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  • #76
    My humble opinion on the 5 spiders lineup and cramming.

    The 5 spiders-lineup:

    Just because it's the easiest lineup to play with doesn't make it the most powerful. Except of course when you're playing with people you've never played with before. And since all these new squads play more games a week than the 'old' ones do in a month this shouldn't really be the issue.
    Cramming and the 5-spiders lineup are connected of course. Because everyone thinks cramming is the best strategy, which it of course isn't, people automatically assume the lineup it was first played with, 5 spiders, is the strongest aswell. A problem is that the basing community has grown very uninventive, they just do what everyone else does instead of searching for something that is more powerful than the one everyone does.
    The 5 spiders bring a huge disadvantage to your team even when just cramming all game, and especially when you try and play with different strategies. It's pretty simple actually, if you got 3/4 spiders (depends on how good they're) the job for the spiders is already covered, the 5th one hardly has to do anything. I bet if you can keep a cram up with 5 spiders you can keep it up with 4 spiders aswell.
    A jav/wb though brings new approaches to the game and puts a lot more pressure on the enemy than that another spider will ever do. The only problem is that your team now will need to work TOGETHER with a completly different ship, and before you can do that you need to know that ship aswell. This might cost some time before the teaming is as good as with 5 spiders. But again with the half year break between the seasons this isn't really a problem.


    Cramming:

    The problem is that the basing community (who in my book are not known for being strategists) all seem to believe this one easy, dumb-minding, strategy is the most powerful one, cramming. But never does anyone think of playing with different strategies in one match. Adapt during the game, change your strategy, cramming to lineing to pushing the enemy out of base again. For me cramming is just a station between a won flagroom battle and taking the fight to lower base. And the last one is what it's really about. Do you really wanna win purely on hoping that the enemies attacking-skill and attention span ain't very good/high or do you wanna show your own strenght by pushing them as far out as you can?


    Conclusion:

    I think for new squads it's useful to play with 5 spiders, it gives them their best chance against the better squads, since it's the easiest lineup to begin with. But established squads should try to use more of their strength, be more inventive. First you will probably realise cramming becomes even more powerful with a good wb/jav and a team that 'knows' their strenghts and weaknesses > learn to work together with different ships.
    Also show your strenght instead of being so damn boring and defensive. By being defensive you'll never conquer the universe.
    I of course do realise not many to none will agree with me that disagreed with me before (in other words this is a waste of time), so I guess in the end the only way to realise basing will improve is by forcing squads to play with 4 spiders. But I'd hate to do that because I will never say that 5 spiders is the most powerful.
    Last edited by Dabram; 01-25-2004, 07:48 AM.

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    • #77
      Y not reply on a thread that's already there?!
      I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal...

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      • #78
        merged.

        and bram, I don't think the TWL-6 and TWL-5 seasons would back your argument.
        Last edited by wadi; 01-25-2004, 08:22 AM.

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        • #79
          Yay... one shark... javs for 200 + recs... sharks for 100+ recs... fr battles for 30 seconds long.

          There are 2 sharks for a reason... this was brought up a LONG time ago I might add, and I hope the sense of everyone that's been basing hasn't changed so much as to change one of the most basic things of basing... which is shark teamwork with the spiders.

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          • #80
            How about allow sharks to green to L3 bombs ... that would be fun
            Wont die, no surrender 2

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            • #81
              Re: My humble opinion on the 5 spiders lineup and cramming.

              Originally posted by Dabram
              The 5 spiders bring a huge disadvantage to your team even when just cramming all game, and especially when you try and play with different strategies. It's pretty simple actually, if you got 3/4 spiders (depends on how good they're) the job for the spiders is already covered, the 5th one hardly has to do anything. I bet if you can keep a cram up with 5 spiders you can keep it up with 4 spiders aswell.
              Totally.
              5:royst> i was junior athlete of the year in my school! then i got a girlfriend
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              • #82
                if 5th doesnt mean anything i guess you can start basing other squads 7vs8 right?

