Basing

[Galleleo]

Boss notice the :P... K, chill out

Second, who said you gotta use a jav? You can use a wb, jav, cloaker, lanc or second terr. I am mean POiD can be pretty nasty in the wb. I just wanna give the basing more flagroom fights and less cramming. yes people can chose to cram or not, but seeing as this is like the only effective thing right now, everyone will cram. And sure it is breakable, but with a jav with timing, it will be much easier and faster to break a cram, wich means more chances to get in the flagroom, wich means more flagroom fights, atleast it also means the terr will be needing more skill aswell. I mean terring in a cram isnt all that hard, you sit in entrance, and warp when you see something dangerous coming at you. Open up the base, therefore changing the base is a possiblity but then you change the whole basing. new base, we all gotta get used to it etc. I think 4 spid max, is a good way, A easy way and a way with not to many diffeculties changing the rules and stuff to make the cram weaker, and give basing some fun again. I mean all you see in .?go base these days is 4 spids with a jav. And when there are 2 captains in base who can both pick a good team, you see in go base that the matches are far more exciting. You could also clearly see this in BWC, there was more excitement.

[Fruitang]

Pallies played a 1 spider/1 javelin/3 warbird strategy in TWL against Shriek. It was most fun.

[Bosshawk]

Originally posted by Galleleo
I just wanna give the basing more flagroom fights and less cramming. ....... You could also clearly see this in BWC, there was more excitement.

again, this is a not a statement at you gall, dont take it personally, its about the words your saying

as proclaimed before the BWC, everyone wanted a 4 spider max "to eliminate the cram" : did it work? no not at all, they all crammed during BWC in almost every game, and any time anyone tried to line it got broken for fun quickly

people need to accept that if your not going to widen the mouth of the entrance, you are not going to get rid of the cram...thats the bottom line....

Defence has evolved to the cram.... you cant change evolution.... TW's has become laggy, and lining just cant stop a laggy terr and sharks from getting in easily....

if your going to broach the subject of the cram, then the map needs to be addressed, there was a few with subtle changes that at least made it easier to break the cram

hey i love flagroom fights too... but personally i just dont see a spider limit reducing the cram......

personally, i just dont understand why its so hard to adapt to the map that has a more open entrance, no bottleneck, it showed in practice games that it makes it far easier to break the cram but instead we always go back to the ship restriction

personally, i dont know why we restrict the levis either, i doubt anyone would use one anyways, but that should be their choice

[Galleleo]

Well, ya they crammed. but if you looked at the final, the cram got broken time after time by the jav. We had alot of fr fights, I am not elimiting the cram, I am trying to make it weaker.

[PaulOakenfold]

To stab and boss... this isn't about what lineup is BETTER... Spastic showed us that a 5th spider is gonna be a 4 spider with jav or wb team last season. Hell, if I wanted to beat a hard team and I knew they were doing 4 spiders and a jav/wb, I'd deffinetly go with 5 spiders. This isn't about that at all, this is about, what's going to make this more fun, enjoyable, and deffinetly more exciting.

Sure the cram is still hard as hell, and yes, possibly there WILL be games where it may only be broken ONCE, but that doesn't a jav and/or wb won't make these matches more exciting. BWC was a great example. For those of you that watched the Britain vs Benelux match, you'll have to agree, that the M_M vs Nockm matchup was exciting. The crams were barely held for more than 30 seconds, and there were constant lower and fr battles raging. I only think that a jav vs jav or wb vs wb will make the cram a slight bit more conceivable to break.

Who cares what lineup is optimal, this season should be a start to applying some rules that will start making basing just as fun as it was two seasons ago. Lining may never come back, but cram is not the final strategy, I can tell you that.

[apt]

Either allow 5 spiders, or Limit Support Ships to 1, and Fighter/Bomber Ships to 3.

A game with 1 Terrier, 1 Shark, 3 Spiders, and 3 other ships of your choice would be a lot more exciting and leave room for strategy than the current set up. Sure you could use that lineup now if you wanted, but it would be owned by a dominant unbalanced set of ships.

The current basing restrictions don't work with the unbalanced TW Settings, meaning you can't really take on a team with 5 spiders, with less than 4 spiders. Unless the opposing team is really bad, then it just becomes a matter of skill. But, nothing will be changed anyways, because the vets will cry and whine again, and the league staff will be lazy and do nothing.

But Wadi did propose a 3 ship max, and if nothing else is changed, then I am down for that.

But again, 2 shark's is limiting the possibilities of diversity in Basing.

[Jeansi]

1 shark would be cool but would lead to too many FR fights. Maybe if it had like 5 reps or so.

[apt]

FR fights are what make basing fun.

[Stabwound]

Nah, one shark would be horrible. The enemy jav would be having a hayday on your team, with like 200+ kills.

And I don't see this 4-spider rule making it any more fun. Almost every time I play a BD against a jav, the enemy team changes them to a spider in less than 5 minutes. Cram is EASIER to defend against 4 spiders/1 jav than against 5 spiders. The enemy team is essentially a man down if your sharks are good enough.

And yeah, blah blah, I know you say that it's for "fun" instead of "solving" the cram issue. But the 4 spider limit was first of all supposed to be a way to stop people from cramming (and it doesn't even do that). I don't see how it's going to be more "fun" when a team is stuck with a jav that is almost useless to their team.

[Galleleo]

Stab, ya a cram is easier against 4 spids and a jav when you have 5 spids cramming, the point is that everybody has 4 spids and a jav, wb, lanc or whatever.

you are talking about the current situation where teams can have 5 spiders. I dont see any reason to whine from spas. you guys have AE, who is one of the better base javs.

[Mootland Farmer]

Make basing 9 on 9, but the 9th ship can only be lancaster or weasel.

[Stabwound]

I don't whine about anything for Spastic. From day one I have opposed this 4 spider limit because I think teams should have the choice to pick whatever lineup they want. Making a change this drastic is just a "quick and easy" fix that is supposed to make the game more fun. I really don't think it will.

I really like the idea someone mentioned about lowering the spiders rate of fire. This would probably make a lot of squads opt for a warbird or jav, instead of a spider. Instead, you rather have this FORCED upon everyone. Why not tweak the problem, instead of just using no thought and just putting a spider limit...

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by Galleleo
Stab, ya a cram is easier against 4 spids and a jav when you have 5 spids cramming, the point is that everybody has 4 spids and a jav, wb, lanc or whatever.

you are talking about the current situation where teams can have 5 spiders. I dont see any reason to whine from spas. you guys have AE, who is one of the better base javs.

It's not about whining ... is having the freedom to choose whatever strategy you think ur team can do best in. The fundamentals come to the fact that we've had this basing map for so long ... AND ... the ship settings are inherently unbalanced. Again, I say give more freedom to play whatever ships the teams decide ... AND/OR change the base to accomodate more aspects of the game ... I think we need a fresh basing map anyways =/ ...

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by wadi
this needs to be taken more seriously when you discuss changing the rules.

What do you think of a three player max for all ships? That includes terrs and sharks.

Intereting idea here ^ ...

[Sufficient]

Originally posted by apt
FR fights are what make basing fun.

That's why we should change the base map ... like I said before ... there are so many aspects of the game that can be changed just with tweaking around with the current map ... add multiple entrances, an inbase asteroid field, more jav shot holes, warp doors, bursting holes, bigger and more complex FR (<-- I'd like this).