Lag Limit Should Be 500 ms

[Copy!?!]

Isn't subspace suppose to be a free game that people can play almost with any hardware and connection? When server was in Finland no one limited the laggy american players(about 300ms on dialup average not to mention High'ð) please do not take away playing for the euros now. Show me one player who wasn't laggy before server move and sucked but now is good because of lag. There aren't any and infact for me lag only makes me suck more. My usual lag has gone from 30ms and almost no packet loss to 240 ms with high of about 400 ms and 2% ploss

Edit...When server was still in Finland didn't TWD have same ploss limit as pubs? 13% and no slow ploss bullshit? Make the limit 300 average spikes to 500 and 5% packet loss kthx

[Cig Smoke]

Stab i agree, but ur still being VERY unfair to those ppl. It isnt there fault where they were born or what they can afford. I dont think this game should discriminate against them ppl. U dont need to rise the limits that much, hell i dont care if we rise them at all bc either way i can play, but i just think that its not fair. And i played w/ 500-550 ms i'll tell u now, playing w/ that is 100 times harder then playing w/ 100 ms, it is also ezier to be on 20 ms killing a guy w/ 400 ms, then it is for u w/ 500 ms to kill someone else. trust me it is alot worst for the lagger. U also have to remember like copy said, the high spikes are the problem.

[RabbitRapist]

400 is a good starting place for the limit. I think over time the rules will evolve to lower that limit. I think about 250 would give better games.

-RR

[Cig Smoke]

I agree, it would give better games, but even myself a guy who gets 20 ms .1 .1 gets a high spike of 200 - 250 sometimes.

[Stabwound]

250ms is way too slow of a limit. That would exclude a lot of the less-laggier 56k players.

[Sufficient]

My stance is that leagues is absolutely not a place for bad / laggy connections. It's supposed to have a focus on fun, but also competition. You cannot get fair competition with a max ping limit at 500 or even 400. TWD is more debatable since it's still competitive, but it's the intermediate btwn pub and league. As for pub, whatever the ping limits or ploss limits are now seem fine. 56kers should be able / allowed to play in pub almost regardless of connection.

However, as more and more ppl upgrade to better connections, TW should also make these lag limits stricter. It's like if you're a programmer who comes out with a program. Nowadays no one at all caters to windows 3.1 or windows 97, 98. That's bc the OS is getting better (yeah yeah insert your MS jokes here) and better. In the same way, don't expect TW to cater to 56kers in a yr or two when the majority of players will probably have cable connections.

[Cig Smoke]

I agree, but i still think there is a fair amount of ppl who use 56k still. And ppl DanyalDenyo i know has cable connection, yet u know how he lags. And like Hannes, he jsut said he has a better connection yet he still lags. There are wierd things, but ur rite about the compatition stuff. I think maybe TWD should be a lil higher then TWL, that way atleast the laggies can play TWD.

[Nethila]

Cig, stab has the point. Even though he lags :P but Hirluin's lag is way worse than his. 400ms lag limit is a good start. 300ms would be better. Hir, raising the lag limit to 500ms is asking too much. On your screen, you might not see those bullets or bombs, and it's not your fault. But to us, we can see you eat 10 bullets, ram through 2 mines and can still fire as a wb. That's rather annoying. It cause alot of problems: First, you cause the enemy spiders to waste a lot of energy on you. Second, after all those eats, your enemy might assume you have no enery left to shoot, but BOOM, u shot and killed their terr and cost the game. Lag should be tolerated, BUT not to the level you are asking.

and that's not just for basing, but also for duelling and javing.

[Copy!?!]

Subspace isn't a top game that follows time, it was made for 28,8kbps connections and should be still playable with that kind of connection especially in zone like trench without fast ships and full screen of bombs.

[Cig Smoke]

Neth, u have to remember Hir probably has alot of hits on u guys that dont die, and repeld bombs and bursts that no one else sees but he dies to, or mines that are only seen by him bc of the lag that someoen rams andhe dies to. Grant its a pain to see him hop like that, and i agree in basing its worst then in DD/JD, but it istn like its all heaven for him.

[Luckily Yours]

well, i dont care how poor u are seriously.... just dont want u ruining my game with uor lag. so regardless of being a lag inducer or being poor, all laggers should be treated alike, thus all to spec now.

but this is never gonna happen, since we would have all spastic in spec.

[Cig Smoke]

Ur quite selfish and rude sounding.... Im sure if u were the guy laggin and being excluded from leagues u wouldnt be saying that.

[Fit of Rage]

Stab already said everything I wanted to. Shit.

[Miku19]

Originally posted by Copy!?!
Subspace isn't a top game that follows time, it was made for 28,8kbps connections and should be still playable with that kind of connection especially in zone like trench without fast ships and full screen of bombs.

So, you're saying the requirements are the same as they were in the beginning, while the player base of tw has multiplied by 30 or something?

[apt]

Subspace since the beggining of time, was made for Dial up Connections. Few people started buying DSL and Cable, thus Random damage was created, because the faster connection would ignore the slower connections packets, so they thought that it would be better for a bullet to hit for double when it hit the faster connection instead of set damage.

Subspace was meant for modems, Dial up Users DO NOT, and I emphasize, DO NOT have an advantage of anyone else. Maybe except for the Javelins rocket, there is no superiority to using dial up. Their Bullets are ignored, their bombs are ignored, their repels are ignored. Yet they take everything from you. I have used both sides of the spectrum from 28.8 to Cable, for months at a time, and Cable DEFINETLY makes you the better player.

I for one use Dial up and it connects at 28.8 for some reason, god knows why. And I get pings from 180 to 260. When in flag room battles my ping tends to go to up 350, but for some reason in TWBD games, it goes up even higher. And this is just instantenous and lasts for less than 1-2 seconds. I think the game needs to be more curteous to spikes, and only spec one for spikes that last longer than 3 seconds. And I know the game is quite capable of that, as well as the bots. The game was created for Dial Up users, and it is a free game, we already take enough shit from the cable modem users, who are having their mommys pay for their connection. Losing a BD game because you spiked with a 420 ping is ridiculous, especially one that lasts for less than half a second, plus it isn't even a visual spike. Raise the spike limits to 500 over a 3 second period. And Begin a visual lag rule in TWL, most respected Subspace leagues have one, I'm curious as to why TWL doesn't. Plenty of players who have massive visual lag, are still somehow within limits, and are obviously using either external forces to create the lag, or have some other unknown lag that the bot and ingame engine doesn't spec for.