                Mirror <ZH> omg it shark
                Mirror <ZH> this sucks
                Server> dont worry mirror
                Server> shark fits your tits
                Peace <ZH>> shut up
                Peace <ZH>> i do not apperciate you talking to my girlfriend in that manner

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Server
                  if 5th doesnt mean anything i guess you can start basing other squads 7vs8 right?

                  The fifth is golden when it gets you a one man advantage.
                  6:megaman89> im 3 league veteran back off

                  Originally posted by Dreamwin
                  3 league vet

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                  • #84
                    From the 6 or 7 games I played so far with this 4 spider limit, it is really great. We played squad wich we played beforet his limit and games were lots closer and more frfights, more td's closer scores. We even broke spas cram alot easier then we did before. I think this is a succes. And I dont think many people can deny it didnt make it more fun and interesting.
                    Maybe God was the first suicide bomber and the Big Bang was his moment of Glory.

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                    • #85
                      I know I'm in the minority, but I disagree.

                      I'm on a squad that barely ever uses 5 spids, and I think the other guys can all use whatever they want.
                      http://www.trenchwars.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15100 - Gallileo's racist thread

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                      • #86
                        Wewt thanks for solving our elite-spider shortage!

                        I just came to think that the best way to get rid of a good cram is to blow it up with a jav.

                        The cram isn't much of a problem, it's just the stage between losing lower and a flagroomfight.
                        The main problem was that the old squads (with the members that have(had) their hand in everything) weren't around in pre-season to see what the tactics of the new squads were.
                        When I started basing (just after season 5) I knew there had been some really good squads competing in that league, but it seemed like they all vanished.
                        So the olders squads kind of got surprised by the tactic, and only now the cram is losing some of it's strenghts.
                        As any tactic it will show its weakeness, if you encounter it enough.

                        I think the 4-spider max is a good idea. A jav is a good ship to break a cram with, but not every squad can afford to switch a spider for a javelin. Maybe because they don't have a jav good enough to compete in a flagroomfight or maybe because 5 spiders gives an advantage over 4 spiders + 1 jav in any other situation but the cram.
                        Forcing the 4-spider rule at least rules out the last situation.
                        If a squad doesn't have a jav good enough to compete with a spider (they are now forced to use that jav anyway) can still make it up with having better spiders.

                        The problem before was that no other ship had the killrate like the spider. Ofcourse you have a few of the talented javpilots, but then still you are talking about above average players, that would have the same result with a spider. That will be solved now. So even the warbird is an option now.

                        It would be nice to try to get the lancaster tuned that it can compete with the warbird or javelin.
                        A good change would maybe be: 1600 or 1800 energy (with the bullet energy staying the same) and an reduced delay, so when the lanc shoots and gets a full charge can shoot again.
                        I don't believe Multifire can be initial, but it should be.
                        You ate some priest porridge

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                        • #87
                          I laugh in the face of all javs.

                          hah, anyways, you might be surprised how well a good Jav can compliment a solid cram. It's always nice when your jav does a shot from the little holes in the middle, taking out 4-5 enemies so that your team can push down into the middle again. On the other hand, it's not rare for your jav to fuck up and tk your entire team, or take your energy down to 20 so a random stray bullet can pick you off.

                          I also agree with maybe altering the settings of the lancaster to make it a more viable basing ship. With it's current recharge rate it just isn't any good.
                          sdg

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                          • #88
                            I agree ... plz make the lancaster a more viable ship. Weasel too, if it's possible.

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                            • #89
                              I havent really read all this but is it "more fun basing with 4 spider limit" vs "we got alot of pride and want to show that we can beat 5 spiders" and "ability to pick whatever i want stfu dont make more rules"?
                              Originally posted by Tyson
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                              • #90
                                Basicly "4 spiders make basing more fun" vs "that stfu bla bla rules. bla bla"
                                Maybe God was the first suicide bomber and the Big Bang was his moment of Glory.

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