelingsquads so easily transform into basingsquads but not the other way arround?

Fundamental reason ofcourse is that basing is more fun. It's a fact that it's easier to motivate a dueler to come spider in base (butcher some 'noobs' who can't dodge) than it is to motivate a baser to come hang in elim half a day.

Hmm, more fun? Lets think about this statement, because fun is a matter of individual opinion....there are currently about 60 or so organized and active dd squads....the current basing ladder 5th place squad hasnt even reached 1100 points yet due to lack of matches. you could attribute some difference in participation to the fact that you need 8 instead of 5 ppl to base, or that it takes more practice, but these alone definitely can not explain away such a massive difference in participation level between dd and bd. bottom line: if most ppl thought basing was more fun, there wouldnt be 20 dd's played for every bd thats played.

imo, the fundamental reason why a dueling squad can base decently, but pure basing squads are crap in dueling is this:

Amount of Practice/Organization required to get good in the league:

Basing > Javing > Dueling

Amount of talent and skill required to get good in the league:

Dueling > Javing > Basing

Dueling squads have ability to practice and organize themselves into basing squads if they so desire...the top dueling and jav squads have the most talented subspace players period. One of the easiest ways to tell is that if you consider only TW players who also dominate in other zones, the vast majority of them are WB and Jav players. this makes sense because players normally enjoy playing what they are good at...since there are many factors that determine whether someone is a good baser, and theres only one factor that determines a good wb (talent), people with less talent are more likely to gravitate to basing where they can succeed with hard work/teamwork. even discarding all of the above influencing factors, the same fact can be proven by simple probability: there are 5 times as many TW players that play twdd than there are that twbd. if one out of every 100 players has the ability to be elite, then there will be 5 times as many elite WB's as basers. with dueling squads its just a matter of putting in the effort to organize and practice enough to be a decent basing squad. raw talent cannot be gained through practice or organization though, which is why you will never see a pure basing squad in the semi's or finals of a TWLD.

if elusive or rampage last season had decided months before the season that they were going to turn to pure basing, and practiced nothing else that entire time....they'd easily have owned TWBD last season.

[NaiLed]

There isn't as many basing squads as warbird squads because;
1. You need 8 players;
2. You need a good terr and sharks (most people don't know how to shark/terr,a t least not well);
3. dueling is more simple to play (all you have to do is team, dodge and shoot) whereas in basing you need your whole team to work together and there are more tactics you need to learn (pressing, cram, lining, etc). There are also more different lineups to use which make it more complex.

Overall, basing is harder to play well, and most duelers probably tried basing and sucked at it so they continue to play dueling, which is much more simple to play.

There is much more to being a base spider than shooting/dodging. Same can be said for a jav.

Amount of Practice/Organization required to get good in the league:

Basing > Javing > Dueling

Amount of talent and skill required to get good in the league:

Dueling > Javing > Basing

There is just as much talent/skill required to do well in basing as in dueling/jav, just as you need practice and organisation to do good in dueling/jav.


You say that "you will never see a pure basing squad in the semi's or finals of a TWLD." Maybe pure basing squads don't succeed in TWLD because they don't want to play dueling, not because they suck at it, but because they don't find it fun. I can't say I do.

if elusive or rampage last season had decided months before the season that they were going to turn to pure basing, and practiced nothing else that entire time....they'd easily have owned TWBD last season.

If I practiced dueling regulary I could easily become a good warbird.

[Escalate]

pretty typical response, you attacked what you felt were my weakest arguments and left the others (such as simple probability) untouched.

as i said before, SOME of the difference in participation level can be explained away by the fact that you need 8 instead of 5 and also a higher level of organization to base...i.e. you need a terr and some sharks. you dont need a "good terr" and "good sharks"... thats like saying that to wb you need "good wbs". if you dont have a good terr and good sharks you just wont be very good. just as in wb if you dont have good wbs you wont be any good...this wont stop ppl from trying. the bottom line is that none of this changes the fact that if most felt basing was more fun there would not be the MASSIVE difference in participation that we see now...especially considering that most new players start out in pub, which is in a base.

Overall, basing is harder to play well, and most duelers probably tried basing and sucked at it so they continue to play dueling, which is much more simple to play.

if this is true, how do you explain the fact that dueling squads play better in base than basers do in duel?

There is just as much talent/skill required to do well in basing as in dueling/jav, just as you need practice and organisation to do good in dueling/jav.

why? because you say so? this isnt an argument its a stated opinion with no support. i wasnt speaking in absolute terms anyways, it was a relative comparison among the three leagues.

You say that "you will never see a pure basing squad in the semi's or finals of a TWLD." Maybe pure basing squads don't succeed in TWLD because they don't want to play dueling, not because they suck at it, but because they don't find it fun. I can't say I do.

there isnt a single pure basing squad that can even compete in TWLD. but there are several dueling squads that never base once the entire off season and then decide to get into TWLB and do so easily, and then end up being a decent basing team.

If I practiced dueling regulary I could easily become a good warbird.

good wb and championship caliber wb are two different things.

i have an idea. why dont we take sika, burnt, blood, demonfaze, and banzi...5 of the top wbs i can think of quickly, and put them in a 5v5 in a completely unknown zone against the best 5 pure basers you can name and see who wins.

[Vandroy]

write a book

[Escalate]

already did, read up =P