Next event?

[Steadman]

I should also add that removing the star cap makes it easier to captain, draft, sub, trade, etc. The league becomes less volatile from poor ratings and simpler as a whole. Also possible to use the subbing system where some teams wait while others play like we did in this basing cup in case of no-shows.

[Riverside]

I'm not advocating for any changes in TWLB or Basing Cup. Cram breaking was absolutely incredible in TWLB 2021. The amount of FR fights was A+ in both TWLB and Basing Cup. There wasn't much issue in TWDT-B from 2004 to 2018. It's the star cap.

So fixing one or the other would be sufficient. Either going back to Star Slot TWDT or fixing the cram...

Can you remind me what star slot twdt looks like? Its been a minute and/or i didn't play it.

[Riverside]

I think we shud also remove specials from TWDT. It makes it less fun for everyone except the person playing the wb/jav/lanc, and sometimes the teammates if they're not patient and/or winning/temporarily benefiting.

Sorry ease, I know you've won your only basing leagues with last minute laggy ship changes but it's what I think.


Edit: alternatively there could be an !allowspecials command for the bot (whether for twd or twdt), where 1-3 players from both teams have to agree to specials. Keeping specials makes multi ship ratings in base 1.5x or 2x more tedious but up to everyone else. This is also additional coding work, tho not sure how much.

[ogron]

Can you remind me what star slot twdt looks like? Its been a minute and/or i didn't play it.

Sure (I'll adjust for ratings inflation and bump the stars up 1*)

TWDT 2018

WB/Jav:

Max slot
Max slot
9* slot
8* slot
7* slot

You can play anyone in the max slots, and the 8* slot you have to play someone 8* or below

Base:

Max slot
Max slot
Max slot
Max slot
9* slot
8* slot
8* slot
7* slot

So lines in 2021 would look like this:

WB:

Saiyan 10*
ro 9*
Tripin 9*
ardour 8*
Bigking 7*

Base:

Frozen Throne 9*
Commodo 10*
Azuline 8*
Dreamwin 10*
ro 10*
TJ Hazuki 9*
Bellflowers 8*
Tiny 7*


The system worked great for years, but in like the weakest TWDT season of all-time, zidane got the #1 draft pick and took Ease so they had Ease/zidane in the max slots in TWDT-J and triple crowned and Mythril lost both finals to them, and then ran TWDT in 2019 and introduced the star cap system in response.

It basically ran into the problem of zidane getting the #1 pick and selecting Ease in a weak draft, where a 10* cap takes a 10*.

You could easily mitigate this by making the second max slot a 9.5 slot and keeping the 5 truly broken players in wb/jav apart or something.

You can make it anything you want, the point is that the star cap has a cascading effect. Someone misrated in a star slot only impacts that 1 spot in your lineup.

You could make it 10/9.5/8/8/7 in WB/Jav too, or w/e you want.

Star Slots > Star Cap

[Riverside]

Sure (I'll adjust for ratings inflation and bump the stars up 1*)

You could easily mitigate this by making the second max slot a 9.5 slot and keeping the 5 truly broken players in wb/jav apart or something.

You can make it anything you want, the point is that the star cap has a cascading effect. Someone misrated in a star slot only impacts that 1 spot in your lineup.

You could make it 10/9.5/8/8/7 in WB/Jav too, or w/e you want.

Star Slots > Star Cap

How many below 7 star players did we have playing last TWDT? I couldn't find the TWDT stats sheet after looking for 99 secs.

cud use that clean screenshot rite about now.

Im indifferent about star slots vs star caps.

I do care about removing people below 7. Theres an opportunity to distribute those players evenly across teams. And there theres an opportunity for a league that moves lets say, 1 out of 10 players from 6.5 to 7, and 1 out of 10 players from 6 to 6.5.

wilder shit has happened in tw.

[Riverside]

Another suggestion:

If draft order is random (which i have not confirmed so this could be from a decade ago and im overreacting)

Draft order being random would make sense to me if all of the captains were of similar value. We have ratings that tell us otherwise. Somehow caps who have 9s or 10s across the board were picking before 8s.


Consider basing a captain's draft # based off the captain's * value (the captain gets to choose what pick # they want to draft at: first pick isnt necessarily the best pick).

If there's a tie in * value, then perhaps randomize.

If you want to consider a captain's past history winning, perhaps do so when there's that tie in * value, instead of randomizing.

[Jessup]

Star Slot or Star Cap... both should be completely done away with in TWDT. Go back to how draft league used to be before all this confusing limiting stuff. I've seen so many teams win seasons based off broken ratings where they got the better end of the deal. This is NOT competitive gaming using a star system of any type. Let teams pick their players , make the lines they see fit and may the best win.

[Iron]

Twdt no star cap or Last option ogron format

[Wirah]

fix the cram and remove a block on each side

We should put a 2-less-block map in BD2 or BD3 and play a few rounds, but I think this is a great solution to creating more dynamic games.

I've removed the blocks in ?go twbd2.

There were two on each side in TWBD. I removed them all. LMK if you want to keep 1 single block on each side or just keep it flush.

[Rab]

old thread with discussion and alternative map options:
https://forums.trenchwars.com/main/1...n-one-twbd-map

[ogron]

old thread with discussion and alternative map options:
https://forums.trenchwars.com/main/1...n-one-twbd-map

yeah turban had the same thought as me... you just remove 1 block each side and problem solved.

same great flagroom battles, same burst shots, same everything except less of the un-fun crap (cram/cream break)



regardless of format, the next TWDT should definitely try this map out for a season and see how it goes.

if for some reason it doesn't work out you can change it back early on (im pretty sure rab is wrong and that this benefits the breaking team, but maybe there's a 2% chance he's right and the block ends up benefitting the crambreakers as the terr can hide there)

[saiyan]

There's no need for requiring a certain amount of 8*s, for example. Just increase the amount of teams and the talent is more widespread. We should call it something else though to differentiate it from TWDT which caters more toward inclusivity.

That would have the unwanted side effect of lowering the skill level of games even further. It's already pretty low in twdt.

You could make it 10/9.5/8/8/7 in WB/Jav too, or w/e you want.

Good insights regarding star slots vs star cap. I'm with you on the star slots.. But I have one concern.

It seems to me you didn't have .5 ratings back when the star slot twdt was running. So assuming players were rated correctly, an optimal max/max/9/8/7 slot lineup would only exclude 6s.

Now, with 10/9.5/8/8/7 slots for example, an optimal line would exclude 9s, 8.5s, 7.5s, 6.5s, and 6s. They would only be added due to availability issues or poor ratings. No idea what to do, but I estimate removing .5s would just re-introduce broken-ness.

[ogron]

saiyan yeah, there were no .5 ratings.

i don't have a great solution off the top of my head, but my first instinct would be:

10/9/8/8/7 star slots

Captains can pick 2 slots in any match to go .5 over

So you can go 10/9.5/8/8/7.5 or 10/9/8.5/8.5/7

Theoretically 50% of players should have a .5 rating and having 2 of the 4 non-10* slots able to go up .5 should adequately cover the population distribution and not leave .5s hanging.

[RageRitual]

We just had a no star draft (although only basing) with basingcup, and twl is around the corner, we should probably do a regular dt between the two no? Yea 6 and 7 star players are pretty bad, but if were being honest it's a lot of those 6 and 7 star players keeping the zone alive. Most 10* players go inactive between events. I am not against the idea of no star drafts, and there are some good points made in this thread, but we should be doing events for low * players too.